Currently I'm doing a systematic build up method:

役
役人
使役
退役
取締役
etc

All of the kanji besides 役 were learned in the same fashion, so the only vocab I input into the flashcards are those with previously known kanji(full on/kun knowledge), and thats how I progress. If I come across a word with a new kanji for me, I'll input a group of about 5-6 words making sure there are both on/kun readings in the group. As for the "answer" side I just put one word synonym in japanese or a one word english translation that I like.

This is basically my quick deck that I run 200 reviews a day(apart from the real cards which have expressions and japanese definitions). Since its more of a way to learn readings than definitions with actual subtleties I plan on doing this to build up quick although shallow vocabulary so I don't waste time wondering readings when I'm actually reading anything. I just HATE HATE HATE spending time deciphering definitions off dictionaries or not knowing how to read(and therefore write on my computer quickly) something I see in a magazine/tv show.

My vocabulary evolves when I see a bunch of text with words that I can't read. I start to add sentences for these words in my SRS with readings and definitions for the words that are not so easy to figure out.

Now the definitions are just a cut and past from sanseido.net, but before that, it was a loose translation from english. That limited me to only use sentences with a premade translation, but it was safe and effective.

The nice thing of selection your words from context is that you start to create a few islands of vocabulary where you can survive before learning a bit more.

For instance. If you are starting to read certain manga, in the beginning, you'll have a lot of trouble, but soon enought, the words start to show up again and again.
It will be the time to make a choice: To keep on enjoying the series or start reading another one and learn more vocab. ^_^

Erubey Wrote:Currently I'm doing a systematic build up method

Me too. I've described my method in a previous post, but I think nobody read it, so I'll describe it again here. I have a set of what I call 'active kanji', and a set of what I call 'active words', which is basically the set of all words that use only active kanji. Everyday I add a few new kanji to the active kanji set and see what new words I get.

Example:
Active kanji: 大 学
Active words: 大きい、学ぶ、大学

Now, if I add 生, I get:
New words: 生きる、大学生

The word list comes from EDICT (popular entries) and the filtering is done by a little Ruby on Rails application I created. It has a nice exporting feature, so I don't even need to type the cards into Anki. The only tedious part is looking up the pitch accent on goo.ne.jp.

Quote:Since its more of a way to learn readings than definitions with actual subtleties I plan on doing this to build up quick although shallow vocabulary so I don't waste time wondering readings when I'm actually reading anything.

I too am doing this primarily for the readings, specially for the corner cases like 外 外す 外に 外人, so I don't even bother including sentences in my cards. (edit: Nevermind that. I now include sentences for most cards.)

Note 1 - I do both kana to kanji and kanji to kana cards. Kana to kanji cards are high priority, so they always come up first in Anki, which makes learning the readings way easier, in my opinion.
Note 2 - About the pitch accent, I color green the kana corresponding to the accented mora.
Note 3 - I use katakana if the kanji uses the on'yomi reading. Eg: 大台 -> おおダイ.
Note 4 - Here's what the cards look like.

Systematic vocab seems a mighty boring way to study, and ensure burnout. I recommend studying from established lists tuned to your skill level. JLPT, textbook lists, 漢字検定 (systematic but at least they are ordered by skill level), lemma frequency list (from the internet corpus not the newspaper one) etc.

You can't learn vocab the way you learned kanji, there is just way too much. Do you really want to wait until you know every jukugo for every kanji before you can become productive? Learn every jukugo for 一 before you can move onto 二?

I also make no effort to learn pitch or if a reading is on or kun. I learn pitch just from lots of interaction with natives, and on/kun becomes clear after you learn a lot of vocabulary.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Do you really want to wait until you know every jukugo for every kanji before you can become productive? Learn every jukugo for 一 before you can move onto 二?

You don't need every compound. Just a few for each kanji reading / meaning.

Quote:You can't learn vocab the way you learned kanji, there is just way too much.

If you add 10 compounds for each kanji, that's 20,000 words. Not that much, really.
Also, because the list was systematically built up, it is way easier to learn.

Personally, I would recommend people to learn common and important words first. Learning systematically has strenghts, but IMO it isn't worth it. Japanese is a language, languages are made for using. Reading, writing, conversing. Learning systematically seems more like... some form of administrative hobby. Doing it to be doing it, not for any practical use.

I'd say, learn everything needed for JLPT1, THEN go systematic if you prefer. At that point, you know enough Japanese to get around in pretty much any situation and the vocabulary you learn from then on won't be critical to your future Japanese probably, so the order is way less important.

I'm still going strong on KO. I feel it's a good core of high frequency words, and is presented about as systematically as can be done. Then I'm going to do what tobberoth suggests and fill in any jlpt vocab I don't have, probably using the Read The Kanji site.

iSoron Wrote:If you add 10 compounds for each kanji, that's 20,000 words. Not that much, really.
Also, because the list was systematically built up, it is way easier to learn.

You'll find there are kanji that are only used for one word, or only a couple useful words. You'll need to learn more words for some kanji than others.

yukamina Wrote:

iSoron Wrote:If you add 10 compounds for each kanji, that's 20,000 words. Not that much, really.
Also, because the list was systematically built up, it is way easier to learn.

You'll find there are kanji that are only used for one word, or only a couple useful words. You'll need to learn more words for some kanji than others.

I know. This is only a rough estimation.

I have to say I only did this recently, as in I already had a foundation of vocabulary. There are gaps of course, what about all those words without kanji? Well, I use the sentence method for those.

I'm pretty sure this method doesn't work for everyone, but I've got 1,000+ new words learned that I truly do know in the past 3 weeks, and it wasn't even hard!

I'm with the AJATT method. I learn about 20-80 words a day.

It's quite amazing, I know 10 days later, I'm going to know about 500 new words. It's amazing.

Squintox Wrote:I'm with the AJATT method. I learn about 20-80 words a day.

It's quite amazing, I know 10 days later, I'm going to know about 500 new words. It's amazing.

Sounds like it'd be a real B!^|^(# to review

kazelee Wrote:

Squintox Wrote:I'm with the AJATT method. I learn about 20-80 words a day.

It's quite amazing, I know 10 days later, I'm going to know about 500 new words. It's amazing.

Sounds like it'd be a real B!^|^(# to review

Depends on how the cards are and what his reviewing policy is like. If he just focuses on the word/grammar point itself it wouldn't be too bad.

Squintox Wrote:I'm with the AJATT method. I learn about 20-80 words a day.

It's quite amazing, I know 10 days later, I'm going to know about 500 new words. It's amazing.

20 to 80 is a big gap. If it is 80 that means you are adding 80 cards and passing 80 cards(maybe not the same) that same day. IE, a ton of reviewing. This is why I'm doing this build up method, since it takes less time and gives a lesser understanding of the word, but that is later enforced when I do use them in a sentence...which isn't a 80 card a day thing.

This is simple, at least i think it is after completing hesig. Personally (like many others) I just find a sentence with a word (preferably only one) that I dont know and put it into the SRS. You eventually see it so much that is starts to pop out when people say it and if you are lucky you yourself will catch yourself using it. I actually never TRY to use the word...it just comes out after a while of reviewing it. About the 20-80 words/sentences a day. I am going through KO and I do about 15-30 sentences a day(production and recognition)...and good god the reviews are destroying me. If you have anything other than japanese study going on in your life it gets really hard to keep up dont u think?