Hello to everyone!
I'm planning on doing the RtK1 book during this academic year.
This is not the first time I've attempted this - I discovered RtK a few years ago, when I was still in high school. I became attracted to the idea, but unfortunately English is not my mother tongue (I'm Polish).
Seeing that I wasn't very proficient with English language, and RtK features some rather obscure words as keywords, I decided to translate the keywords on the go, and learn the Polish ones. With help of English dictionary, kanji dictionary and RtK indexes (to avoid any possible collisions) I managed to go quite far (somewhere above 1000 kanji). However, later I lost my motivation somehow, and stopped; now I probably won't remember most of them.

So now I wonder - should I start learning with the English keywords or go with the ones I already managed to translate?

If I go with the Polish ones, I think (re)inventing the stories would be easier, because I simply know more Polish than English :) What's more, I have all the flashcards I made, and learning would be easier because I already did half of the book once.

On the other hand, a few years passed and I know English better. Despite my best efforts many keywords I translated are probably more or less inaccurate. If I go with English, I will also have access to many good resources like printable flashcards (with non-ugly kanji, unlike mine I wrote by hand) and this site :) (By the way, is there an option to review in the opposite order - see kanji, guess keyword?)

So, those of you who don't know English as a first language. Is it going well? Is it hard to remember and use English keywords? Should I give it a try or stick to what I did before?

Hi,
My native language is (Swiss) German, but my English is good enough for most of the keywords. I had to look up a few of Heisig's keywords, but that's actually a good way to improve my English while learning Japanese. I use the Substitute keyword Greasemonkey script to sometimes add German translation or English synonyms to the keyword.

IMHO the bigger problem for Europeans will be those stories or keywords which are US-centric:

US culture (baseball, Thanksgiving/turkey)

children's songs and stories ("little engine that could"? "jack horner"?)

plants that are not native to Europe (mulberry comes to mind)

But I can say that I don't regret doing the English keywords instead of using the German book. As there's no Polish version AFAIK, I think you should just use the English words. But you should look up some example phrases of the kanji to make sure that you're learning the right meaning.

My native language is Swedish, but I consider myself fluent in English so I had no qualms about going with the English keywords. (Besides, there's no way Remembering the Kanji has been released in Swedish, we are used to having English learning material).

I used English too. In my opinion if you can understand most of the keywords than you're good to go. It's certainly not worth the time to translate them all. The translations are not going to be very accurate and, most of all, you risk conflicts with future keywords you haven't studied yet.
As far as I've read, quite a few kw are uncommon even for native English speakers.

I had that problem too, but after talking with people here from the forum it seems that even the natives did not knew some of the vocabulary used in RTK.

I took it as an oportunity to improve my english.

Sure... Words like beguile, bequeath, awl, abet, dwindle, entice etc. are quite hard to understand for non-native speakers. I sometimes fail a kanji because I do not remember what the english word means (even if the kanji is still fresh in memory).

Even if translating all of the keywords is not necessarily useful, Greasemonkey scripts may be helpful to add subtitles to the hard ones.

I think the best way would be to use a Polish-Japanese dictionary to search for words that use the same kanji. It will help to find out how the kanji is used.

Personally, I often find it easier to remember kanji for keywords I do not know, simply because my whole knowledge of the word is based on this site and that kanji. For example, I had never heard "quandary" but I knew the word 困る long before I came to this site... so my story was simple "Quandary means 困る, and a tree stuck in a box sure is 困る" or something like that. When ever I see the keyword, I try to remember what quandary means, and 困る jumps into my head.

Now that you said that, I dont remember what quandary means, but I remember the kanji. Lol.

"Quandary" is a state/situation that is complicated and any decision you make will be difficult. You're often doubting yourself since aren't good solutions.

In other words, you're screwed and you simply don't know what to do.

Whow, it is quite close to the meaning of 困る !

gruikya Wrote:Sure... Words like beguile, bequeath, awl, abet, dwindle, entice etc. are quite hard to understand for non-native speakers.

Beguile - to enchant, to persuade with one's charms, but usually in a good way. "She beguiled everyone with her sunny smile."

Bequeath - Give:receive :: bequeath:inherit. To give something to someone in your will.

Awl - A pointed instrument, usually with a rounded wooden handle, used to punch holes in leather. The rounded end fits into your palm so you can push harder than if you held it in your fingers. Louis Braille was blinded as a child in an accident with an awl (his father was a shoemaker).

Abet - To help, usually in a criminal act.

Dwindle - To become less and less until it is nothing. Usually said of supplies while on a trip.

Entice - To lure, often with a promise of something desirable. "He enticed people away from their former jobs with offers of huge bonuses."

Japanese isn't the only thing we can help each other with in this forum ;-)

All this seems pretty optimistic... I was afraid mostly of not being able to imagine a vivid story in case of words I don't know well, but seeing your responses I think I'll try it.
Thanks especially for the Greasemonkey script link, looks like it will be very useful for annotating more obscure words.
Heisig, here I come :)

Tobberoth Wrote:Personally, I often find it easier to remember kanji for keywords I do not know, simply because my whole knowledge of the word is based on this site and that kanji. For example, I had never heard "quandary" but I knew the word 困る long before I came to this site... so my story was simple "Quandary means 困る, and a tree stuck in a box sure is 困る" or something like that. When ever I see the keyword, I try to remember what quandary means, and 困る jumps into my head.

You're learning english by using japanese[i.e. not your native language]

Khatz would be proud!

Hey using Japanese stuff on how to learn English is an awesome way to get two things done at once.

btw, what is vicarious?

mentat_kgs Wrote:btw, what is vicarious?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vicarious

alyks Wrote:

mentat_kgs Wrote:btw, what is vicarious?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vicarious

So you looked it up for him?

mentat_kgs Wrote:btw, what is vicarious?

A vicar is someone who stands in for someone else (so the Pope is the "Vicar of Christ"). Thus, a vicarious experience is one that is "second hand" so to speak. A vicarious thrill = watching someone else doing something thrilling.

There is a subtext that the stand-in is lesser than/not as good as the real thing.

Although the subtext isn't present that often. Modernly, outside of 'vicarious thrill', you almost always see the word used in one specific situations: parents living vicariously through their children (think stage moms). I like the word, so I use it in whenever it seems appropriate, but in general that's about the only place you actually see it get used.

Non-natives are of course guiltless and wonderful people, but it actually always kinda unsettles me how many of these words natives say they don't know. Our vocabulary spirals down...!

Edit: On the other hand, I'd never heard the word 'vittles' before until it was part of a question in a trivia game about a week ago. Apparently everyone else in the world is perfectly aware of it. So.

QuackingShoe Wrote:Although the subtext isn't present that often. Modernly, outside of 'vicarious thrill', you almost always see the word used in one specific situations: parents living vicariously through their children (think stage moms). I like the word, so I use it in whenever it seems appropriate, but in general that's about the only place you actually see it get used.

Um, the subtext is present there. When someone says someone else is living vicariously through their children, I immediately think that the parent wasn't able to be a success, so they are trying to make their children successful instead.

It's -possible- that's not the case, but when used like that, it almost always implies it.

It's of course easier for those of us who speak a germanic language nativly, vicarious is easy for me since "Vikarie" in Swedish is a person who is a substitute for someone else because of sickness etc at a work place. Commonly used in school when a teacher is sick and a Vikarie replaces him.

Also, if one has studied latin, most English words become really easy to understand even if you've never heard them before.

I am Portuguese, and I base myself on comparing the stories from the English and the Spanish edition, in order to make my stories. Sometimes I ignore both of them, if I feel I can make a better story. I speak English like a native, so for the most part I don't have much problems. But I always try to use a English-Portuguese dictionary, to make sure that I have a very specific meaning. Sometimes a english word is generalistic. Choosing a portuguese equivalent forces me to be more specific, and it helps with memorizing it. I usually print the pages of RTK1 in cheap, used photocopy paper, and on the side of each english meaning, I write the equivalent portuguese word. When I memorise the kanji, I think about it often in portuguese and english to make it more solid. then, for a quick review, I use a hand on top of the cheap photocopied paper, to cover the kanji and english word, and looking at the sribbled portuguese word, I write the corresponding kanji. I can't complain, it's worked well for me so far.

@QuakingShoe ;

haha vittles, I say that all the time. In fact I'm gon' get me some vittles right now.