This semester I'm back in school for the first time in years, taking a class about Japan that's taught in English. Many of the people in the class are Japanese majors and I've been surprised about some of the things that they've said about their classes. I was wondering if those of you who have taken Japanese at an American university could enlighten me as to whether this is typical or not.

The university is in a city with a large native Japanese community. There is at least one Japanese immersion elementary school and some of the high schools here teach Japanese as well. For these reasons, I thought it was likely that this university would have one of the nation's *better* Japanese programs.

The class that I'm taking is a junior or senior level class in the Japanese department, but it's taught in English. It seems that almost all of the Japanese classes are taught in English, except for those that are named something like "Speaking Japanese II" or whatever. According to the students there who are studying Japanese, they are going to read their first short story during a class their senior year. (After 4 years of studying the language?!!?)

One more thing that I thought was weird... There also happen to be several native Japanese students in my class, which made me excited because I would have someone to practice my speech with, and possibly find a partner for a language exchange. I didn't want to bother them though because I figured that all of the Japanese majors who have been attending school with them for the last few years would have already done the same thing. However, it seems like all of the American students huddle together and chat about manga and samurais and their personal conception of Japanese culture while completely ignoring the Japanese students. I don't think I've seen them even acknowledge the two cute girls who moved their chairs right next to them. I've also never heard a word of Japanese pop out of their mouths unless they were explicitly quoting some anime.

So are we, here and other forums like this one, the exception in really pushing ourselves to learn Japanese in a timely fashion? Is this typical of American universities or does this particular school just take a rather laid back approach to learning? When I studied French in college we were speaking French only starting with the very first class and were expected to learn from immersion, so this is completely backwards for me.

I can't speak for any Japanese classes, but I took 4 years of French in high school and it was pretty much the same -sans natives. I took French conversation in college and most of the people spoke English in the class more often than French, so I wouldn't be surprised if this were typical everywhere.

it's very typical of american colleges/ highschools to teach everything in english and to just say... memorize this little vocabulary list for next week... they really are that bad trust me.... a lot of people take the classes to just fill language requirements for their degree and don't actually give a d*** about the language. you have to really be in love with a language to study it as excessively as a lot of people on this forum though... most people just don't have that same amount of drive as we do... i totally understand them though... because i have no drive whatsoever when i take my spanish classes... i only study it one day a week and thats right before i show up to it... japanese however is an absolutely different story... it's all in your motivation... and some people are more motivated to just watch anime all day long with english subtitles and talk about it in english to their english friends... they might just be satisfied knowing a word or two and be content with that... don't let it bring you down though... if you are ahead in class just keep on studying ahead with the time other students would study the words you already know... if you don't like that idea, you might want to look into changing your major... just my 2 cents anyway...

I'm a Japanese major in college right now. Let me tell you, your observations are pretty much correct. I'm the only one who almost exclusively has Japanese friends, and I am most certainly the only one who knows the kanji.

Not only that, but I always try to explain RtK to everyone else, as well as stuff like Anki and AJATT. Some of them will look at the site (mostly my roommates who I force them to bring it up), but no one uses any of it.

It's a shame really.

I'm not actually in school, I'm just taking the class. The school that I did graduate from didn't even offer Japanese, so I was excited to see what I had missed out on. Guess I didn't miss much.

Well, gee Samsara, nobody is paying attention to the two cute Japanese girls...?
Looks like an opportunity to me.





(No offence intended: I'm assuming you are either a heterosexual male or lesbian female, of course)

Ji_suss Wrote:Well, gee Samsara, nobody is paying attention to the two cute Japanese girls...?
Looks like an opportunity to me.

I don't even walk on that side of the classroom anymore since the day they had this really loud political conversation. I almost punched somebody, which I figured might adversely affect my grade.

Samsara Wrote:

Ji_suss Wrote:Well, gee Samsara, nobody is paying attention to the two cute Japanese girls...?
Looks like an opportunity to me.

I don't even walk on that side of the classroom anymore since the day they had this really loud political conversation. I almost punched somebody, which I figured might adversely affect my grade.

Religion is politics... Politics is religion...

It's no wonder you wanted to punch someone. Body shots only though.

What level is the class aimed at? From my experience, the beginner level classes are always filled with tons of anime-obsessed weeaboos, who tend to start disappearing in more advanced classes.

I've taken Japanese classes at two different universities, and the one I'm at now always felt like its much slower and less effective than the other one I went to (the students here don't even learn katakana until 2nd semester). There has been a big focus on production (speaking and writing) though, which is something that I don't get much of in my own self-study. Classes are conducted in English (for the most part), but I don't really see the problem with that. When the teacher is explaining about assignments or whatever, its really important that that you understand precisely what to do, right? While about half of my class has studied abroad in Japan and would be perfectly comfortable in an entirely Japanese class, some of us in there still struggle with it.

That's awesome. Considering that such a high portion of your class studied abroad it sounds like you did have some dedicated students. This class is for 3rd and 4th year students, but because it's taught in English anyone can take it. The Japanese majors only take about 1 class per semester where they learn the language and use Japanese. The rest are classes like this that are about a Japanese subject taught entirely in English.

learning about japanese in english... what a joke >_< at least they could use 1 japanese language speaker and then another person translating one after the other... that would help all the slackers in class ^_^

Zarxrax Wrote:What level is the class aimed at? From my experience, the beginner level classes are always filled with tons of anime-obsessed weeaboos, who tend to start disappearing in more advanced classes.

My course is the highest course offered specifically about speaking/reading/writing/etc Japanese. There is one course higher, but it is pure "read this in Japanese and translate".

The people in it are just straight up lazy. It's kind of irritating. Not to mention the teacher is horrible.

But in a way I can't blame them, really. We went from the Genki textbooks (1 & 2) straight to the book about Progressing from intermediates to advanced (also Japan Times). We completely skipped the book in the middle, and if I didn't do my own study often, I would be utterly lost.

i know at UGA they mostly do the genki 1 & 2 books and then the intermediate book after that...

Wow this all sounds pretty horrible. Over here in the Netherlands, I think you're expected to know all the jouyou kanji by the end of your first year. And in the third (and last) year it is mandatory to stay in Japan for like a half a year. Not a single person who finishes his third year won't be fluent in Japanese.

Our teacher's idea of teaching is to have us read the textbook.

The last sentence structure we learned was a は b です.
We're have a halfway into the semester.

Her idea of memorizing a word is to say it aloud three times.

At least you guys have classes. There are no Japanese classes in my country. Not at university, college or high school. ZERO :/

CaLeDee Wrote:At least you guys have classes. There are no Japanese classes in my country. Not at university, college or high school. ZERO :/

If your profile is correct and you are from the UK; I'm sure that at least Oxford has a Japanese course of sorts.

phoenix Wrote:Wow this all sounds pretty horrible. Over here in the Netherlands, I think you're expected to know all the jouyou kanji by the end of your first year. And in the third (and last) year it is mandatory to stay in Japan for like a half a year. Not a single person who finishes his third year won't be fluent in Japanese.

本当?

That's great. I wonder how many people pass that course though?

phoenix Wrote:

CaLeDee Wrote:At least you guys have classes. There are no Japanese classes in my country. Not at university, college or high school. ZERO :/

If your profile is correct and you are from the UK; I'm sure that at least Oxford has a Japanese course of sorts.

I am from Northern Ireland, it's part of the UK yea, but we don't have Japanese classes here.

Samsara Wrote:However, it seems like all of the American students huddle together and chat about manga and samurais and their personal conception of Japanese culture while completely ignoring the Japanese students.

I can't help but be amused at the irony of this sentence in context, posted in a forum where instead of manga and samurais, foreign students of Japanese huddle together and talk about learning Japanese more than actually doing it (That doesn't go for everyone, but you know who you are).

Hashiriya Wrote:learning about japanese in english... what a joke >_<

I think it's obvious you're at the wrong website.

Well I've graduated from a couple of universities in Australia and New Zealand. I never took Japanese, but at the time I did look at the programmes offered. From what I remember by the end of the degree you are expected to be relatively fluent at reading, writing, and speaking japanese. Certainly though you wouldn't be expected to know the joyo kanji by the end of the first year!! You would have three years to learn that.

For instance Monash university offers 12 levels of japanese language courses. You enrol in the appropriate level regardless of what year of study you are in.

http://www.arts.monash.edu.au/japanese/u...nguage.php

To be honest in my opinion the best way to learn a language is probably not by majoring in that language in college and sitting through a lot of boring lectures. It is to immerse yourself in that language, preferably by living in the country and perhaps enrolling in a specialised language school. Nevertheless I think if you completed a japanese degree at Monash you would be pretty decent at Japanese (also to be fair Monash does offer an exchange course in Kanazawa over the summer).

Although it sounds like the programme at this college is less than rigorous, the course you are enrolled in can be taken by anyone, and seems to be more focused on something other than learning the language, so it isn't surprising that it isn't conducted in japanese. A lot of college departments have to offer courses like this to get enough enrolments and maintain their level of funding. If the courses were really demanding, how appealing do you think it would be to the typical american undergraduate. Most american undergraduates seem to be mostly interesting in drinking, partying, etc. And in truth I'm not sure I really have a problem with that, I would go as far as to say the majority of college degrees are worthless anyhow so you might as well enjoy yourself (without going too overboard).

So what am I trying to say? Ummm, I really have no idea :-)

lol i was referring to advanced classes still using english instead of japanese as a joke

Hashiriya Wrote:i know at UGA they mostly do the genki 1 & 2 books and then the intermediate book after that...

Yeah, we skip that intermediate book completely. It's like they just except us to know it somehow. Fortunately, I did self study and I do know a lot of it, but many students in my class don't. And if you're going to follow an acceptable curriculum, how can you just jump levels like that? I think it's pretty stupid. But that's mostly because I hate the book.

phoenix Wrote:Wow this all sounds pretty horrible. Over here in the Netherlands, I think you're expected to know all the jouyou kanji by the end of your first year. And in the third (and last) year it is mandatory to stay in Japan for like a half a year. Not a single person who finishes his third year won't be fluent in Japanese.

I seriously doubt that. Not even in specialized schools in Japan do you learn all the jouyou kanji in a year.

I have no doubts that the Netherlands have better schooling in Japanese compared to the rest of the world, considering how bad it usually is.

I have no problem believing that. I have heard the same things about the Japanese section at Geneva's university. They go really fast, I think they read the Tale of Genji in second year already.

You have to remember that we're talking about full-time students and that the goal is to train them to become high-level interpreters and translators.