As soon as I finish RTK I plan to reward myself by buying either an iPod Touch, iPhone or Sharp Zaurus to use for Anki, my EPWing dictionaries and as a media player.

I've had trouble finding a comparison of the pros and cons between these devices, which one is considered better at this stage?

My ideal device would have:

-Anki working perfectly with pictures and sound support.
-EPWing dictionaries searchable by hand written kanji for when I dont know the reading.
-Camera would be awesome for taking photos of stuff to SRS.
-Sound recorder for a similar application.
-Can play video easily without having to convert to proprietary formats.
-Price is something I will definitely take into consideration.
-I already have a Asus Aspire One so I dont need the functions of a laptop covered
-I just need an instant on device that can always be with me.

What would you consider the ideal solution and is there any other devices that Im not thinking about?

As far as your needs are concerned, the main advantage of Iphone over Itouch is the camera and the ability to record sound. I have no idea about zaurus. Unfortunately, the iPhone does not meet all your qualifications. One example is because it plays only QuickTime video format and a special version of YouTube. The Japanese input on iPhone is cool but I don't think it has handwriting recognition available for Japanese, although I think it might for Chinese. Nonetheless, the Japanese kana input is easy to access and quite nicely suggests kanji compounds as you type.

I have never tried Anki on the iPhone although, if you search for iPhone, I believe it has been discussed in one of the threads. You might have to end up jailbreaking your iPhone though. (something I would never do)

I'm using a 2g iPod touch right now for mobile learning. I have no use for a camera or sound recording for study purposes so other than the lack of an EPWING reader it suits my needs very well. I have a denshijisho that I usually carry around when I need more than an EDICT lookup. I just use iAnki for my anki deck, gflash+ for a cram deck, normal iPod functionality for audiobooks, jp music (with lyrics displayed!), and kotoba! for EDICT. I don't study by watching videos, but it has a very high res screen so would work nicely if I wanted to start. There is a bunch of software out there to automate the conversion process as well.

You're not going to find anything that can play all kinds of video formats natively without just going for a laptop (many subnotebooks aren't even powerful enough to play some more advanced or higher quality encodings so forget about handhelds). You should decide which features you really need and which would merely be nice to have.

Jarvik7 Wrote:You're not going to find anything that can play all kinds of video formats natively without just going for a laptop

That's not quite true...

IMHO the best tool for learning Japanese is a PDA. you can pimp it out with everything you'll ever need! I love mine so much I wrote a review here:

http://nosceteipsum.wordpress.com/2008/0...y-to-help/

I use it for everything - videos included and have never had a problem.
I am however starting to use my 4th gen Nano for (Japanese) music videos that I've downloaded from Youtube though. I could do it on the PDA, but the Nano is small enough to use on really crowded buses etc.

At the end of the day, you need something that you are actually going to carry around with you all the time to be able to make use of it, it does need to do what you want as well though!

I actually used to have a PDA and although I loved it, I tried stackz and I found that it is no where near the program that Anki is. I love some aspects of it (the visual feedback with the graphs, the little scratch pad where you can write Kanji in) but I really didnt like the desktop software I have to create decks on and the algorythm compared to Anki and I think thats the most important thing. Is Anki able to be ran on a PDA yet?

To help you understand where I'm coming from I've ordered things from most important to me to least important.


-I need an instant on device that can always be with me.
-EPWing dictionaries searchable by hand written kanji for when I dont know the reading.
-Anki working perfectly with pictures and sound support (pictures and sound are not essential but being able to sync and so in is).
-Price
-Can play video easily without having to convert to proprietary formats.
-Camera would be awesome for taking photos of stuff to SRS.
-Sound recorder for a similar application.

mistamark Wrote:That's not quite true...

It's very true. While some pdas might handle some common formats, nothing supports all the wild & wacky stuff you will find on the internet. There is no VLC or perian or mplayer for windows mobile etc. Unless it's vanilla divx he'll probably be needing to do some conversions, especially since Japanese-media release groups like using obscure stuff like mkv. Even if they did support all the formats, they don't have the horsepower to decode most of the newer codecs at the native resolutions anyways. That's the whole reason why mobile-centric codecs were developed.

Jarvik7 Wrote:It's very true. While some pdas might handle some common formats, nothing supports all the wild & wacky stuff you will find on the internet. There is no VLC or perian or mplayer for windows mobile etc. (...) like using obscure stuff like mkv.

Without trying seem like I'm arguing with you; CorePlayer on the PocketPC plays pretty much everything you'd want: http://coreplayer.com/content/view/28/69/

Video:
H.264 (AVC), MKV, MPEG-1, MPEG-4 part 2 (ASP), DivX, XviD, WMV*, Theora*, Dirac*, MJPEG, MSVIDEO1

Audio:
MP3, MP2, AAC, MKA, WMA, Midi*, WAV, OGG, Speex, WAVPACK, TTA, FLAC, MPC, AMR, ADPCM, ALaw, MuLaw, G.729

Jarvik7 Wrote:Even if they did support all the formats, they don't have the horsepower to decode most of the newer codecs at the native resolutions anyways.

That is a reasonable point though. When I play video I do always resize/re-encode it for my PDA, (a 10/20 minute job) mostly just to reduce the file size though.

Herbo Wrote:EPWing dictionaries searchable by hand written kanji for when I dont know the reading.

I don't know if you'll find this. However, if you have EPWING you can use KanjiDic with SKIP which is pretty effective.

did you guys see that tvuplayer has just been released for 3G phones?
http://pages.tvunetworks.com/labs/mobile.html

mistamark Wrote:Without trying seem like I'm arguing with you; CorePlayer on the PocketPC plays pretty much everything you'd want: http://coreplayer.com/content/view/28/69/
<snip>

Jarvik7 Wrote:Even if they did support all the formats, they don't have the horsepower to decode most of the newer codecs at the native resolutions anyways.

That is a reasonable point though. When I play video I do always resize/re-encode it for my PDA, (a 10/20 minute job) mostly just to reduce the file size though.

I stand corrected, but if you're gonna be converting everything anyways then native playback ability isn't a must have feature anymore. A PDA does remain his only choice though since he (for good reason) wants EPWING reading. I hope the iDic author gets a move on

Hashiriya Wrote:did you guys see that tvuplayer has just been released for 3G phones?
http://pages.tvunetworks.com/labs/mobile.html

Ah, I'm sorry - I wasnt clear here it seems.

What I meant is that I would like to be able to draw a kanji and have it recognized by the IME rather than having to type it in via kana. That way I can search for kanji without knowing the reading.

I can confirm the CorePlayer is excellent and can play pretty much everything you throw at it. The deal breaker with a PDA though is Anki unfortunately.

Does the hack that allows Anki to be used offline on an iPod Touch work for a PDA?

Herbo Wrote:

Hashiriya Wrote:did you guys see that tvuplayer has just been released for 3G phones?
http://pages.tvunetworks.com/labs/mobile.html

Ah, I'm sorry - I wasnt clear here it seems.

What I meant is that I would like to be able to draw a kanji and have it recognized by the IME rather than having to type it in via kana. That way I can search for kanji without knowing the reading.

I can confirm the CorePlayer is excellent and can play pretty much everything you throw at it. The deal breaker with a PDA though is Anki unfortunately.

Does the hack that allows Anki to be used offline on an iPod Touch work for a PDA?

With a Dell Axim 51v I was able to play anything except some really high bitrate MP4's without converting them. I know that EPWing works fine on PDA's too and I can bluetooth pictures from my phone and it has audio recording. I just need my Anki! That is one of the two main reasons for getting one!

oops i just read the title and posted... i'm so lazy lol

Herbo Wrote:What I meant is that I would like to be able to draw a kanji and have it recognized by the IME rather than having to type it in via kana. That way I can search for kanji without knowing the reading.

A PDA will do that for you, I'm using a Japanese Axim and have no problems imputing kanji. Got no idea about the iPhone etc though.

Kanji input
http://www.japaneselanguagetools.com/docs/IME.html#hand

Reading lookup:
http://www.japaneselanguagetools.com/docs/Eijiro.html

Herbo Wrote:The deal breaker with a PDA though is Anki unfortunately.

You've got me interested in this. I've been feeling that the reviewing in Stackz seems a little sketchy, and I'd love to be able to add pics and sounds to my cards... Quickly looking into running anki on a PDA, it seems that it's written in Python and apparently there is a python interpreter for the PDA...

mistamark Wrote:You've got me interested in this. I've been feeling that the reviewing in Stackz seems a little sketchy, and I'd love to be able to add pics and sounds to my cards... Quickly looking into running anki on a PDA, it seems that it's written in Python and apparently there is a python interpreter for the PDA...

Without a doubt the Anki reviews are leagues better. Stacks served me fine (I have a registered copy) until I got about a few thousand cards into it and I had to go searching through my piles finding stuff to review rather than it being served up for me. It was annoying that there was no option that would just bring up all the expired cards. The Super Memo algorythm is much better than the basic Leitner in my opinion. Especially for the volume that we go through.

Just to get everything nice and clear so that we have a good reference here in case anyone else has the same questions....

What is the status of Anki on:
Zaraus
iPhone\iPod Touch
Windows Mobile.

Can the hack that allows an iPhone to run an offline version of Anki be used for Windows Mobile?

What options are there for EPWing readers on:
Zaurus
iPhone\iPod Touch
Windows Mobile.

What are the options for Kanji input on
Zaurus
iPhone\iPod Touch
Windows Mobile.

Any other significant disadvantages or advantages for any of the products?

What is the status of Anki on Phone\iPod Touch:
If you're jailbroken Ankimini works great. If not, iAnki works good enough but still loses the cache sometimes even in beta5.

What options are there for EPWing readers on iPhone\iPod Touch:
If you have a jailbroken one with 1.x firmware then there is iDic, otherwise nothing yet. There is a free offline EDICT reader at least though. There are also some for-pay real (not-EDICT) dictionaries on the appstore.

What are the options for Kanji input on iPhone\iPod Touch:
Normal PC-style IME input, keitei-esque input, and handwriting recognition if you switch to traditional-Chinese input. All the modes have predictive input.

Pros for iPhone/iPod Touch: Small, huge capacitive (pressure based ones suck) touchscreen w/o need for stylus, excellent music & video functions, integrates perfectly with Mac (if you have one), relatively cheap (for the iPod anyways), long battery life. Still manufactured & readily available new worldwide (unlike Zaurus).

Cons: New platform and strict appstore rules so less established software, no jailbreak for 2nd gen. iPod touch yet. No EPWING unless you have a jailbroken 1.x

I don't have a Zaurus or Windows Mobile device so I'll leave those to someone else.

If you're thinking of getting a Zaurus you'll want to hang out here for a while first: http://www.oesf.org/forum/

Zaurus SharpROM (as it comes out of the box):

anki: ankiqpe: http://ankiqpe.wiki.sourceforge.net/ works well for reviews but is limited, no editor. ankimini: http://ichi2.net/anki/download/ankimini/ works, limited, no editor
epwing readers: there's a few, I use ztenv, works fine
kanji input: comes with crim kanji handwriting recognition, nice

Zaurus Debian (you can install debian but it's not recommended unless that's the sort of thing you already do for fun anyway...):

anki: runs full anki
epwing readers: ebview, works fine
kanji input: kanjipad: not an IME, don't know how accurate it is. scim-tomoe: an IME but no debian package. cellwriter: have to train it first

OK I think I can answer a bit for the Windows Mobile at least
What is the status of Anki on: Windows Mobile.
I have no idea. Not sure if the iphone hack to allow anki to run offline works. Can anyone asnwer this?

Stackz or SupermemoCE looks to be to the best options. Stackz uses the basic leitner system but is otherwise good, Supermemo uses a far superior algorythm but has an awful user interface

What options are there for EPWing readers on:
Windows Mobile.
http://www.japaneselanguagetools.com/complete.html
This is has all the information on the status of dictionaries on PDAs that youll need. They are pretty much flawless though.

What are the options for Kanji input on
Windows Mobile.
The win moblie ime is excellent. Handwriting recognition, predictive text, etc.

Any other significant disadvantages or advantages for any of the products?
Pros: Windows. Lots of apps. Can play videos, record sound, limitless hardware options.

Cons: Its buggy as all hell and the whole OS is just rubbish really. Its not really being actively developed anymore as everyone is looking to the iPhone and smart phones.

So looking at all three options, the Zaurus looks the best but its difficult to get it working and the hardware is expensive and its a dead format... Hmm no really good optoins though it seems. iPhone is definitely the growth area though.

Well, I got an iPod touch a few days ago, and it's been so much FUN playing around with the damn thing that I haven't had a chance to move study materials onto the device yet.

Years ago, I had an HP iPAQ running Windows Mobile. There was basically no creativity in creating the OS - it was like a mini-version of Windows. However, the handwriting recognition was quite fun and usable with some open source dictionaries like eDict.

I'm still exploring the iPod touch, but so far, the device is just incredibly addicting. I have wireless setup at home, so it's very easy to browse the web and download/purchase new programs directly from Apple. Safari and YouTube are great for surfing!

I have iTunes running on a MacMini hooked up to my TV. One of the neat programs is a freely downloadable program called Remote, which lets me control iTunes on the MacMini. It seems like a fancy remote control because I can control the playlists, volume, shuffling, etc... from the iPod touch, but it's actually better than a normal infrared remote. Because it's using wireless instead of normal infrared, I can be in the next room or anywhere I can use wireless to control the iTunes on the MacMini (no line of sight required!).

I'll post some notes on learning tools later next week, after I do some research, but overall, I really love this PDA!

I went in to Akiba today to price some second hand PDAs and Zaurus's. I thought I'd put them up here for everyone.

Zaurus:
SL-C3200 37800+
SL-C3100 24800+
SL-C3000 16800+
SL-C860 10000+
SL-C760 10800+
SL-C750 10800+
SL-C700 8400+

Windows Mobile (I only looked at models that had at least 640x480 res as I want it for the dictionary):

Dell Axim X50v 26800+
Fujitsu LooX v70 FLXV7 14800+
HP Ipaq hx4700 19999+
Toshiba Genio e830 16800+

These prices are the cheapest I could find for each model.

For running anki and dictionaries only on a Zaurus, does anyone know which model would be the cheapest possible one? On both of the Anki sites you gave me for Zaurus, I wasnt able to find minimum running specs.

Herbo Wrote:For running anki and dictionaries only on a Zaurus, does anyone know which model would be the cheapest possible one? On both of the Anki sites you gave me for Zaurus, I wasnt able to find minimum running specs.

I think any of those would work (but I'd avoid the 700/750 and 3000 cos of lack of flash), see http://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=Zaurus_Models for the differences (and check out that wiki in general)

OK that's excellent news.

So I think Ill be going for either the SL-C860 or the C1000 if I can find it in the store for a reasonable price. Im halfway through RTK now and if i make it through, ill reward myself with this and let everyone know about my experiences. Still, if anyone else has any comments or ideas on better systems, let me know!

Jarvik7 Wrote:What is the status of Anki on Phone\iPod Touch:
If you're jailbroken Ankimini works great. If not, iAnki works good enough but still loses the cache sometimes even in beta5.

Try the new version 0.2.1. It gets around the cache issues in iPhone.

vosmiura Wrote:

Jarvik7 Wrote:What is the status of Anki on Phone\iPod Touch:
If you're jailbroken Ankimini works great. If not, iAnki works good enough but still loses the cache sometimes even in beta5.

Try the new version 0.2.1. It gets around the cache issues in iPhone.

Cool, I just put it on now, we'll see how it goes. I had to manually clear the cache to get the new version loaded on my iPod touch though. Hitting refresh a bunch of times has never worked for me for some reason :/