rich_f Wrote:なんとなく is my favorite word these days.

Just yesterday I started watching an anime in which the main female character often says 「なんと！」 in disbelief. For some reason I find it so funny

alyks Wrote:

johnzep Wrote:

alyks Wrote:蚊に食われて、とても痒いです。

do people actually say this?　I think I've heard 刺す exclusively when talking about mosquitos. But 食う would be sorta funny to be able to use

It was in UBJG...

If you look up 食う, it lists to bite as a meaning, but I've never actually heard it used that way. 蚊に刺された is what I always hear. hmmmmm....


I love なんとなく as well... also 悪循環... which is probably the most random word I got to learn back when I was taking Uni level Japanese....

shneen Wrote:

alyks Wrote:

johnzep Wrote:do people actually say this?　I think I've heard 刺す exclusively when talking about mosquitos. But 食う would be sorta funny to be able to use

It was in UBJG...

If you look up 食う, it lists to bite as a meaning, but I've never actually heard it used that way. 蚊に刺された is what I always hear. hmmmmm....


I love なんとなく as well... also 悪循環... which is probably the most random word I got to learn back when I was taking Uni level Japanese....

I had never heard it either, but a quick search on google proved that it is indeed proper Japanese, it is used on several japanese pages.

shneen Wrote:If you look up 食う, it lists to bite as a meaning, but I've never actually heard it used that way.

I asked a Japanese lady at work about 食う and she said it was a vulgar term that you shouldn't use at all. I thought it could be used in reference to animals eating but apparently it's not a word to use in polite company.

Raichu Wrote:

shneen Wrote:If you look up 食う, it lists to bite as a meaning, but I've never actually heard it used that way.

I asked a Japanese lady at work about 食う and she said it was a vulgar term that you shouldn't use at all. I thought it could be used in reference to animals eating but apparently it's not a word to use in polite company.

It depends on the context. When it's used meaning to eat, it's certainly very casual and should probably only be used among friends. That doesn't mean that you don't hear it, though - quite the contrary, actually.

But some of the other usages of the word wouldn't be considered as informal.

Raichu Wrote:

shneen Wrote:If you look up 食う, it lists to bite as a meaning, but I've never actually heard it used that way.

I asked a Japanese lady at work about 食う and she said it was a vulgar term that you shouldn't use at all. I thought it could be used in reference to animals eating but apparently it's not a word to use in polite company.

食う is an informal "male" word. It's used very often, but not by women and not when you're trying to be polite. Actually, ギャル sometimes use male japanese, which sounds kind of odd. There are other words like this which are specific to gender, like かしら which is mostly used by females... or homosexuals.

食う certainly isn't offensive, but since you asked an older lady at a store, it's not odd that she said you shouldn't use it. It's sort of similar to 俺 in when it's used.

She's a young lady at my work, not an old lady at all. Maybe some males might use amongst themselves but it's probably a subculture thing. I would never use it.

Of course there are many English words I wouldn't use because they're vulgar but people do use them. Like I said, maybe it's subculture-specific. If you grow up in respectable family who teach you good manners, your speech will be different to that of an urchin in any language, right?

And yes, she also said 俺 should never be used in polite speech or in fact never at all. In fact I don't see why you would ever want to use 俺 unless you intentionally want to be boastful and rude... or unless you think you're an action hero.

What? Forget that:

私 = Gender neutral/slightly womanly
僕 = Male
俺 = Manly man. Pirates and Lumberjacks use this.

俺 is fine to use when it's obvious you are joking around. I can't imagine people actually being offended by it.

えｒｍ
I see 俺 in chat rooms all the time.

Raichu Wrote:She's a young lady at my work, not an old lady at all. Maybe some males might use amongst themselves but it's probably a subculture thing. I would never use it.

Of course there are many English words I wouldn't use because they're vulgar but people do use them. Like I said, maybe it's subculture-specific. If you grow up in respectable family who teach you good manners, your speech will be different to that of an urchin in any language, right?

And yes, she also said 俺 should never be used in polite speech or in fact never at all. In fact I don't see why you would ever want to use 俺 unless you intentionally want to be boastful and rude... or unless you think you're an action hero.

You're putting incorrect labels on the words and are thus misunderstanding them. You seem to think that just because 俺 can be considered inproper and even vulgar in some situations, it's a bad idea to use it and people who use it always intend it to be vulgar. Incorrect.

If I'm talking to a Japanese friend and he calls himself 俺, do you think I'm somehow offended? That I think he's boasting and saying he's better than me? Because he isn't, that isn't how the word is used at all. Same with 食う. It's not a subculture, it's just a different context.

Just as 俺 can insinuate boastfullness, it can also insinuate self-confidence and determination, which are hardly bad things. Why is it bad for males to speak in a manly way? If your lady friend says 俺 should never be used, as some law, I must say she's an odd one. If she's saying "俺 should never be used when talking to a costumer" she's completely right though.

It's like some westerners who use 僕 exclusively because they somehow think it's "polite" and "proper" when in fact, they make themselves look like small boys and insecure wierdoes in some situations. Japanese speech is way too complex to apply such simple labels as "vulgar".

My favorite phrase, which I use quite often is まぁ、しょうがない

Tobberoth Wrote:

Raichu Wrote:She's a young lady at my work, not an old lady at all. Maybe some males might use amongst themselves but it's probably a subculture thing. I would never use it.

Of course there are many English words I wouldn't use because they're vulgar but people do use them. Like I said, maybe it's subculture-specific. If you grow up in respectable family who teach you good manners, your speech will be different to that of an urchin in any language, right?

And yes, she also said 俺 should never be used in polite speech or in fact never at all. In fact I don't see why you would ever want to use 俺 unless you intentionally want to be boastful and rude... or unless you think you're an action hero.

You're putting incorrect labels on the words and are thus misunderstanding them. You seem to think that just because 俺 can be considered inproper and even vulgar in some situations, it's a bad idea to use it and people who use it always intend it to be vulgar. Incorrect.

If I'm talking to a Japanese friend and he calls himself 俺, do you think I'm somehow offended? That I think he's boasting and saying he's better than me? Because he isn't, that isn't how the word is used at all. Same with 食う. It's not a subculture, it's just a different context.

Just as 俺 can insinuate boastfullness, it can also insinuate self-confidence and determination, which are hardly bad things. Why is it bad for males to speak in a manly way? If your lady friend says 俺 should never be used, as some law, I must say she's an odd one. If she's saying "俺 should never be used when talking to a costumer" she's completely right though.

It's like some westerners who use 僕 exclusively because they somehow think it's "polite" and "proper" when in fact, they make themselves look like small boys and insecure wierdoes in some situations. Japanese speech is way too complex to apply such simple labels as "vulgar".

Yes! Manly men make a comeback! 俺が・・・男の人！

alyks Wrote:What? Forget that:

私 = Gender neutral/slightly womanly
僕 = Male
俺 = Manly man. Pirates and Lumberjacks use this.

Are you sure about this? Just off the top of my head (no science here) I would say:
私 = Always safe for everyone (I don't think of it as feminine at all)
僕 = Masculine and perhaps a bit childish at times. However I have heard it used to express a bit of humility as well. Not appropriate for formal usage.
俺 = Masculine and often childish. This is the only word used by my junior high school boys. I do hear male adults use it too but only to each other for friendly chat amongst peers. Obviously not for formal usage.
あたし = Feminine. Always safe for the ladies except in formal situations.

Having said all of that, in the three years that I have lived in Japan, I have never found myself in a situation where I felt I should have placed more value in worrying about the correct I pronoun to use. I think there are better and more important nuances of Japanese to sweat.

Actually, I think I should revise that a little, Dialandau23:

私 = Gender neutral/slightly womanly/afraid to say that you're a man if you use it.
僕 = Male (Barely)
俺 = Manly man. Pirates and Lumberjacks use this.

俺 is pimp.

On _anime/manga_:

私 = Gender neutral. Women use this one.
僕 = Male, but girly. Some girls use it too, but it is weird.
俺 = Manly man. Pirates and Lumberjacks use this. Lufy, Zoro, etc. All the cool guys.

Ok, thinking about it a little seriously, isn't it always just a bit childish to be masculine? Even in America it seems like women think we (men) are "immature" when we act manly and avoid feminine things.

I myself wouldn't be afraid to use 俺 because it's not the word, it's the person. If a total badass uses it, it's badass. If I dumb little kid uses it, it's kinda boastful and childish.

Well, in the begging Lufy is boastful and childish. But as the story goes on, he rocks.

Recently, I discovered ちゃぶ台返し, which I thought was kind of cute, especially when coupled with its kaomiji.

alyks Wrote:Ok, thinking about it a little seriously, isn't it always just a bit childish to be masculine? Even in America it seems like women think we (men) are "immature" when we act manly and avoid feminine things.

Depends on whether it's an act or it's really you. There is a difference between what a person thinks is masculine and what actually is. In general, though, being masculine (correctly) will get you farther than not most of the time.

Just to add to the discussion, I too have been told that 俺 is better not used at all, "unless you want to sound like a playboy". (It was said by a 19 year old girl)
Now, if that's true than most of the dramas (not even mentioning anime of course) use incorrect language. I'm not in Japan so I can't judge.

nac_est Wrote:Just to add to the discussion, I too have been told that 俺 is better not used at all, "unless you want to sound like a playboy". (It was said by a 19 year old girl)
Now, if that's true than most of the dramas (not even mentioning anime of course) use incorrect language. I'm not in Japan so I can't judge.

I'm sure a few young women would tell men not to say a lot of things they say with their friends.

Could we maybe move the OT discussion to another thread? Favorite word or phrase people.

I haven't come across any anime or manga recently but in my three months in Japan I have paid a lot of attention to this personal pronouns issue and have actually questioned people on the correct usage. I believe dilandau23's analysis of 私・僕・俺 is the most accurate one.

I have often heard 僕 used to express humility or good-hearted friendliness in relaxed situations. I have even heard it used consistently in an official business meeting by a very senior guy who, I believe, used it in an attempt to create a friendly atmosphere and to put everyone else at ease. I also keep hearing it in a boyfriend/girlfriend situations in young professional couples. I have also heard it from shop assistants who positions themselves more as consultants, in smaller boutique-y shops.

俺　is consistently used by male bosses in offices when talking to their staff. Also, in those situations among friends where people in the UK would normally use the word 'mate'.

There is nothing womanly about 私. It's very neutral, in the sense that it conveys nothing of the humility/friendliness of 僕 and nothing of the assertiveness evoked by 俺.

Personally, I hardly ever use 僕 as I don't associate myself with the connotations it conveys. I am 俺 to some long-standing friends or when some irony is involved. I am 私 in most other situations. And I occasionally use my first name when I'm taking the piss.

缶切り 「かんきり」　
大ピンチ 「だいぴんち」
ホーム

Not favorites, but interesting, surprising phrases, nonethless.

The first one is a can opener, but it's an interesting way of putting it. Does anyone know the entomology of this Kanji 缶 ? It looks like one that the Japanese may have created, and it sounds like 外来語 - the English word "can". It's one of those funky mixed words which is easy to understand in Kanji form, but easily confused otherwise.

The second means "being in a pinch", in a big way.

The third one is a platform!!! As in a train platform...