wrightak Wrote:Did you manage to get a laugh for any of the others?'Fraid not. The hedgehog joke was a real struggle just to explain.
2009-08-25, 3:51 am
2011-03-12, 1:40 pm
So anyone else's using this book?
I'm using it for about one month and have studied it almost everyday for 15-30+ minutes.
I feel that my japanese language processing ability is indeed getting faster and that I'm starting to speaking faster too. I'm studying the first book (beggining unit 4, out of 5) then will continue reviewing it for a week or so intensively and will then start book 2 (reviewing the first one like once or twice a week).
Is shadowing working for you? Glad I found this method.
I'm using it for about one month and have studied it almost everyday for 15-30+ minutes.
I feel that my japanese language processing ability is indeed getting faster and that I'm starting to speaking faster too. I'm studying the first book (beggining unit 4, out of 5) then will continue reviewing it for a week or so intensively and will then start book 2 (reviewing the first one like once or twice a week).
Is shadowing working for you? Glad I found this method.
2011-03-12, 4:00 pm
In all fairness I agree with the assessment that the grammar level of the first book (I haven't seen the second) is quite basic but the point of the book is not to teach grammar. What the book does and does very well is speak at a very natural pace with many casual and formal phrases. Just because the grammar is not hard does not mean the book is worthless. Speaking as a self-study never-taken-a-class student of Japanese, vocal production is by far the biggest hurdle. Reading and input is easy to bolster over time, you just keep reading more. But without constant attempts to vocalize and speak quickly and fluidly takes a ton of practice that is, in my experience, quite difficult to diligently practice on one's own.
Some of the simple simple simple phrases in the book have been great in real-life use for me. like "Sorry I was late, were you waiting long?" -- saying that in a very casual friend-to-friend way is not often discussed in any text book. Sure, you could glean it from anime or whatever, I'm not saying there are no other resources for gathering this sort of information, just saying don't knock the book simply based on the vocabulary difficulty or grammar complexity.
With that said I'm super-excited to find out that there's a second book that seems to be even longer and more complex!
CarolinaCG, please share any methods you've refined for using the text -- are you following their prescribed approach? In my approach I've found this very helpful:
1) when shadowing don't go through the whole section, just pick one phrase and work on it over and over, then move on (like do one phrase 10 times the first time you encounter it, as opposed to doing a set of phrases 10 times through). After that initial familiarity is established then doing it once through later on is much much easier.
2) speak LOUDLY. it's a simple suggestion, but when shadowing I've often felt overpowered by the audio, like I'm submitting to it and trying to get it refined as I'm listening. That doesn't work at all. Speak loudly and speak over the audio. If you get it right it will sound right (i.e. in unison), if you get it wrong it will sound wrong and you will know. But I think it's pretty important to "power through" the segment of audio.
3) don't make an SRS deck out of it at first. Shadowing requires a lot more initial dedication to get it right. It's not about recognizing the phrase, or understanding it or being about to say it. It's about ALL of that, at once. You've got to practice speaking it as it is natively spoken. putting a phrase into Anki and recognizing it and passing the card will be selling yourself short.
Just my two cents.
K
Some of the simple simple simple phrases in the book have been great in real-life use for me. like "Sorry I was late, were you waiting long?" -- saying that in a very casual friend-to-friend way is not often discussed in any text book. Sure, you could glean it from anime or whatever, I'm not saying there are no other resources for gathering this sort of information, just saying don't knock the book simply based on the vocabulary difficulty or grammar complexity.
With that said I'm super-excited to find out that there's a second book that seems to be even longer and more complex!
CarolinaCG, please share any methods you've refined for using the text -- are you following their prescribed approach? In my approach I've found this very helpful:
1) when shadowing don't go through the whole section, just pick one phrase and work on it over and over, then move on (like do one phrase 10 times the first time you encounter it, as opposed to doing a set of phrases 10 times through). After that initial familiarity is established then doing it once through later on is much much easier.
2) speak LOUDLY. it's a simple suggestion, but when shadowing I've often felt overpowered by the audio, like I'm submitting to it and trying to get it refined as I'm listening. That doesn't work at all. Speak loudly and speak over the audio. If you get it right it will sound right (i.e. in unison), if you get it wrong it will sound wrong and you will know. But I think it's pretty important to "power through" the segment of audio.
3) don't make an SRS deck out of it at first. Shadowing requires a lot more initial dedication to get it right. It's not about recognizing the phrase, or understanding it or being about to say it. It's about ALL of that, at once. You've got to practice speaking it as it is natively spoken. putting a phrase into Anki and recognizing it and passing the card will be selling yourself short.
Just my two cents.
K
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2011-03-12, 4:25 pm
I went through it a long time ago and found it really beneficial. I really recommend it, especially for beginners, but shadowing in general is good for pretty much any level. The only problem I have is getting myself to do it for 10 minutes a day.
A little while ago I downloaded the Core 6000 deck when it was shared and I've been using that in a similar way to the book. I have the audio on the front, and the sentence, reading and translation on the back. It's mostly stuff I know, but I mainly use it to practise my pronunciation, and doing new cards can be good for listening comprehension. It's also allowed me to learn the pitch accent for words I didn't learn with audio.
A little while ago I downloaded the Core 6000 deck when it was shared and I've been using that in a similar way to the book. I have the audio on the front, and the sentence, reading and translation on the back. It's mostly stuff I know, but I mainly use it to practise my pronunciation, and doing new cards can be good for listening comprehension. It's also allowed me to learn the pitch accent for words I didn't learn with audio.
2011-03-12, 4:37 pm
I have the second book and it seems a bit harder than the first one, in the last units you have huge texts to shadow.
I'm a little limited on what time is concerned, so I don't shadow as much as nor as I wanted, I pretty much follow the 1st book's instructions (and just to let you know, the second book has much better and detailed explanations than the first one).
1. Listen to the track for 10-15 minutes always repeating out loud.
2. Repeat that in the following days, doing the same for the previous tracks, but all in a row, like I choose 5 tracks and listen to them and repeat them for 15-30-45 minutes/day (5-6 days a week).
Sometimes I shadow without paying attention.
But anyway, I'm going to shadow until December (and will continue after that, but this is my shadowing goal - December)
I only add the vocab I don't those set phrases they have there into anki, like 口は災いの元だね。
I'm a little limited on what time is concerned, so I don't shadow as much as nor as I wanted, I pretty much follow the 1st book's instructions (and just to let you know, the second book has much better and detailed explanations than the first one).
1. Listen to the track for 10-15 minutes always repeating out loud.
2. Repeat that in the following days, doing the same for the previous tracks, but all in a row, like I choose 5 tracks and listen to them and repeat them for 15-30-45 minutes/day (5-6 days a week).
Sometimes I shadow without paying attention.
But anyway, I'm going to shadow until December (and will continue after that, but this is my shadowing goal - December)
I only add the vocab I don't those set phrases they have there into anki, like 口は災いの元だね。
2011-03-12, 5:37 pm
I was thinking recently of for how to do more learning. I guess I should try these books out. Even if it's simply,doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
2011-03-12, 5:44 pm
CarolinaCG: would you mind scanning a page or two of representative content from book 2 (if you can)? The web site description is not as good as for volume one and the images are all fuzzy and small so I can't really look at what the dialogues are like. I'm most likely going to buy it soon, but the local kinokuniya doesn't have a physical copy so I'd have to order it online.
K
K
2011-03-12, 5:49 pm
I was already planning on doing that, but only next week because I'm back home for the weekend and my stuff are all in the city where I study. 
2011-03-12, 5:50 pm
CarolinaCG Wrote:I was already planning on doing that, but only next week because I'm back home for the weekend and my stuff are all in the city where I study.cool, it would be helpful for everyone.thanks
2011-03-14, 12:39 pm
http://nihongobakkashi.blogspot.com/2011...st_14.html
I'm sorry but I know no other way to show you pics : p
I'm sorry but I know no other way to show you pics : p
2011-03-14, 2:17 pm
CarolinaCG Wrote:http://nihongobakkashi.blogspot.com/2011...st_14.htmllooks useful, I but anyone would be able to master basic conversation with this. Add immersion/shadowing/transcripts into the mix and your bound to improve a lot
I'm sorry but I know no other way to show you pics : p
2011-03-14, 6:53 pm
Looks like a good continuation from the first book. Is it new? I just checked Amazon.jp to see if they have, and it doesn't shop up.
EDIT: found it.
EDIT: found it.
Edited: 2011-03-15, 2:40 am
2012-03-26, 10:43 am
Did I miss the book title in the thread? The link doesn't work any more and I just end up at the home page.
Thanks
Thanks
2012-03-26, 11:11 am
dampingwire Wrote:Did I miss the book title in the thread? The link doesn't work any more and I just end up at the home page.http://whiterabbitpress.com/shadowing-le...-w-cd.html
Thanks
http://whiterabbitpress.com/shadowing-le...-2cds.html
I hope that answers it.
2012-03-26, 3:10 pm
When I'm shadowing (I'm not doing this these days but plan to get back to it at some stage), I take one line at a time and practice it until I can hear no differences between my output and the shadowing source. That typically takes me .5 - 1 hr, depending on how complex the phrase is. The next stage is to be able to repeat the phrase by myself only. When I can do that, I noticed that I can remember the phrase for a prolonged time without practicing... or maybe I'm cheating myself because whenever I playback those phrases in my head, which can happen at various times (while taking shower, driving, during a boring meeting, etc.), I actually do those repetitions.