snispilbor Wrote:In Tae Kim's defense, does anyone know any better word for what Tae calls "gobi"? You're misrepresenting him, he doesn't use "gobi" to mean "particle", he uses it to mean "よ、か、ね、な、ぜ、ぞ" at the end of the sentence. I've never seen any other convenient name for these sentence-ending-thingies, and it's useful to have a name for them.

How about "sentence-final particle"? Not a snappy single word but on the other hand everybody will know what you mean without your having to explain :-)

playadom Wrote:It has a lot of meanings, but I think in this context として means something like "as" or "like".
Something like -- Giving up like there's no hope, or something like that. I could be very wrong here, of course.

The 五 here means that it's a 五段 verb -- it ends in る, so there are two conjugation possibilities.

So you'll have みかぎってinstead of みかぎて, and みかぎります instead of みかぎます。 That might be why the り is there at the end, but I'm not sure about that.

Ohh, thank you! I get it now.

「ずうずうしく居候をきめこむ」

This is an example sentence from the definition of ずうずうしい from Yahoo: http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8...=1&dtype=0

"To shamelessy take the sponger for granted."

...is what I get from it, but does anyone know what this really means?

I'm also having problems with this sentence:

「知事選に立候補する」

Can anyone help?

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:ずうずうしく居候をきめこむ

Shamelessly assume it's ok to live in somebody's house without paying.

Quote:知事選に立候補する

Make a run / enter the race for governor.

iSoron Wrote:

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:ずうずうしく居候をきめこむ

Shamelessly assume it's ok to live in somebody's house without paying.

Quote:知事選に立候補する

Make a run / enter the race for governor.

Excellent. Thanks.

tokyostyle Wrote:This thread pretty much proves that grammar really does matter.

Well in these cases it was more the vocab. I thought this 居候 was a person who sponges, not the act of sponging.

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:Well in these cases it was more the vocab. I thought this 居候 was a person who sponges, not the act of sponging.

You should have checked the word in daijirin on yahoo.co.jp:

"他人の家にただでおいてもらうこと。"
The act of staying at someone elses house for free

You sure it can't mean both?

他人の家に世話になり食べさせてもらうこと。また、その人。食客。

PrettyKitty Wrote:You sure it can't mean both?

他人の家に世話になり食べさせてもらうこと。また、その人。食客。

Of course it can. How does that change anything? If he would have read in the dictionary, he would have seen that it can mean the act just as well as the person.

Tobberoth Wrote:

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:Well in these cases it was more the vocab. I thought this 居候 was a person who sponges, not the act of sponging.

You should have checked the word in daijirin on yahoo.co.jp:

"他人の家にただでおいてもらうこと。"
The act of staying at someone elses house for free

That's it, I think I'm changing my primary dictionary to Yahoo.jp. Sanseido just gave me: "他人の家で養ってもらう人"

I didn't want to start a new thread for this. Why are fruits and animals and plants often written in katakana? This is something that bemuses me.

Well, Google told me that it's because the kanji are rather difficult, but emphasis is often still desired, hence katakana (I guess it's along the same stylizing logic for using it on signs to make words stand out).

nest0r Wrote:I didn't want to start a new thread for this. Why are fruits and animals and plants often written in katakana? This is something that bemuses me.

Well, Google told me that it's because the kanji are rather difficult, but emphasis is often still desired, hence katakana (I guess it's along the same stylizing logic for using it on signs to make words stand out).

http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/...1219249727

Quote:野菜にはってあるなら、野菜を見るだけであって文字は（特にやさいのなまえは）
気にしないと思いますが、お子さんがおつかいされるようなスーパーはわかりやすくかかれて居るようなきがします。


＞＞カタカナとひらがな、どちらがピンときますか？


きゃべつ → キャベツ
にら → このままひらがな


あくまでも個人的な意見です!

I suspect that it depends a bit on the context. This jeKai page says

Quote:There appears to be some "official" pressure to write biological names in katakana, and this is the standard practice in reference books

but for common plant and animal names in common casual usage kanji or hiragana are more usual, I think.

alyks Wrote:http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/...1219249727

That's about usage for fruit-n-veg being sold, so more kanji usage there matches my guess above.

Quote:きゃべつ → キャベツ

As a loanword that one's got two reasons to be in kana (though google says hiragana's not unknown). [insert usual caveats about googling here]

tokyostyle Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:Why are fruits and animals and plants often written in katakana?

In every sense it is easier to read.

Take your favorite fruit kanji and then see when kids learn it and that gives you part of the answer. Then realize how many shoppers there are with poor eye sight and you have a completely different but just as valid reason. The choice between hiragana and katakana are a little more unclear, but one thing I've noticed is that the more "Japanese" the fruit or vegetable the more likely it will be in hiragana.

There are lots of other things written in hirgana in stores too. The part of the animal the meat comes from is never in kanji for example. Also things targeted at kids such as candy and toys usually are as well.

The grocery store I frequent in Osaka has everything in kanji if they have them. All of the cashiers are chinese immigrants though, which likely has a lot to do with it

Tobberoth Wrote:

PrettyKitty Wrote:You sure it can't mean both?

他人の家に世話になり食べさせてもらうこと。また、その人。食客。

Of course it can. How does that change anything? If he would have read in the dictionary, he would have seen that it can mean the act just as well as the person.

It doesn't change anything. Did I imply it did?

My statement was directed at Virtua_Leaf, not at you. It wasn't clear if he thought it only meant the act now.

名脇役 - I'm wondering if I'm correctly understanding the nuance of this as meaning 'known (in a positive way) for its supporting role'--perhaps it even has the kind of tone you might hear in an award show; the original sentence, which I have covered (including the abbreviation for 'cost-performance') is "見た目はシンプル、CPは最高！名脇役ユニクロ！" - from here: http://taf5686.269g.net/article/13853262.html

nest0r Wrote:名脇役 - I'm wondering if I'm correctly understanding the nuance of this as meaning 'known (in a positive way) for its supporting role'--perhaps it even has the kind of tone you might hear in an award show; the original sentence, which I have covered (including the abbreviation for 'cost-performance') is "見た目はシンプル、CPは最高！名脇役ユニクロ！" - from here: http://taf5686.269g.net/article/13853262.html

Basically yeah. "outstanding supporting actor". In other words, your entire outfit shouldn't be Uniqlo, but their stuff is good to use as one part of an outfit. EVERYONE shops at Uniqlo and their selection is pretty limited so if you wore too much of it it would be obvious.

The supporting role comment ties in with the first one. It looks simple but it's good value for the money, since the simplicity means that it easily matches other clothes to make an outfit. I know that I wear my Uniqlo heat tech & dry shirts a hell of a lot

Jarvik7 Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:名脇役 - I'm wondering if I'm correctly understanding the nuance of this as meaning 'known (in a positive way) for its supporting role'--perhaps it even has the kind of tone you might hear in an award show; the original sentence, which I have covered (including the abbreviation for 'cost-performance') is "見た目はシンプル、CPは最高！名脇役ユニクロ！" - from here: http://taf5686.269g.net/article/13853262.html

Basically yeah. "outstanding supporting actor". In other words, your entire outfit shouldn't be Uniqlo, but their stuff is good to use as one part of an outfit. EVERYONE shops at Uniqlo and their selection is pretty limited so if you wore too much of it it would be obvious.

Thanks, I read the original summation here: http://mekas.jp/en/trends/493.xhtml#2 but didn't fully trust the translation since it conflated the sentence(s) a bit.

Going back quite a bit, after looking through this thread again.

Virtua_Leaf Wrote:確かに今作は酔うな。

Is this 'I'm certainly not addicted to the latest product' or 'I'm certainly addicted to the latest product, right/agree with me/innit'?

Was that about a game, then?

In this case, 酔う might actually be 'feel sick', as in 3D酔い (when you start to feel sick playing 3D games).

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D%E9%85%94%E3%81%84

Quote:五〉 見込みがないとしてあきらめる． (派)(～)り

I think here として＝とする
そう考える、そう判断する、という意を表す。

To decide (consider that) something is hopeless, and give up on it.

待ってられない未来がある。

How would you deconstruct the first part? Is it a contraction of 待っている, in the negative potential form?

My sense of the sentence, confirmed by Google's language tools, is 'the future can't wait'.

Taken from a poster for The Girl Who Leapt Through Time.

It's weird though, to use a contraction, which I presume to be colloquial, but not using the colloquial variant of the potential form, dropping -ら... then again, I suppose the structure and context makes the potential/passive difference obvious.

Or is -te form passive always modified before 'iru'? Now that I look above, I realize I could have Googled '待っていられない' to check whether I was right.

My interpretation is "there is a future that can't be waited for", deconstructed precisely how you give it. My guess for why ら isn't dropped is because it sounds ugly and awkward if you do.

~J

woodwojr Wrote:My interpretation is "there is a future that can't be waited for", deconstructed precisely how you give it. My guess for why ら isn't dropped is because it sounds ugly and awkward if you do.

~J

There is the aesthetic reason too--I got the impression from Google that this is almost an idiomatic expression... at least, there are variations where 未来 is replaced and the rest remains the same. Also, 'can't be waited for', that's both passive and potential--without being a stickler for translating it into English, did you mean it that way? I'll assume you just meant negative potential there. Also, wouldn't the 待ってられない be modifying 未来がある so that we have 'a can't-waiting future exists'? Or, 'A future exists that can't wait'?

Heh, I just introduced the passive because I think it's better style in English. Honestly didn't even realize that I was doing it, as the anthropomorphization of the future seemed so awkward.

(Yes, I do get in a lot of knife-fights with editors, why do you ask?)

~J

woodwojr Wrote:Heh, I just introduced the passive because I think it's better style in English. Honestly didn't even realize that I was doing it, as the anthropomorphization of the future seemed so awkward.

(Yes, I do get in a lot of knife-fights with editors, why do you ask?)

~J

Yes, I was only nitpicking as part of my deconstruction process, sorry. ^_^ Plus I really like the resonance of the expression and how it ties into the film.