Hi guys, this is my first time posting. Basically, I started reading about AJATT and RTK and all that, and I've basically decided I want to get serious and start learning Japanese. I was in Japan for a few months last year for work, and got really interested in moving there for a while, but unfortunately I had to come back. Now there is an opportunity coming up for me to head back over to Japan, and while speaking Japanese is not a requirement, I need some way to stand out from other people with respect to my drive and motivation in moving there (basically, they don't want to hire someone who will flake out and decide Japan's not the place for them). I started reading about the JLPT and how it's only offered once per year..since it's already August now, I have about 3.5 months to study for JLPT level 4.

Now, I'm not doing this purely for the job, learning Japanese is actually something that I've wanted to do for the longest time. I initially kept putting it off thinking I could always learn once I went there, but after reading all these websites I realized I'm just fooling myself and the best time to start is right now! Even though I'm at home, I have all the resources I need to start studying.

Now...I'm basically at level nothing in Japanese ability. I started Heisig about 2.5 weeks ago and am at 425 right now (around 25 per day on average). I know a few stock keywords and phrases from when I was in Japan, and I can read Hiragana/Katakana comfortably, but nothing "real". I also started Pimsleur about a week ago and have been doing 1/day.

My question is, am I fooling myself into thinking it's possible for me to get to that level from absolute zero? If not, then what would you guys recommend as a crash-course curriculum? I am very dedicated and motivated, but at the same time I can't spend 8 hrs a day studying as I also have a full time job that takes about 10 hrs of my day up.

Make it 50-75 a day. Finish pimsleur before RTK. Then mine sentences hardcore until the test.

Want to watch a movie? Watch Japanese instead.

Oh you need to eat lunch? Learn to use a fork with your left hand and review with your right hand...while doing pimsleur.

Turn every single waking moment into Japanese. Going to slack off? No you're not, you're studying Japanese.

Going to the bathroom? No you're not, トイレへ行く.

In all honesty, if your primary goal is taking the JLPT4 in december, and you know almost nothing about Japanese language, I wouldn't even do heisig until after you take the test. JLPT4 simply doesn't require you to know very many kanji; it is more focused on basic grammar and vocab. Heisig is a rather large time-sink, but the output pays off over the entire journey. It's not gong to pay off by december.

Level 4 is easy, and do-able in 3 months from scratch if you focus on the basics. This is how I would approach it:

-Learn Hiragana/Katakana first. It's more important than kanji for level 4. Remembering the Kana is a good way to jam them all in fast.

-Get a good textbook/grammar book so you can get a basic understanding of the language first. The Genki series by Japan Times is good, Japanese for Everyone is also good, Understanding Basic Japanese Grammar by ALC is good, too, since the vocab doesn't get any harder than level 3 of the JLPT. Minna no Nihongo is good, but it's all in Japanese. Most textbooks you can find in a Barnes and Noble or Borders probably aren't worth the money.

-Keep doing RTK, but don't freak out about it. It's not important for Level 4. You really won't have to know that many kanji. (You'll have to know some, of course, but you'll need basic understanding of how sentences work first.)

-Pimsleur if you feel you must, or japanesepod101.com if you want to save a lot of cash. There's a listening comprehension portion of the test, so you need to learn how to listen and decipher the language. See if your local library has Pimsleur to try before you buy. (Or just use the library's copy.)

-Get old JLPT tests. If you search around online, you should be able to find some.

I don't know that I'd obsess about buying a bunch of Japanese movies/books/etc. until you're sure you like the language, and you're willing to work on it. And it works a lot better when you can understand a large chunk of what you're hearing/reading, which means it won't work as quickly for a beginner. (But it will still help to some extent.)

An SRS would be useful. It's an efficient way to keep information in your head.

I'm sure that there are review books for level 4, too... I just don't know of any off the top of my head, since I never took it. Try thejapanshop.com and see what they have. They'll probably have a lot of what you're looking for.

EDIT: This is probably what you're looking for: It's the UNICOM review book for JLPT4.
http://www.thejapanshop.com/product.php?...266&page=1
But they're out of stock.

The ISBN for it is: 9784896894547.
If you call Kinokuniya in New York City, they'll have it in stock, most likely, and they ship all over the US.

UNICOM makes some awesome review books.

Hi guys,

As we speak I'm actually going through a few more kanji while eating, thanks alyks .

I'm not sure at this point whether or not I should focus too hard on the Kanji, but at the same time, I'm in this for the long haul and don't want to compromise my overall study too much by just studying "for the test".

I'll definitely check out that UNICOM book, I'm actually in NYC so maybe I'll just go over to the Kinokuniya in a day or two to pick it up.

I'm thinking I should continue at my pace of 25 or so kanji per day, but then I should start studying the 4kyuu basic kanji more seriously and learn their readings/usage/etc. If I were to do 75 kanji per day, I don't think I'd be able to do much else for that time period as the reviews would kill all my time, but then again..I would finish much faster.

Also, to note, I haven't actually signed up for the test yet. Was just wondering about the feedback on whether or not it's a reasonable goal. The general consensus so far seems to be that it is, so I'll probably sign up for it in a few days!

burritokun Wrote:Also, to note, I haven't actually signed up for the test yet. Was just wondering about the feedback on whether or not it's a reasonable goal. The general consensus so far seems to be that it is, so I'll probably sign up for it in a few days!

If you're going to sign up, you should do so soon. In some places the application period ends after a certain period of time. JLPT4 is insultingly easy, and probably not worth your time. It doesn't mean anything beyond the ability to master the first few weeks of any 101 course.

If you're going for it, I wouldn't bother with RTK until after you're done. You only need to know like ~100 kanji for JLPT Level 4. Using the RTK method you should be able to master those in a few weeks, but it will be difficult at first.

Definitely master kana first. You need to increase your reading ability dramatically. It's no good if you can understand stuff if you can't do it within the time limit of the test. Hiragana and katakana aren't difficult, but you have to be able to read them to take the test. Drill them until they are no longer foreign to you. The faster you can decipher the kana, the more time you can spend actually thinking about the test questions.

Most of the advice given so far is good for improving general Japanese ability, but the best way to pass a standardized test is to study FOR the test. Get a list of the kanji that appear on JLPT4 and study those in an SRS while forgetting about the rest of RTK for now. Get a list of vocabulary that appears on JLPT4 (the playsay.com one is pretty good) and import it into an SRS. Suspend all the cards, un-suspend all the ones you know, and then un-suspend the rest as you learn them. For grammar/reading ability use an entry level textbook like Genki 1 (if you get the one with CDs you can practice listening too). "Real" Japanese books, even ones for kids, will have many many words/grammar points that do not appear on the test. Watching a movie in Japanese will have no effect on your ability at this point (like you said you're starting from 0) so I think it's probably a waste of time. Maybe watching something subbed will be motivational though.

Once you get that done, take some of the previous year's tests (while timing yourself). http://jlpt.biz has a lot of material for you can use, but it's all in Japanese so it might be hard for you to find what you need. By editing this url's year field you can check out the vocab/kanji section of the tests though: http://jlpt.biz/jlpt/jlptsimulateword.do...07&level=4 . Alternatively, if you search P2P (emule etc) there are packs of every single test in their entirety. The above vocab lists cover 90% of the vocab you'll need, but there are always some words not on the list (but at the same approx. level) that will show up on the tests so add those to your SRS when you come across them. Buying JLPT4 study books can be useful, but I'm not so sure that they are very necessary for level 4 if you use the above materials. I'm not at all a fan of Pimsleur, but I suppose it's better than nothing for basic level listening practice. It is easy to do while driving etc too where you otherwise can't study.

JLPT4's vocab & kanji lists are pretty short so depending on how much time you put into it, you should be able to get them done in a few weeks to a month. After that you can go back to regular Japanese learning. Keep doing practice tests though.

Your goal is very reasonable. I would definitely recommend taking the test; with one precaution:

You definitely don't need all the kanji from Heisig, and at this stage if you keep it up, you are actually taking valuable study time that you could be focusing on more important issues, like building vocabulary/grammar and listening/reading comprehension. Level 4 only deals with 103 kanji characters, so focus on those and make sure you have them down pat - anything else in addition to this is simply supplementary.

Have a good look at this page; http://www.jlptstudy.com/4/index.html and basically use that as a good basis to work off. Buy a couple of good books focused on building your grammar and reading comprehension, and good luck!

I say don't bother spending the 60 bucks for such a simple exam. Something tells me that it will not even help you stand out on a job application.

As JLPT is more for college entrance, there's another dealing with businesses (forget the abbreviation). That's offered 4 times a year, and it's one test. It just computes how well you did on the test, and gives your results in various areas. May be worth your effort to look into that.

That said, put yourself into a Japanese environment. Study in a reasonable way, and play in Japanese. Good luck.

There's the JETRO BJT - Business Japanese Proficiency Test http://www.jetro.go.jp/en/bjt/

and also the J.Test http://j-test.jp/xp/modules/tinyd10/cont....php?id=11 which is more for a measure of Daily communication ability.

Finally, there is the Kanji proficiency measure at http://www.kanken.or.jp/index.html

JLPT4 probably has the most "entry level" certification available.

Nukemarine Wrote:As JLPT is more for college entrance, there's another dealing with businesses (forget the abbreviation). That's offered 4 times a year, and it's one test. It just computes how well you did on the test, and gives your results in various areas. May be worth your effort to look into that.

Very few universities accept JLPT as a test of Japanese ability. They generally want 留学試験 or the JASSO test now.

JLPT4 is soo easy. I know little about this, but my friends tell me it is not worth much. It seems JLPT2 is already well respected, tought. At least here in my country.

This is just my personal opinion, but I think you should forget about JLPT4 and go for a higher goal.

To use a language in your profession, you need to:
1) Be able to discuss using the language.
2) Be able to reflect using the language.

And that is what you need to do.

I don't see why everyone feels the need to be so dismissive of taking level 4. Given that he's not going to take level 3 this year, he'll be studying for it (possibly for level 2 if he's ambitious) in 2009. He can either go into the 2009 test with the JLPT4 experience & accreditation under his belt, or without it. Don't be so snarky just because you've been studying longer; remember what it was like to be a beginner.
Having said that, yes, passing level 4 with 3-4 months of study is quite possible.
RTK is not an efficient way to prepare for level 4. That doesn't mean you should stop working with it, but I wouldn't spend much time on it until you're confident about the test material. Definitely keep up your reviews; don't forget the kanji you've learned so far.
There are only ~100 kanji in level 4; few enough that they can be learned through traditional methods fairly quickly and it shoudn't have any negative effects on finishing RTK later on.
Jarvik7's study advice is good. I would just warn against focussing too much on JLPT texts too early. Use a combination of a general-purpose text (like Genki, Minna no Nihongo, etc) and JLPT-centred texts. You'll start by concentrating mostly on the former, and your attention will shift more to the latter as the test gets closer.
Trying practice tests is very important, but I wouldn't bother until you know at least 2/3 or so of the test material (vocab/grammar points).

Hey Burritokun, why don't you check out the Japan Foundation for study materials. I know the JF in Toronto has a library with JLPT study guides and old tests, so surely NYC must have the same. Might save you some money.