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success stories

#1
Is there already a thread for this? This isn't something I can contribute to till sometime next year, when I'm confident at my skills, but I often read all of your posts, and notice the different types of learners--those who knew a little Japanese from school, those who actually live in Japan and speak some Japanese but don't write it well, people starting completely from scratch with RTK and other self-study methods, and that sort of thing. Anyway, I'm just wondering about your 'story' in regards to the above, and what your progress has been like, what you intend to do, et cetera.

Anybody here reached JLPT1 or some similar basic measurement of 'high proficiency', from low levels of Japanese/scratch, using primarily self-study methods like RTK?
Edited: 2008-09-07, 1:26 pm
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#2
I'm getting there. I've been studying Japanese for about a year now. About 6 months I devoted to RTK, and the other to actually learning Japanese. I can say that in a few 3 months, I can go for JLPT2. My vocabulary is large. I have about 3000 sentences so far. And basically anything I read, I can understand atleast 50% (with the exception of very specific material, science, etc..). When I look at the scripts for dramas, I can understand almost all of it. However, it's hard for me to process the Japanese just from hearing it. And ofcourse, I don't really speak Japanese that much so speaking is also my 不得意. I'm at the point where things will come together soon.



At this point, I'm watching a couple of dramas (Nobuta Produce and Tiger&Dragon). I'm trying to increase my vocab even more, so I practically take most of the sentences from the script. My rate is, 1 week for each episode.
Edited: 2008-08-21, 4:35 pm
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#3
mr_hans_moleman: that kind of thing is very encouraging to read. I've been studying Japanese for a total of about 6 years now, and I feel I have about the same comprehension that you're describing, at least in terms of vocab recognition. Of course I can speak Japanese pretty well too and have developed a decent intuition for it. But I clearly need to devote more time to intense studying/memorization if you can make those kinds of vocab gains with these systems in such a short time.
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#4
Now that UBJG is pretty much all in a spreadsheet now, I've been tossing them into Anki very fast. It's sad that I started the sentence method back in January and barely have 500 sentences entered. That should change now.

But the title of the thread is "Success Stories", and I'm more apt to think about what I haven't done yet than what I have done so far. Anyway, RTK - Done, 500 Sentences (Doubled audio to writing, reading to pronunciation) - Done, 10 Karaoke songs - Done.

Now to finish up UBJG (600 sentences to go) then back to Kanji Odyssey.
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#5
Well I came to Japan a year ago and before I came I learned the kana and went to an adult beginner course which used the useless Japanese for Busy People. So my before Japan efforts were pretty crap, then when I got here I was totally demoralised by not being able to be understood at all by anyone even a tiny bit. So I kind of did nothing for a few months, deeming it too hard, but also because we originally were only going to stay for three months.

Then I found AJATT and we got posted for longer so I knuckled down and got to RTK, doing it in January and February. For those two months my Japanese was even worse, but I started doing some Pimsleur on the side and it wasn't too bad. In March I got stuck in to the sentences, and nicked a whole lot from Tae Kim and other places. I started Assimil, I went through Japanese for Everyone, did the exercises and put the sentences into Anki, I'm actually doing the last chapter today. I'm on about kanji number 360 in KO, I've done all the UBJG sentences available at the moment, and I've added other stuff I find, and also Japanese RTK keywords and sentences. My deck today has 4436 cards in it.

Now, the successes. I can speak Japanese. I mean, anything I want to say, I can say in some, albeit oft roundabout, fashion. I know the Japanese words for dinosaur, fuel efficiency and survival of the fittest. Taxis take me where I want to go. The food I order matches the wax model in the window outside. I can find swim nappies for my daughter by asking around and following directions given. I can tell off little kids, I can make obaasans laugh, I can read the buttons on my tv.

I can pretty much function in Japanese society if I have enough time to work it out. Of course I'm not fluent, I often forget at the crucial moment some easy sentence that I definitely know. Often I mispronounce, mix up words and speak slowly. However I can get understood, and that is all language is for.
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#6
I'll write my story too.

I started some time ago with the Genki textbook series. My progress was slow and unuseful. After that I discovered AJATT last summer. I soon started RTK and completed it last August (doing 100 kanji a day). Then I started sentences.
It was extremely hard, I don't know why I couldn't remember anything. It was frustrating.
In October something happened in my life (nothing bad Smile) and I quit my Japanese study for a while.

After some months, namely the end of March, I started again...
I found myself in the frustration of having forgotten almost all the kanji of RTK. Since I'm brave (^__^) I started it allover again. I competed it at the end of May (2 months) with a 85%-90% recall rate. It was good.
I soon started doing sentences the AJATT way, by the end of the first half of July I entered all UBJG (using the spreadsheet) in my Anki deck. Now, after about three months of sentences I have about 1700 sentences in Anki. I am at kanji 200 in KO1 and, according to Anki, I have 847 kanji under my belt (I mined also some other sources, Yahoo dict, AAP, ADOBJG etc.).
Now I feel much more confident with the Japanese language, I can write emails to pen-pals and they understand what I write. It often happens I can read emails without a dictionary, and that's a good feeling.

It's still hard to understand spoken Japanese even when they say something I should know, but I hope time will fix this. I watch a lot of Jdorama and anime, plus I have japanese podcasts on almost every waking hour (usually not less than 10 hours every day). What I want to do now is to mine senteces form doramas, then rip the audio and use it on my iPod instead of podcasts. Maybe that will help.
I have to work on the pitch accent too. Being Italian I think I have an advantage over the Japanese pronounciation, but the rythm is another matter.

After three months of sentences I think I'm at an intermediate level, I can't wait to see what it'll be in a year Smile When I look through "A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar", I find I know the meaning (and the use) of almost every topic covered.

I don't know why last summer it didn't work, the only difference is I'm doing sentences both ways (kana->kanji; kanji->reading). Now I'm confident I can do that, I can reach fluent level of Japanese. Maybe not native level like Khatzumoto, but a really good level it's possible.
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#7
It is scary how the last year changed everything about learning Japanese. Looking back, advancing success has come about for me via:

Feb 2007 - Heisig's RTK
Jun 2007 - RevTK
Aug 2007 - AJATT
Jan 2008 - UBJG (via AJATT)
Feb 2008 - KO2001 (via RevTK)
Mar 2008 - Sharing of Spreadsheet Sentences using Group Effort (via RevTK)
Apr 2008 - Text to Speech (via AJATT)


I may be off on my dates a bit though. Still, something "feels" like the ripples will be enourmous five years down the line. What will happen when hundreds if not thousands of foreigners begin showing up in Japan already fluent and literate? Interesting times are afoot.

Thanks to all so far for posting your success stories. Yeah, it makes me feel lazy for not being farther along despite 18 months stationed in Japan, but then I also have refound my path (easy to get sidetracked).
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#8
Hm. Interesting thread.
I started learning Japanese a bit more than 10 years ago. I wish this website exists back then. I took courses, and a little self studying, probably something like 4kyuu. I only watch anima/drama and didn't learn seriously. Few years ago I decided I'll go to Japan after finishing my bachelor degree, so I learned more seriously.

In 2006, I found out about Heisig and this website. But I lost interest though I passed 3kyuu.
In 2007, I finally finished RTK1 and decided to take 2kyuu but unfortunately I didn't have the chance to take the test that year.
Now, I'm aiming for 1kyuu. It's a bit of a jump, but I think I have a chance of passing. =)
Well, basically, I had a big improvement from 2006 till now.

I tried AJATT, but I'm never consistent with my sentence mining. I'm currently using Anki for 1kyuu related grammar/vocab.

When I visited Japan last month, I was able to listen to most of what they spoke to me, but my speaking and writing skills are just so blah. My vocabulary isn't good either... But it felt great when some of the Japanese told me my Japanese skill wasn't too bad and when they thought self-studying is great =D

The good thing by using Heisig is that I can guess the kanji meaning and thus have better understanding even though I can't read them =D (assuming I didn't forget the meaning... ^_^Wink I'm just starting reading Harry Potter in Japanese while trying not to open dictionary too often. It's pretty good so far.
Edited: 2008-08-24, 8:14 am
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#9
I recommend not coming to Japan until you are at least at an intermediate level. It's very unmotivating to not be understood by anyone after a long amount of study, or a long amount of time in Japan. I've been here for a year, and for about eight of those months I've studied all day, like from morning to night, excepting some child care stuff I have to do. Japanese is just really difficult. Keigo in stores sucks, old people who have never heard anyone except a native and who won't understand anything except perfect diction also suck. Everyone talking to you in English by default, even if they are worse than your Japanese is, sucks. I'm in Tokyo and it's highly unmotivating, apart from the physical environment, tv, books and signs etc. You aren't going to learn faster here, especially if your game is input only. Until you are ready to speak it's not going to help to live in Japan, or even visit. So don't waste your time here until you're ready. IMHO.
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#10
nest0r Wrote:
Nukemarine Wrote:It is scary how the last year changed everything about learning Japanese. Looking back, advancing success has come about for me via:

Feb 2007 - Heisig's RTK
Jun 2007 - RevTK
Aug 2007 - AJATT
Jan 2008 - UBJG (via AJATT)
Feb 2008 - KO2001 (via RevTK)
Mar 2008 - Sharing of Spreadsheet Sentences using Group Effort (via RevTK)
Apr 2008 - Text to Speech (via AJATT)


I may be off on my dates a bit though. Still, something "feels" like the ripples will be enourmous five years down the line. What will happen when hundreds if not thousands of foreigners begin showing up in Japan already fluent and literate? Interesting times are afoot.
I've been thinking the same thing! It's exciting. You might be too obsessed with UBJG though, dude.
I know it was probably tongue in cheek, but I'll defend it.

Well, considering that I tried Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone, Japanese for Busy People and Genki with limited to no success prior to UBJG, you're right. Just opening it up at Daiei Mall in Yokosuka (remembering the AJATT post about it), looking at what it had to offer inside I bought it and began to apply it.

First mistake with it: Typing in every sentence. Began to get lots of repeat business early one. This was fixed by using only the grammar points of the section involved. Addendum to that was too many long sentences, which I began to break up (doing even more drastically now).

Second mistake: Using the kanji sentences as the production part. Oddly enough, AJATT article pops up saying go pronunciation (kana) for production.

Third mistake: Letting it slide and going to KO2001. I found out I was having to learn too many grammar points to figure out some of the sentences. Just doing Part three in UBJG (verb intensive) and soon Part four (particles and what not) covers most of the problems I had.

Good moves: Pronunciation to production, Bold term sentences only, Text to Audio, Helping get the spreadsheet done. In fact, the spreadsheet has allowed me to go headlong into finally finishing this book (notice I started it WAY back in January and still have 500 sentences left).

I honestly believe if you're doing the sentence method without some grounding in Japanese, you're going to get alot of upfront frustration. Even Khatzumoto from AJATT posted how he inputted sentences from "All About the Particles" first, then went on to what he liked.

And truth be told, someone could benefit just as much from Japanese for Everyone or Genki or the Kodansha series.

For me, I'm gonna pimp what worked or is working for me: RevTK, Anki, AJATT. I'll also pimp what sounds like it'll work for me later: Movie Method for Onyomi, KO2001, Reading lots and lots of Japanese.

Sorry for taking the comment a bit too serious. It irks me that I'm taking too long for this book. However, with failure came better realization of what is working and what isn't.
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#11
Nukemarine Wrote:What will happen when hundreds if not thousands of foreigners begin showing up in Japan already fluent and literate? Interesting times are afoot.
There are already tons of foreigners in Japan fluent in the language, but they are because they live there. Getting fluent in Japanese simply won't happen from studying japanese by a computer, you can get extremely good, have a huge vocabulary and know some amazingly advanced grammar, but when you're actually there speaking to a native, it's different.

I know lots of people who have studied japanese for years at universities in Europe and the states, yet come to Japan and simply sit quiet because they can't speak as fast japanese as the people who have simply lived in japan for 6 months.

Not that I'm saying you can't learn Japanese outside of Japan, just that it takes a LOT of real life interaction in Japanese to become properly fluent. Being able to write sentences/understand fluent conversation doesn't mean you can actually take part in it yourself like a native.

So yeah, what I'm saying is that the odds of foreigners showing up already fluent in Japan is extremely slim, the odds that there will be more foreigners fluent in Japanese in 5 years however is very possible, when the people who have self-studied to a high level has gone there and lived there for a while.
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#12
The sentences you'll mine yourself will be the best. Simple as that!
But having a nice collection of sentences is good for the lazy ones like me!

Now my success story:
I've done a lot of things before AJATT for a loong time. And none of that worked. I knew a few kanji, but only a few words with each, such as 大きい and 小さい. And that was it.
I never got to a point I could read real text or understand any spoken japanese.

So I found out about AJATT and he convinced me I could learn japanese in less time than him.

Then I started RTK. I was so motivated I skipped only a few days, when I was sick or someone dragged me from the PC. It was not easy, but 3 months later, I had it in my utility belt.

A month ago, I started with the sentences. I have only about ~400 sentences in my SRS, covering ~30% of joyo kanji.

I'm using sentences from Yahoo, Anime openings, and now Chapter1 from UBJG wich nukemarine put on anki extra decks and a weird pack I got from a random guy that had ~1000 sentences. That's it, I have ~1400 sentences to drill.

I'm not doing production because I'm lazy. I know it would help me, but I want to go a bit further before, just to be able to read basic texts without going to the dictionary all the time.

It feels great to be able to put sentences with all those kanjis in the SRS, knewing that I would never realy forget them!
I remember when I saw japanese texts before and got scared just by the first few words!

What can I already do?

- I can understand chit-chat in doramas allmost 100%. My vocabulary is very small, but my grammar sense is great. I guess it came from watching all those anime, and because japanese is not my second language, it is more like a 4th and a half.
- I can translate japanese to portuguese with the help of rikai-chan easily.
- I can chat in the internet in japanese, with other anime addicted people, about anime. I know all the series and I understand remarks they give about them. Bit it is still hard for me to respond on par. (Pasting text to firefox and using rikai-chan helps, of course).

I intend to finish the next ~1000 sentences. I feel they'll go veery quickly, because they are very simple. I feel I need kanji heavy sentences in my SRS.
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#13
Find this while searching the web. Hope people find this interesting:
(THIS IS NOT A STORY OF ME just to make everyone clear. I found this while searching the web today. So this has nothing to do with me!!!!!)


About 3 1/2 years ago I began to use the SRS program "Supermemo" (Which I will refer to as "SM"). Since I began using SM, other programs have emerged that specialize in language study, but since I've been using SM for so long and have so much time invested in it, it is far too late to think about jumping ship. No doubt the other SRS programs out there work great, so don't think that I'm knocking them. In the end, use SOMETHING, it's better than nothing.

Anyways, I began to use SM about 3 years ago to retain Japanese vocabulary. Despite living in America, uncommon words that one does not use very often (Such as "round-trip") continued to remain in my memory, and it required very little thought to recall them. This feeling of satisfaction was very addictive, and I began to intigrate more and more of my intellectual life with Supermemo.

I can now speak, read and write Japanese fluently. I passed the JLPT 2Q a couple of years ago without even going to Japan. And the reason that I've progressed this much has little to do with my abilities (I am really quite average, I think), but I believe that it is purely because Supermemo has helped to augment my abilities and to focus my efforts so as little time and effort is wasted (At least when those are being used on Supermemo). Here is why:

Humans need a variety of food to remain healthy. In the same way, no SINGLE specific method will gain you fluency in a language. Language study requires a balance of different methods and inputs.
But SM seems to have become my intellectual equivilancy of a video game "save point." While up until that time, I might have seen/read/heard many interesting or useful things, but until I "save" my intellectual progress, such information only occupies a temporary place in the mind.

http://www.rarityguide.com/articles/cont...roid_a.jpg

While SM is not the only thing I use, it is part of my 'balanced diet.'

I began by putting Japanese sentences into SM, with the word I wanted to memorise written in English (It was easier than trying to describe the word in Japanese). This created context and usage hints. I would usually enter at least two flashcards for each word (Like firing multiple bullets to ensure I hit the desired target), thus ensuring that unless I made a big mistake in structing the material (Poor word choice), the algorithms would ensure that I would remember the word in due time (After about a week or two it would stick very well in my mind).

This worked for vocabulary words, so I thought "Would this work for idiomatic expressions, also?" So I began to experiment, and as time went on, when the appropriate time to use such an idiom presented itself, it required as little time as it took to remember a simple vocabulary word. Now it was easy to rack up idioms (As well as 4-character idioms) in my head. Using James Heisig's Remembering the Kanji volumes one and two (Although I went my own way with book two), I learned all of the ON yomi for the kanji, which made learning most vocabulary words much, much simpler (Most being a combination of two kanji using the ON yomi). In the end learning Japanese simply came down to shooting fish in a barrel, racking up more and more vocabulary that was easily accessable and would be forever retained using SM.

Japanese has now passed on from the "I need to study" phase to the "I speak it fluently" phase. If I were playing World of Warcraft, my Japanese character would be at level 80 (Although I do not play that game, as I want to defend my time from such bandits). I still add Japanese words to SM, but it is like killing low-level monsters at this point, although I would like to eventually take JLPT 1Q, the "final boss."

But since Japanese is, for all intents and purposes, done, I am moving onto Chinese.
Knowing the kanji has helped out a great deal, and the ON yomi bears a strong enough resemblence to the actual Chinese reading of the character that it is helpful. But each language poses a different set of problems, and I am always experimenting with variations of methods to try to make it a step further in my Chinese progress. Like you mentioned, keeping a foreward thinking, open mind about how to do things helps to ensure progress. Once you find something that works, exploit it until it stops working or you find something better. Currently I'm experimenting with the flashcard format used by the web site "Smart.fm." I'm trying to impliment it in SM to see if I learn words better than my present flashcard format for Chinese. You might want to give that site a try, if you haven't already.
We soldier on.

About a year after I began using SM to learn Japanese, I began to expeirment with using SM on non-Japanese desirable knowledge. To learn something FOREVER required such a SMALL investment of time (Less than a minute for the next 30 years of retention). Therefore, one hour of "entertainment-consumption time" could be converted into "self-enrichment through knowledge" time; the long-lasting benefits are so obvious that it makes many other tasks and pursuits seem trivial by comparison (But one must find balance in life, you have to eat some candy every now and then). But rather than simply being a useful study tool, SM has opened up a new way of life for me, where tangible knowledge consumption and retention is well within the grasp of everyone, regardless of anything else. All that is required is a small amount of time and motivation.

As another commenter mentioned above, the process you describe is very similar to incremental reading, a feature advertised on the SM web site. Traditional reading is very much the equivilent of listening to a long speech by someone, and your 'input' is limited: Start, stop, or highlight. Incremental reading is basically a process of taking raw electronic reading material, extracting the useful information, and processing for long term retention (Making something into a flashcard is the end-goal of this process). It is the same as digesting food; take food in, extract neutritious parts, get rid of what you don't need. Since the world has yet to go "fully digital" when it comes to reading material, it seems that we must suffer for a while without having "buy/borrow as a .txt document" as an option for our local libraries or book stores. On the bright side, books are very small compared to mp3s, and music is pirated very often. Therefore, the potential to download books that you buy is very possible, although spotty. For example, I purchased "Atlas Shrugged," but found that reading it incrementally on SM was more fun than carrying the big book around with me. I was able to find Atlas Shrugged online with little trouble, now I'm currently reading it through SM.

Where traditional reading is more of a lecture, incremental reading is more of an organic dialgue. Granted, the text no longer retains its form, it gets "chopped up" rather quickly (Like clipping out parts of a magazine article that you like), but we want knowledge in our head, not pretty looking words on paper. This philosophy has made me enjoy reading much, much more. (I recommend you read more about incremental reading, it echos the sentiments expressed here. Also, I don't want to write what has already been written).

But another expriment that I started about a year ago (That I believe conclusively works) was to see if semi-knowledge put into Supermemo could create subtle changes in my personality and thought-process. You mention putting inspirational quotes into Supermemo, and this is pretty much what I did, but I went about it in a different way. Everyone makes decisions based on principles. Someone might see someone else in need, if they are raised as a Christian, they might think "Do unto others..." so they decide to help that person out. Others might operate on a different principle, which would lead to a different action. The question was "could I take those different principles, put them into SM, and just like the idiomatic expressions, when that principle would come into play, would such principles come to mind, and give more options when making decisions?" I believe that the answer is 'yes.'

For example, one could take key phrases from various philosophy or religious books (That are deemed useful and beneficial by the user, of course), put them into SM, and over time would have such views of the world at their disposal; whether or not they are adopted is up to the user. Therefore you do not have to adopt the philosophy to undersatnd it and have it at your disposal. For example, I have a number of quotes from Hitler in SM because his twisted mind demonstrates a certain cunning and manipulative evil, which it does good to recognize when seen elsewhere (Even in subtle ways).

So basically SM has become a tool with which I program myself. It has grown to encompass my entire life, and has become my primary means of retaining information about the world around me. I spend about one hour using SM every day. Right now I have about 33,000 active flashcards in my big flashcard "deck."
Edited: 2010-02-27, 11:48 pm
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#14
I was thinking of starting a new thread, but it seems what I want to say can all be summed up in here.
but a side note: I'm very interested in this "incremental reading." It sounds like something I could use right now.

ok, now for the story:

HUMBLING EXPERIENCES
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Failure

I was always under the impression that I wanted to learn Japanese "some day." Enter high school: classes were dropped. Enter college: "Why the hell not take it?"
So I signed up, almost simply on a whim.

I was one of those under the foolish pretense that taking classes, going every day, and doing my homework would somehow lead me to Japanese fluency. I felt like my progress after simply the first semester (Genki 1) was pretty impressive. I wanted to learn to read...I wanted kanji. Enter when I first found RtK and this site. It was intriguing, but sounded "too good to be true," and I think I probably read Ben Bullocks (or Bollocks, as it were) review of it on Amazon, because I quickly turned away from it.

Classes move on....First year finishes, Genki 1 and 2 out of the way. Felt impressed with my progress, felt fluency was right around the corner (sure felt that way in class)
Classes: 1 hour, 5 days a week, 30 weeks = 150 hours. from September - May/June

Decided to take summer classes, which were 4 hours a day, 5 days a week, 10 weeks = 200 hours. from June - August. An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese, completed.

Begin Year 2 (year 3 for most people, thanks summer classes!): We're using native materials: novels, TV shows, manga, newspapers. This is when I began to realize: My reading really sucked. I needed to pick up some kanji, and hopefully quick.
FINALLY begin RtK in February (2nd Semester of 2nd Year). Due to a heavy workload, I didn't actually finish RtK until Summer sometime.
Year 2 = 1 hour a day, 3 days a week, 30 weeks = 90 hours.
Class Hours, Grand Total= 440 hours in 2 years.
That's the same as 2 hours a day for 7 months. I felt that I could have passed JLPT 3 without breaking a sweat, and JLPT 2 if I had done just a little bit of preparing.


So I finally get to go to Japan, full year, study abroad. Finally get to see HOW my studies actually paid off. I'm at 北海道大学, which apparently is pretty high ranking, but I don't actually know...
What classes to I get placed into? the Highest Speaking and Reading classes, the 2nd highest Kanji, Writing, Grammar classes (maybe others, but I can't remember).
So I get pretty confident that my Japanese is OK, and that I might be able to pass JLPT 1 as opposed to 2, with a little bit of training.

I'm pretty fluid when I speak, and can carry on conversations with people, but my vocab is abysmal. I "know" kanji, but my reading is quite horrible. My grammar is usually really good, but it's all those goddamn WORDS that they have in Japanese. Who would have thought to put so many WORDS in a language?

After it all I feel like my experiences in Japan have taught me that I probably wouldn't be able to pass JLPT 2, although my friend (who has passed) told me that I would have no problem passing. He may be right, since passing is 60%, but in my mind, anything below 80% is "failing." It's always been like that for me, in any class.

Then I log on here and see people like ta12121, who have been studying for 6 months, and say that they are at JLPT 2 level. This very well may be true, considering how the amount of hours we spent studying are probably comparable. Regardless, it makes me wonder whether my level is higher than I think it is, or if ta12121's is lower than he thinks it is, or if indeed we are relatively equal.

Coming to Japan has been the most humbling thing that I have experienced in my Japanese studies. It's also one of the most motivating. By realizing that I'm not nearly as good as I thought I was (although I am pretty good, I just generally have insanely high standards for myself), is one of the things that has brought me back here again, that gave me the motivation to begin reading 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱, that is actually making me study in my spare time.

This was really long, and I don't know what the point is, but I just felt like I had to say that "boy oh boy...no matter where you think you are in your studies, you're probably not as far as you think you are"
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#15
@Asriel
Interesting post. As for my level. I'm not too sure. I may be lower or may be higher. For me personally i never like to say that my japanese is good. I always personally think i suck horrible in japanese. But each time i keep thinking that, i look at hours I've put in, and so far it's paying off. I just looked up on the site for kanji-reading checklist. And it says i know 1200 kanji readings so far. That makes me happy, because i do feel i can follow subs and understand japanese so much better. Nowadays what i do is get japanese music listen and read with the subtitles+decode if necessary. And my understand of that song is high when i read the subtitles. But without it, it's harder, but not impossible to understand. Overall my abilities are in-between JLPT 2 and JLPT 1 as of now. Pretty good for 6 months. But overall even though i liked to think i;m horrible in japanese, which i still am. In terms of speaking and writing down fluently (but i know this takes time, as it's a language full of characters). So all i need is more time and i'm sure within a year and half i'll be at my goals.

Plus everyone different. The way i learn can be completely different. Someone can go way ahead of me in shorter amount of time, if done effectively. But one thing is certain, you must have that drive to learn and put effort into it. But overall keep it enjoyable. You want to gain fluency in this language, not hate it.
Edited: 2010-03-01, 1:58 am
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#16
oh it is quite enjoyable for me. it was always my favorite class, and i ended up declaring it as a 2nd major because i liked it so much.

i think the main difference between us is drive. i was always under the impression that classes would get me farther than i could go, given i kept up with the work. i was fooled into thinking i had a high level of competence. and yes, i am better than the vast majority of foreigners that i have come across, and i can pass tests, and even conversationally i get along fine without beating an eyelash, i have learned that my technical knowledge (more specific vocab, kanji reading, etc) is quite lower than i am often "graded" at.

even if i were to pass JLPT 1 tomorrow, i would still say that i am nowhere near literacy. i am "fluent" in terms of conversational fluidity, but i still have a mountainous journey ahead of me

ps, i dont mean to belittle your abilities at all, but your numbers, JLPT 2 in 6 months, just fit perfectly with what i meant to get across. i was class-minded for so long and overestimated myself. if you have as much drive as you appear to, then good luck, your story is quite motivating. i look forward to how it works for you when you get to japan. i hope you are as humbled as i was, it was by far the best motivation, as well as wake up call, you can have
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#17
Going to japan will be a whole another ball-pack. I do have the drive to learn alot of japanese. I'm confident at the rate i'm going i will get some pretty good levels in reading+understanding. But as for speaking+writing. Those i need wayy more time. Alot of people say for speaking, you need to practice with a native speaker for a few months, and you should be at a good level in terms of speaking. As for writing well that takes the longest(i'm referring to handwritten not via online text, because computer wise i can type pretty well so far, but still not as good as i could be)
For speaking you need TONS input as well as output. For writing, you tons for output in terms of writing. But it's more about what kanji to use in context.

Plus i remeber someone telling me that, you need to be around japanese people to actually pick up on the small things. Alot of things aren't really fully explained in textbooks. So drama's and such are good. But i know there is casual conversations that i'm probably not used to. For me personally all i need is more time and work. I've learned alot in these 6.3 months. All i need is more time and the drive.F

For me personally. I have taken classes, but i didn't find it effective. I mean classes can help, but i feel i can do the same thing at home at a more faster and effective rate. Classes at times teach "survival" japanese. Which isn't what i want. I want to be able to function no different from a native if possible. I feel it will take time. 2 years sounds reasonable actually. Or more or less, unno it all depends on productiveness.
Edited: 2010-03-01, 2:00 pm
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#18
ta12121 Wrote:Overall my abilities are in-between JLPT 2 and JLPT 1 as of now. Pretty good for 6 months.
I think you're overestimating your skills a little bit. Did you take a practice test to verify this claim?

I don't doubt you've learned a lot in this time but I'm pretty sure JLPT2 is quite an achievement and if it was possible to do in such a short time frame they wouldn't introduce N3 level. Learning methods you've posted didn't include any JLPT specific training, which makes it even harder for you to pass since your study material can differ greatly from what's on these tests.

You could of course prove me wrong but if you did, it would mean you're either a genius or a genius of hard work Smile
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#19
I'll take a look at the test for JLPT 2. Just need to find the link for the practice test.
Well i didn't specifically study or learn JLPT related things. But these few months i have started on JLPT things. I hear that once you reach a certain level, these tests shouldn't be too hard for people to handle. As for overestimating skills, not too sure. I don't think i'm good even. But i know i have improved alot. Let me check the tests and i'll get back on this.
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#20
Nah, that's nothing. I passed JLPT1 two weeks *before* I started to learn Japanese! Big Grin
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#21
ta12121 Wrote:I'll take a look at the test for JLPT 2. Just need to find the link for the practice test.
Well i didn't specifically study or learn JLPT related things. But these few months i have started on JLPT things. I hear that once you reach a certain level, these tests shouldn't be too hard for people to handle. As for overestimating skills, not too sure. I don't think i'm good even. But i know i have improved alot. Let me check the tests and i'll get back on this.
Great. I really hope you'll ace them and prove me wrong, that would sure put an end to my procrastination and get my a** back on track.
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#22
@Codexus
haha.
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#23
ta12121 Wrote:I'll take a look at the test for JLPT 2. Just need to find the link for the practice test.
.
Here is one of the links that has been posted here before for online practice tests/

http://www.ngoilaibennhau.net/jatest/index_4.php

I'm also curious to find out how you do. I've been studying for 6 months and I wouldn't stand a chance at the JLPT2 or probably even 3 for that matter. So if you can pass it, I want to know what I'm doing wrong and you're doing right!
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