lol @ #4
i'm sure the same person doesn't pronounce his "r" as an "l" either

Some people have the nerve. （ン＿ン）<-my awesome smiley~

my father told me "why learn Japanese, its too far way and its too different from english, wh not learn something easier like spanish or french"

i told him no language is easy and spanish and french didn't appeal to me

when I started Pimsleur I my friend was excited at first cus he watches Anime and wanted to try it , but then as he got defeated easily without even trying he asked me "Do u really think that you'll continue?" actually it wasn't only him I've heard that question several times!! and just last night when I was preparing my flash cards my mom told me "Do u think u will continue and use them all?" and they were 499 cards only, and before that she told me "Why not German? it's better" lol

Does it count as necroposting if I post here? Whatever.

WTHeck, I utterly detest people who hate/disrespect learning. Seriously people. My little brother was all playing with his mini-skateboard tech deck things, and my mom was like, "that is such a stupid, wasteful hobby. What a waste of time." (I'm paraphrasing). And then I laughed because I totally agreed with her. IT IS a stupid hobby. But then she looks at me says, "and so is that kanji. What a waste of time."

I'm like "how is that a freaking waste of time?" Is that what kanji are being equated with? A stupid, childhood hobby? I was sooooooooooooooooo mad. I didn't even know where to start. Seriously. Learning in general, and certainly language-learning, is NOT A WASTE OF TIME.

And, like, aren't parents always worried about how their kids aren't gonna get a decent job and make good money? Like, I'm not too concerned about that myself, but, dang, it's not like knowing another language is going to cripple you in your search for a job or career.

Wow. I really can't stand ignorant comments like that. Whatever, apparently people who say stuff like that are the authority on everything, so I think there's an important lesson to learn from this: KANJI ARE JUST A STUPID WASTE-OF-TIME CHILDREN's HOBBY!

Some days... too many days, I wish I never would have started. I've been pretty depressed lately when I look at the amount of time I've put in compared to the level I'm at. Had I been studying a language like Spanish I have no doubt I would have been much, much better.

Some days I feel like I'm in a bad relationship and I'm afraid to get out because I've sunk in too much time already.

So I guess my discouraging person is... me. I realize how important attitude is, but it has been hard to shake this feeling as of late- maybe I just don't love it like many people here do.

i don't think a lot of people realize how much time it really DOES take into learning a language... it's not something that magically happens overnight (or over several months) you'll notice improvements little by little though so don't ever give up... i understand new things every day... trust me Spanish has it's own set of problems to deal with too... (like converting verb forms and knowing the right sex of the words) to me Spanish seems much harder than Japanese... only beginner Spanish is easy

your friends and family will come to respect you more once you are finally at a decent conversation level of Japanese I would imagine... then they could see you in action

I too often feel like I am studying the wrong language. Japan has the second largest economy but has been stagnant for decades and will fall as America falls. American stocks have dropped below 7,000 and are worth less now than they were 12 years ago. Most the world's leading economists have predicted our collapse for years.

China is the economy of the future and those who master it now will get a head start on everyone else. Japanese is the language of now. By the time I am fluent, it will be the language of the yesterday. Chinese is the language of tomorrow. I don't like the sound of Chinese being spoken so it is difficult for me to become motivated to put in the 30 minutes or so a day needed to build a foundation for later study. So onward with Japanese.

bodhisamaya Wrote:I too often feel like I am studying the wrong language. Japan has the second largest economy but has been stagnant for decades and will fall as America falls. American stocks have dropped below 7,000 and are worth less now than they were 12 years ago. Most the world's leading economists have predicted our collapse for years.

China is the economy of the future and those who master it now will get a head start on everyone else. Japanese is the language of now. By the time I am fluent, it will be the language of the yesterday. Chinese is the language of tomorrow. I don't like the sound of Chinese being spoken so it is difficult for me to become motivated to put in the 30 minutes or so a day needed to build a foundation for later study. So onward with Japanese.

Finally this thread lives up to it's name?

bodhisamaya Wrote:I too often feel like I am studying the wrong language. Japan has the second largest economy but has been stagnant for decades and will fall as America falls. American stocks have dropped below 7,000 and are worth less now than they were 12 years ago. Most the world's leading economists have predicted our collapse for years.

China is the economy of the future and those who master it now will get a head start on everyone else. Japanese is the language of now. By the time I am fluent, it will be the language of the yesterday. Chinese is the language of tomorrow. I don't like the sound of Chinese being spoken so it is difficult for me to become motivated to put in the 30 minutes or so a day needed to build a foundation for later study. So onward with Japanese.

One of the worst reasons to study a language is for economic advantage. I saw a statistic the other day: Within a few years, China will have more English speakers than the US.

Jarvik7 Wrote:One of the worst reasons to study a language is for economic advantage. I saw a statistic the other day: Within a few years, China will have more English speakers than the US.

That would still represent less than 25% of the total population of China.

It depends on what that economic advantage is. I was a casino dealer in Las Vegas for 8 years. I made three times the annual income I do now. I used most of that money to help my favorite charitable causes. But unfortunately I also witnessed people sitting at my gaming tables overwhelmed by the environment they were in and throwing away their lives in a matter of hours pretty much on a daily basis. I returned to Hawaii and began studying Japanese because I thought it might be a way to earn enough to continue doing positive without being a link in the chain of destroyed lives. I have grown to love the Japanese culture and people but in the beginning it was a purely financial motivation.

bodhisamaya Wrote:China is the economy of the future ...

Perhaps. They certainly have a shot at it if they pursue market economics. But lest we forget, they have a political system that may well prove to be quite at odds with the kind of economic system it will probably take to become the economy of the future. Right now, they've been more or less living off of others' coattails and, we could argue, others' foolishness, too. Suddenly, that paradigm has run smack into trouble.

My guess is that they'll get there, but that there is still an ocean of tears between where they are now and that goal. It's hard for me to see how the conflict between the existing political situation and the conditions that will likely have to be met for China to become the economy of the future can be resolved without eventual internal violence. History clearly suggests that this has been the Chinese way for many millennia.

And for economic benefit, there is still one language that bestrides the Earth like a colossus: the one we are using right now. That's not always going to be true of course, but it's very, very difficult to argue that it won't continue to be true in the lifetime of anyone alive today.

Wally Wrote:And for economic benefit, there is still one language that bestrides the Earth like a colossus: the one we are using right now. That's not always going to be true of course, but its very, very difficult to argue that it won't continue to be true in the lifetime of anyone alive today.

LOL it really is easy to forget that we speak a very economically beneficial language when all you do all day is try your best to learn another one.

Which Chinese language are we speaking of here?

kazelee Wrote:Which Chinese language are we speaking of here?

Gan, obviously.

Quite a while ago on this forum people were talking about how the younger and the older people view Japanese differently. One thing is that the older generation has this feeling that Japanese is impossible to learn.

Well, I have a really funny co-teacher at my high school here in Japan that's a pretty independent thinker. The students were off doing some activity we gave them, and we got into the topic of learning Japanese and what Japanese people think about foreigners learning Japanese. He starts laughing during the conversation we were having and stops the class. They all look up, and he says "So, we were wondering, how many of you think that it's hard for foreigners to learn Japanese." A good majority of the class raises their hand.

Now, I only speak English to the students because that's my job--they've never heard me speak Japanese. But my coteacher says to me, "Okay, now, say something to them in Japanese."

I turned to the class and said something like, "Well, I can't really say that it's NOT difficult for foreigners to learn Japanese. I can only say that I've been teaching you English for a while and that seems like its pretty difficult for you! And of course, I learned French in high school, but could never understand anything. So, if it's true that Japanese is hard for foreigners to learn, don't you think it just has something to do with the fact that foreign languages are hard to learn!"

Anyway, the kids were suprised, and it created a bit of a stir!

Tzadeck Wrote:Now, I only speak English to the students because that's my job--they've never heard me speak Japanese. But my coteacher says to me, "Okay, now, say something to them in Japanese."

I turned to the class and said something like, "Well, I can't really say that it's NOT difficult for foreigners to learn Japanese. I can only say that I've been teaching you English for a while and that seems like its pretty difficult for you! And of course, I learned French in high school, but could never understand anything. So, if it's true that Japanese is hard for foreigners to learn, don't you think it just has something to do with the fact that foreign languages are hard to learn!"

Anyway, the kids were suprised, and it created a bit of a stir!

Dood...you rate 10/10 on the bad ass scale! Way to stick it to 'em brah!

yes, i agree that learning a language strictly for economic means is probably not be the best way to go about things. I think having fun and enjoying the language itself should be an important reason.

saizen Wrote:Dood...you rate 10/10 on the bad ass scale! Way to stick it to 'em brah!

Can't agree more. Totally badass.

Tzadeck Wrote:One thing is that the older generation has this feeling that Japanese is impossible to learn.

I'll be 59 in June, so maybe I don't fit that mold.

Wally Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:One thing is that the older generation has this feeling that Japanese is impossible to learn.

I'll be 59 in June, so maybe I don't fit that mold.

Do you mean that you're 59 and you're learning Japanese? I meant that the Japanese older generation has a tendency to view Japanese as impossible to learn for foreigners. I was referring to way back in this discussion.


But there could be a tendency from this side of things too, and if there is you're certainly breaking the mold!

I feel the sentiment I mentioned in a broad way in Japan. To be Japanese is still, and might always be, to be Japanese by blood. Even living in Japan, speaking Japanese, becoming a Japanese citizen, many people still won't *really* think of you as Japanese. Actually, I always wondered what weird mishaps in language happen to people who get Japanese citizenship but aren't Japanese by blood. That is, concerning words like 外国人 and　日本人. I think people couldn't really call you a foreigner, but I don't think most people would really think of you as Japanese either. Anyone know what is said in these situations?

Contrast this to America. We don't differentiate strongly at all. I remember once having a conversation where, because I was talking fast and not paying attention, I tried to pass the Beatles off as American music--just because they're such a big part of our culture--to which someone had to remind me, "Hey man, they weren't Americans." It's not like I was trying to claim them for us, it's more that if you're in America you're basically already on your way to be considered an American, at least in part (unless you happen to be a member of one of the chosen groups experiencing racism at the given moment).

I'm going to disagree with that. "New York woman dies at 84" for woman who lived in Vermont since she was single-digit years old, and all that.

~J

I always get frustrated with how often I forget things (I've forgotten the word for stairs so many times かいだん、かいだん、かいだん) but, the more I think about it, the more I realize that these forgotten words will eventually become cemented as well as words like 美しい、ばか、行きましょう、中学校, etc. It just takes... time and I'm impatient.

That's my motivational thought for the day, not that it's revolutionary.

Tzadeck Wrote:

Wally Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:One thing is that the older generation has this feeling that Japanese is impossible to learn.

I'll be 59 in June, so maybe I don't fit that mold.

Do you mean that you're 59 and you're learning Japanese? I meant that the Japanese older generation has a tendency to view Japanese as impossible to learn for foreigners. I was referring to way back in this discussion.


But there could be a tendency from this side of things too, and if there is you're certainly breaking the mold!

I did misunderstand your comment at first, but I see what you mean. I don't know about breaking the mold, but if dementia tries to grab me, it will find a kicking, screaming, biting adversary.

Not that it will do much good. ^_^

Wally Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:One thing is that the older generation has this feeling that Japanese is impossible to learn.

I'll be 59 in June, so maybe I don't fit that mould.

Give it up, you're too old, and the rest of you are too young.