I'm at the point now that I need to get a dictionary.

I've searched the forums, and there seems to be 2 recommendations:

Get a -good- dedicated dictionary (Casio XD-GW6900 was recommended a year ago, but now?).
Get a DS and Kanji Sonomama Rakubiki Jiten.

I want to use said dictionary to play games sometimes, so the DS one doesn't seem to be a good idea... Unless I want to buy a second DS. Also, the screen is a tad small.

But the price of the Casio is... High. It's not that I can't spend that much, it's just that I'd rather spend my money as wisely as possible.

Has anyone got any sage advice for me?

Thanks

Edit: 3 more options, actually... Some suggested PocketPC software, though not which software... And Declan makes what appears to be a good PC-based dictionary.. And it's possible to just use a web-based dictionary. I throw them out there because they're options, not necessarily because I think they are best.

If you use a pc based solution, don't use edict or anything related to it. Don't use any dictionaries intended for use by westerners either. They are all really bad.

You can buy the Kenkyuusha daiwaei/daieiwa (the so called green goddess - although I think it's a stupid nickname) dictionaries in epwing format and use those with most of the better pda/pc based dictionary readers. That is the best bilingual dictionary in my opinion. For a monolingual dictionary (which you should eventually transition yourself to), get either Koujien (the most complete) or Daijisen (easier to read definitions in more modern language). EPWING dictionaries tend to run 7000-10000en each, which makes a portable electronic dictionary start to look more attractive (PRO: more content for cost, portable CON: potentially harder to use).

I'm the one that recommended the GW-6900/6800 a year ago and it still remains the best model to get. However, it's out of production since January 2008 when Casio updated all the hardware to Dataplus4 but never released an equivalent 国語系 model.

[Katsuo]

Jarvik7 Wrote:I'm the one that recommended the GW-6900/6800 a year ago and it still remains the best model to get. However, it's out of production since January 2008 when Casio updated all the hardware to Dataplus4 but never released an equivalent 国語系 model.

XD-GW6900 vs. XD-GP6900

I have the GW-6900. I like the CASIO models. After figuring out more of its functions, searching became really fast and easy. I also like that it stores a history of words I looked up (and I can choose to manually store the word in a list if I want).

Get a dictionary that has support for kanji recognition via writing. Other than that, the rest is up to you. I'd recommend getting one that has better J->J than J->E, but not everyone wants to do J->J. Find out online which models have the better and worse search designs (I think CASIO and SEIKO are recommended for their searching capabilities).

If I could do it again, I *probably* would go for a cheaper CASIO model which has decent J->J and kanji recognition via writing. The extra $100+ could be used for something else in your studies.

Despite that though, I'm still quite happy with my dictionary and it has made studying much easier. I used to be so frustrated when I got to kanji compounds I didn't know -- especially if my Kanji Learner's Dictionary didn't have the compound.

Katsuo Wrote:

Jarvik7 Wrote:I'm the one that recommended the GW-6900/6800 a year ago and it still remains the best model to get. However, it's out of production since January 2008 when Casio updated all the hardware to Dataplus4 but never released an equivalent 国語系 model.

XD-GW6900 vs. XD-GP6900

That does have some nice content and is probably the best one to get now, but its still not really comparable to gw6800. Personally I'd wait until January if I could and get a 2009 hw model.

Thanks for the advice everyone. (And I always welcome more!)

I probably should have stated: I'm not yet to that point, but I definitely want to do J->J with it.

For now, I think I'm going to limp along with online dictionaries (and maybe the DS one) and see what else comes my way. After trying to get shipping prices, I found I couldn't import it from Amazon (ugh) and it'll be even higher in price than I thought. If I'm going to spend that much money, I'll probably wait until next year's models as you suggest.

Why not use edict? Ok, edict has its limits but it's still a pretty good dictionary. Actually, I'm interested to know what people think about edict. Do most people use it or do you find it too limiting?

If you want the best, of course go for the green goddess or 研究社新和英大辞典. As for 国語: 広辞苑 (koujien) or 大辞林 (daijirin). Daijisen seems to be good also.

In all honesty it's not to hard to find some of the E-J dictionaries online. You can probably find the green goddess to preview.

I bought the second DS.
Well, it's a bit busted up and all that so it was cheaper, but I do loves me my Rakubiki Jiten.

There's no reason to use EDICT when there are lots of far better dictionaries out there that are just as free as Free Beer if you have a web browser, or if you just use Firefox and use Mycroft to add them to your search bar. (Which I do and love.)

yahoo.co.jp (don't know what it uses, but it's great)
excite.co.jp (uses kenkyuusha)
goo.ne.co.jp (uses sanseido for 国語)
alc.co.jp (weak English translations, but great numbers of word, phrases, and example sentences.)

I don't see the point in subscribing to the kenkyuusha service at these levels of Japanese, to be honest.

And if you buy an electronic dictionary, a lot of them have Genius, which IMO is just as good as Kenkyuusha. It covers a lot of stuff that Kenkyuusha omits or defines poorly, and Kenkyuusha covers stuff that Genius misses. Since I have a hand-held electronic dictionary, it's not a big issue, so I can access both, but I have noticed that one will avoid words that the other covers. No idea why.

Rakubiki Jiten for the DS also uses Genius, BTW.

Also, I agree that EPWING dictionaries are very nice, too, if you can find the software in the US, or somehow import it. It can get kind of spendy.

EDICT is an open-source project which isn't bad in a pinch... but Professionals Who Write Dictionaries For A Living will almost always do a better job, IMO. So since there are so many excellent Japanese dictionaries out there, I don't see the point in using something like EDICT these days.

rich_f Wrote:yahoo.co.jp (don't know what it uses, but it's great)

Actually the dictionary I have (the GW-6900) uses the same J->E and it also shares one of the same J->J.

I think I ended up looking up the same word twice in the J->E and thought to myself, "These example sentences seem awfully familiar..."


Some people might be peeved over this if it happened to them, but I think it should be a remainder to people; unless you aren't at/don't like use to a computer often, dictionaries should really be used for their extra capabilities, not the definitions so much.

Mostly , I love my dictionary for kanji look up. I think if I started studying Japanese before kanji writing recognition and after the advent of the internet, I would have no reason to buy a dictionary.

Yeah, when I took Japanese in grad school, we spent a week or so just learning how to use the Nelson kanji dictionary... which is probably the most brutal way to have to look up kanji I can think of offhand. It has its uses (doorstop, weapon) but ugh.... that's a totally un-fun way to look up stuff.

Thanks again for all the answers, everyone. As I'm almost always near a computer with internet, I'm going to just limp along using that until the new Casio comes out next year.

I wanted some clarification on the actual differences between the casio models' GP, GT, and SP, and I guess whatever else there may be. Im at a loss as to what they signify, what are the real differences between, say the GW6800/6900 and a GP6900 ?? Unfortunately I can't find specs in English on the GW series, I suppose thats because its been discontinued as you said. Also, what will the HW series offer in 2009, is that something worth waiting for, it kind of sounds like it, but unfortunately I can't really browse Japanese sites that would tell me anything about it.

I see where the models boast various dictionaries, and they must be targeted at certain consumer groups, I just cant figure out which is for what target group and where and why I would be better off getting GW / HW.

Casio XD-GP6900
http://store.aikotradingstore.com/casioxdgp6900.html

Casio XD-GT6800 Ex-Word
http://store.aikotradingstore.com/caxdex.html

Casio XD-SP6600
http://store.aikotradingstore.com/casioxdsp6600.html

Those are a few of the models I found on that one site that lists the specs of each in English... Prices vary greatly... And im sure there are better places to buy an electronic dictionary, but the question is which one.

Any additional info on this would be appreciated.

Thanks

The reason that I recommended the GW6800 so strongly is because it's a kokugo language model. All of the other models are focused on foreign languages (english, korean, chinese, etc etc), business, medicine, travel or passing highschool exams. While you might think an English focused model might be useful for beginning students, mostly it's stuff like TOEIC prep which would be of no use at all. The GW6800 is mostly J-J dictionaries, but it has many many obscure and specialized dictionaries that are perfect for advanced students (especially me since I study Japanese literature formally). It does have genius/progressive J<->E dictionaries so it's useful to beginning students as well. The only thing I found really lacking was the E-E dictionary - it only had very basic definitions and lacked many words. basically the GW6800 is a dictionary that will last you forever - you'll never outgrow it. However like I said it's discontinued and the fact that it's a 2007 hardware model means it lacks some features the newer ones have.

Right away you should remove the XD-GT6800 from your list of choices. It's a 2006 hardware model meaning it lacks handwriting recognition. Without that you might as well go with a Seiko which have much nicer keyboards. The best all-around current model is probably the GP6900 which is classified as a general-use model. The SP6600 is classified as business and foreign travel so it has a lot of stuff you don't need at the expense of stuff you might want.

Another thing I recommend for beginning students is the Kodansha Kanji add-on dictionary. All denshi jisho except for some really bad romaji ones don't have an English kanji dictionary by default. Installing that gives you one.

By the way, don't buy from Aiko trading, their markup is almost 100%.

Thanks so much for the in depth reply, so essentially you're saying if you need one now go with the GW6800 otherwise wait for the HW series in 2009. I think I'll be able to manage without until next year, do they usually release right into January or will it be 2nd quarter. Not that you'd necessarily know, heh.

Is there a site that details the upcoming HW series? Even if its in Japanese I'll see if I can decode a bit of it. Is there a particular model number I should be watching for in 09, or is that stuff not known yet?

Thanks again.

PriceJapan.com will import pretty much anything if you ask them. They'll charge you a fee to get it for you, and there are shipping fees, and a credit card fee, but it's not too awful. They usually base their prices off of the cheapest price they can find on kakaku. I personally haven't used them, but I haven't heard anything bad about them. That said, you should still check them out and do your homework. I remember seeing a thread on them at notebookreview.com's message boards... somewhere... but I don't remember hearing anything bad.

There are other companies that will send you stuff as well (Conics and Geekstuff4u, I think.) Shop around and get a quote that includes everything. And find out what they'll do for you if you need to get it fixed.

Of course, if you can get to Japan, that's the best way to do it, because then you can try them out in the store before you buy them.

EDIT: and I have to say, the keyboards on the recent Sharps really suck compared to the keyboard on my old Sharp. Mushy as hell, and it can't keep up with me. -_- In 2-3 years' time, when it comes time to replace this one, I'll take a more serious look at the Casios.

Thanks for the retailers suggestions rich_f, I've also found some users on ebay who are selling various electronic dictionaries from Japan for much less than aiko trading.

I figure I'll just wait, save up some money, and buy one of the Casio HWxxxx models next year.

Canon Wordtank V300
http://www.smartimports.net/product.php?...252&page=1
Best price on the internet at smartimports.net

* Backlit LED display
* USB
* Stylus pen for writing kanji
* SD card slot (4GB SD card at Newegg.com $9.75)
* Built-in MP3 player and headphone jack
* Kanji stroke order animation and drawing test function. (Includes Chinese kanji!)
* Menu system displays in English or Japanese
* Wordtank USB Dictionary software that lets you select text on the PC, you just push the shortcut key and the search result is displayed in the electronic dictionary.

* Kanji dictionary with 13,112 entries.
* Genius Japanese / English dictionary with 82,000 entries.
* Genius English / Japanese dictionary with 95,000 entries.
* Super Daijirin Japanese / Japanese dictionary with 252,000 entries.
* Meikyo Japanese Dictionary with 70,000 entries.
* Classical Japanese Dictionary with 43,500 entries.
* Japanese Proverb Dictionary with 4,293 entries.
* Oxford Advanced Learner's English dictionary with 183,500 entries.
* Four Kanji phrase dictionary with 1,422 entries.

That's still not a very good price:

http://kakaku.com/item/20752010362/

Have a look and see. Your best bet would still be someone like PriceJapan, who goes off of Kakaku's lowest price.

For now, if you have DS, just use the kanji sonomama rakubiki jiten.

Personally I've noticed that 漢字そのまま楽日 is pretty much as good as some of the best "real" 電子辞書 on the market, especially considering the price. I recommend it highly but of course, if you want to use it with games on your DS, you're in a fix. (Personally I play my DS by the computer and use jisho.org to look words up).

rich_f Wrote:And if you buy an electronic dictionary, a lot of them have Genius, which IMO is just as good as Kenkyuusha. It covers a lot of stuff that Kenkyuusha omits or defines poorly, and Kenkyuusha covers stuff that Genius misses. Since I have a hand-held electronic dictionary, it's not a big issue, so I can access both, but I have noticed that one will avoid words that the other covers. No idea why.

Is it possible you only have the 和英中辞典 and not the 新和英大辞典? My experience has been that the latter is much better than Genius so I am curious.

rich_f Wrote:That's still not a very good price:

http://kakaku.com/item/20752010362/

Have a look and see. Your best bet would still be someone like PriceJapan, who goes off of Kakaku's lowest price.

For now, if you have DS, just use the kanji sonomama rakubiki jiten.

Some great prices. I hope some of those stores ship to USA.

No, none of them will ship to the USA (that I know of, anyway), that's why you need either:

1) *Really* good friends in Japan

or

2) Use a service like Conics, PriceJapan, or GeekStuff4U, who will do what your really good friend would do, but they will charge you a small fee for it. They basically buy it for you in Japan, then send it to you. You should also be clear on what warranty services you're going to get from them, too. Some of them will send it in for service for you, but you're going to have to pay shipping all around.

Buying electronics from Japan is a royal pain in the butt, because most Japanese retailers will not ship overseas. If you find one that does, by all means, let me know.

With the Kenkyuusha vs. Genius thing, my experience with Kenkyuusha is based on the online version they have over at excite.co.jp. I'm not willing to invest more than I already have into another J-E dictionary, considering that I won't be going J-E for much longer. It's a good dictionary, but it's not OHMYGOD good. It has weak points. Genius has weak points, too. Yahoo's dictionary is good, but it has weak points as well.

You have to figure out what you want out of a device, what you *need*, and what you can afford. Somewhere in there, you'll find the best solution, I guess.

I prefer having a dedicated handheld electronic dictionary over a DS because I hate waiting for the DS to boot up, and because my dictionary has some extra functions that the DS version doesn't have. (Like a bigger screen and bigger text.) But that's what works for me. Some people don't need the extras, so $40 for kanji sono mama is all they need to spend.

And if you're wondering, yes, I got mine when I was in Japan.

Do the Casio Electronic Jishos use EPWING format for their dictionaries? Or is it a proprietary Casio format?