No one uses EPWING It's a computer-only standard.

Ah, bummer. So any additional dictionaries that can be added must come from Casio, or is there an electronic dictionary standard; meaning that you could potentially buy dictionaries from 3rd parties??

As far I know Casio only works with Casio, Seiko only with Seiko, Canon only with Canon, etc.

rich_f Wrote:With the Kenkyuusha vs. Genius thing, my experience with Kenkyuusha is based on the online version they have over at excite.co.jp. I'm not willing to invest more than I already have into another J-E dictionary, considering that I won't be going J-E for much longer. It's a good dictionary, but it's not OHMYGOD good. It has weak points. Genius has weak points, too. Yahoo's dictionary is good, but it has weak points as well.

The excite one is just the stripped down 中辞典. In my opinion, the full dictionary is "OHMYGOD" good, especially for those doing sentences. It has vastly more example sentences than any J-J dictionary.

Jarvik7 Wrote:No one uses EPWING It's a computer-only standard.

Not exactly, EBPocket works on Windows Mobile 6. I own a HTC P3400i Windows Mobile phone which I purchased for about 260$ (with a 4gb SD memory card) and I have loaded every free epwing dictionary that I could find on the net.

Windows mobiles are pocket computers.

It's not a standard embraced by manufactures of consumer electronics such as electronic dictionaries. Furthermore you can't add your own software to them so no third party can make a reader.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Windows mobiles are pocket computers.

It's not a standard embraced by manufactures of consumer electronics such as electronic dictionaries. Furthermore you can't add your own software to them so no third party can make a reader.

Actually, I am not sure, but as far as I understood these things, the EPWING format is the standard established by Japanese consumer electronic manufactures to allow dictionary publishers to easily release a dictionary in a format that could be licensed for electronic dictionaries. I thought that most of them use the EPWING format. Furthermore, I thought that if you have one of the higher end electronic dictionaries, the dictionary cards they accept are nothing more than flash memory with an EPWING dictionary on them. I assumed that the versions of these dictionaries that are floating around the net were at some point copied from these cards. Admittedly, I could be wrong here though...

If only your assumptions were truth my denshi jisho would be a lot more useful

EPWING was drafted before denshi jisho existed, by Fujitsu who to the best of my knowledge has never made a denshi jisho. It was created as a standard for dictionary CD-ROMs to be used with dedicated word processors and then later, computers.

The ones from the internet are copies from the computer cdroms. If you look at some of the isos they have the reader software for windows/mac in them.

sub: Casio Ex-word xd-gp9700 or the xd-gp6900

Background:
I'm about to buy a denshi jisho. Not that I -need- to, really. I'm at a level perhaps between level 2 and level 3 of the jlpt.

But I love good dictionaries and like constructing a forest of ideas in my mind using one.
I studied French and German (some Sanskrit as well) in order to achieve fluency of expression in English. I loved tracking down words down to their origins and examining how their association with meaning changed over time. I used to spend a lot of my free time with various unabridged editions of North American dictionaries - till I spent about three months of pay to purchase the entire 20 volume OED.

I can perhaps absorb a good amount of information straight from a good dictionary, to those who are against that - well, I am perhaps one of those who can read a dictionary not just as a reference tool, but as a novel, as a history, as a study of human representation of meaning by symbols. Language acquisition is a by-product.
(One of my hobby project dreams ('maybe-i'll-do-it-someday') was the study of ancient languages to try and understand their relationships with the data structures of the mind. (inspired by neal stephenson's 'snow crash' and my own experience with the ancient Indian science of Mantra shastra.))

So ... given that background ... and the fact that I have gone through each kanji in heisig at least once and can now recognize about 500 odd kanji with readings (having put in about a total of 40 odd hours over the last 6 months into Heisig), and that I am not fluent, but can pretty much communicate whatever I want with 'copy-paste-and-workaround' japanese. And my current dictionary of choice is a Kumon Kokugo jiten with furigana for all kanji and about 10,000 words (however, I have a feeling that my dictionary mining will perhaps gain a lot of momentum with the jump feature in the denshi jisho ... ne?) now ...

Question:

Is the ex-word 9700 with the better ei-wa wa-ei dictionaries (notably the big kenkyusha and the big ei-wa genius) a better option than the 6900 with the big nihon kokugo daijiten and a lot of cultural books about old japanese, haiku, keigo and the likes ?

I find myself leaning towards the 6900. Heavily. Because, I could add the 'green goddess' to the 6900 (would I really need the big genius ei-wa or the reader's ?)
BUT I CANNOT ADD THE big three volume nihon-kokugo-daijiten to the 9700 (as I don't see it as being available in the Casio catalog I got from Joshin.)

So, given that I decide to go with the 6900 ... is there any major difference in the hardware between the 6900 and the 9700 ? like the input method or the jump function or in the base software like the flash card functionality or the text file reader functionality ?

If there isn't, then I go with the 6900 + green goddess.

What say?

thanks a lot for your input!

You will rely on kokugo dictionaries more than bilingual dictionaries as your studies progress so I would recommend getting the monolingual focused model. If you're not at that level yet you can add on the kenkyuusha dict for the time being (and maybe the english kanji dictionary too).

Thanks a lot!
Done.
xd-gp6900+green goddess ordered from amazon.

keshav Wrote:If there isn't, then I go with the 6900 + green goddess.

Having the electronic version of the green goddess on my computer, the examples sentences it has are really awesome.

aaah. http://kakaku.com lists many cheaper options for buying the 6900.
http://kakaku.com/item/20753010419/
It can be had for as little as 32700 jpy (with shipping) as compared with the 36800 jpy on amazon vs the 42000 jpy gurai in midori denka.

I will perhaps cancel the amazon order, since none of the online shops seem to be able to fulfill the order before 3rd October anyway.

So if anyone else in Japan is looking for the cheapest deals - kakaku.com seems to be the place to go.

If you're in Japan, Yodobashi can be a pretty good deal if you happen to get it during a campaign. I got mine for 2man off and then I got 23% yodobashi points (instead of the normal 10%) as well.

hey jarvik san,

yodabashi lists special price as
特価：￥44,800 (税込) 定価：オープン価格
消費税総額表示です
on http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/81844544.html
it also says 20% off at the top.
Does that mean a 20% off of 44,800?
or does Special Price: 44800
mean that it is the price after discount?

thanks!

It means you would pay 44800円 and then get 20% of that as Yodobashi points (aka store credit). Normally you only get 10% back as points.

aah ... sokka... ryokai.
arigatou!
The amazon.co.jp deal comes to exactly the same as the current yodobashi price.
44800 - 20% is 34800. I should've checked for the campaigns.
I should've cancelled the amazon order yesterday itself.
Anyways ... but the dictionary is now already in transit.

If not for this thread I wouldn't have discovered the nihon kokugo daijiten and would've bought the 9700!
Thanks for the help in choosing the dictionary!

I fully recommend this pda/dictionary/everything hybrid.

http://www.japaneselanguagetools.com/

You can download a stupid amount of dictionaries to put on it. Use it to surf the interwebs, email, watch films, listen to music, read books, manga, SRS. in short, anything.

Can you get GPS on your wordtank? no. can you on this bad boy, Yes.

Above everything, this is the one thing that has had the biggest beneficial impact on my Japanese studies. (2nd would have to be AJATT and this site)


[not affiliated in any way, but this thoroughly kicks the arse of the wordtanks etc.]

tokyostyle Wrote:Best of all it's under 2man.

I was like 'Wow, that's a great price!' until I realized you are in Tokyo. Buying things from overseas is so much more pricey. -sigh-

As a bright spot, I'm now at the point that when someone says '2man' I get an immediate value in my head, instead of having to think 'What was man again?' Hehe. (As a bonus, I got the USD price conversion in my head a fraction of a second later as well.)

mistamark Wrote:I fully recommend this pda/dictionary/everything hybrid.

http://www.japaneselanguagetools.com/

You can download a stupid amount of dictionaries to put on it. Use it to surf the interwebs, email, watch films, listen to music, read books, manga, SRS. in short, anything.

Edict really doesn't count as a dictionary.

mentat_kgs Wrote:

mistamark Wrote:I fully recommend this pda/dictionary/everything hybrid.

http://www.japaneselanguagetools.com/

You can download a stupid amount of dictionaries to put on it. Use it to surf the interwebs, email, watch films, listen to music, read books, manga, SRS. in short, anything.

Edict really doesn't count as a dictionary.

Haha, it's more like a toy you outgrow.

alyks Wrote:

mentat_kgs Wrote:

mistamark Wrote:I fully recommend this pda/dictionary/everything hybrid.

http://www.japaneselanguagetools.com/

You can download a stupid amount of dictionaries to put on it. Use it to surf the interwebs, email, watch films, listen to music, read books, manga, SRS. in short, anything.

Edict really doesn't count as a dictionary.

Haha, it's more like a toy you outgrow.

While I partially agree about the pre-installed Edict, you should read the post again. Does Kenkyusha count as a 'real' dictionary? how about 三省堂必携辞書 (Sanseido)? Those two are among the 37 on there at the moment, even a Kogo jiten dictionary.

mistamark Wrote:

alyks Wrote:

mentat_kgs Wrote:Edict really doesn't count as a dictionary.

Haha, it's more like a toy you outgrow.

While I partially agree about the pre-installed Edict, you should read the post again. Does Kenkyusha count as a 'real' dictionary? how about 三省堂必携辞書 (Sanseido)? Those two are among the 37 on there at the moment, even a Kogo jiten dictionary.

The only dictionary in my heart is the Super Daijirin 3.

Quote:Haha, it's more like a toy you outgrow.

Sure, there are some better dictionaries but Edict is more than a toy. I would say it's about on par with the lesser commercial dictionaries like Genius. Edict doesn't provide deep understanding of a word but it provides with a quick translation, which can be more useful when you're just trying to quickly understand a word. Reading through a J-J definition or even a GG definition can easily take a minute or two. Looking up the word on Edict, especially through something like Rikaichan, will give you a rough meaning in a few seconds. Plus, Edict is an ongoing project and the result of a collaborative effort. So, it has the potential to eventually outpace other dictionaries by including new words and expressions which would take a long time to find their way into traditional dictionaries.

If you find that you've outgrown Edict, I would suggest that you consider contributing to it. Adding or amending an entry only takes a few minutes. Edict is a community dictionary and it will only be as good as the community is willing to make it.

(Hope I've convinced at least one person to come and help us !)

I agree with Transparent_Aluminum; Edict is really, really underestimated by a lot of people. It's nice to have both Edict & Kenkyuusha around. I know some people will never accept it (and it's been discussed here before), but don't dismiss it out of hand.