I've been in Japanese only land here for a few days. I thought about writing a guide on how to transition to monolingual, but I decided that wouldn't work because it's not a specific skill so much as it is something you just do and get used to. Anyway, I wrote up some helpful guidelines on how to more efficiently transition:

1. Do not worry about having a solid understanding. This feeling of the meanings being shaky is your brain resisting the change and craving an English meaning. Ignore it.

2. Look forward to recursive searching. It's an awesome vocab builder.

3. Be selective in your sentence picking.

4. When you can, put as much context as possible on your cards. You know, I learned the word "quintessential" by hearing it used a bunch of times. I've never looked it up or even have any kind of definition attached to it. But when I heard it used in context the implied meaning was hard to miss. Example:

食堂のおじさんが、限定プリンの準備をする。

There are two words here I don't know, 限定 and 準備. But having seen the show I know two things that are relevant already, there are only 12 プリン given out each day, and that this is describing what the lunch guy is doing when he's taking the プリン out of the freezer. The definitions I had a hard time with are suddenly understandable.

If you don't understand much of a sentence, there's no point in having the sentence at all. If you were just starting off in Italian and I gave you this sentence
Ecco la mia mano.
it would be pointless without a translation even though it's very simple (Here is my hand).

You can't start from nothing. You need some intelligible starting point and with this sort of system it has to be another language that you know. Once you already have enough vocab to express some concepts, only then can you build up from there, expressing more advanced concepts in terms of simpler ones and/or by inference from context.

For me, at first I needed the English translations. If I looked up the definition of a word in a 国語 (J-J) dictionary, I would be lost. Now I am more comfortable with 国語 definitions, although I will sometimes need the English for a word here or there. With the SRS, I often find I ignore the English translation now even when I have one. However, when there is insufficient context etc. I still need some English, and if the sentence has come out of a dictionary I'll put in the English as a reference but I won't read it unless I have some uncertainty.

Yup, but alyks has the point with number 1.
Your japanese knowledge will take some time to get as solid as your english. The beginning will be allways painful. Bear the pain and go for glory.

I'm not saying you shouldn't understand it, Raichu, I'm just saying that if you have the feeling of it being shaky. What I'm talking about is when you understand the words and grammar, but you just don't get the solid feeling a 1 to 1 Japanese to English meaning would give you.

It's kinda hard to explain, but do you see what I'm trying to say?

Maybe. Are you saying that if you only get the gist of what it means but you don't feel confident, then you should accept it for the moment and press on?

In which case there is some value in that, but also the risk that it might lead you astray. Maybe I'm not as adventurous as you, as I would prefer limiting myself to what's certain. If I learn something sketchily, I then tend to lose confidence and stutter when I actually try to speak Japanese. If I limit myself to what I can rely on, then I can use it in speech more effectively.

Yeah, I suppose. You don't have to understand everything you read 100%.

And for the record, I'm talking about things you read, not things you put into your SRS. The sentences you put in you should definitely have 100% understanding.

Edit:

You know what? I'm not satisfied with that explanation. Here's what I think:

AJATT is about immersing yourself and getting as much Japanese exposure as possible by reading or watching or whatever. This is the primary goal. Sentence picking comes secondary and is used to remember what you learn when you read. I consider a sentence learned when you know the function and meaning of all the words in the sentence. So the ones that you learn that stretch your knowledge a bit, those are the ones you put into your SRS. Sentence picking.

So when you go through a book with a monodictionary, you should be trying to understand as much as you can with it. But reasonably you're probably not going to get a 100% understanding on a lot. So what you do when you come across a sentence you don't understand or has words you can't find in the dictionary, learn as you much as you can from the sentence and move on. There's no point in wasting your time and energy to get frustrated over it. Eventually you'll be ready. Enough exposure and you'll eventually be ready for it. You run across something similar and it will just click. Then you put it into your SRS.

That explanation is one I'm satisfied with.

alyks Wrote:Yeah, I suppose. You don't have to understand everything you read 100%.

And for the record, I'm talking about things you read, not things you put into your SRS. The sentences you put in you should definitely have 100% understanding.

Edit:

You know what? I'm not satisfied with that explanation. Here's what I think:

AJATT is about immersing yourself and getting as much Japanese exposure as possible by reading or watching or whatever. This is the primary goal. Sentence picking comes secondary and is used to remember what you learn when you read. I consider a sentence learned when you know the function and meaning of all the words in the sentence. So the ones that you learn that stretch your knowledge a bit, those are the ones you put into your SRS. Sentence picking.

So when you go through a book with a monodictionary, you should be trying to understand as much as you can with it. But reasonably you're probably not going to get a 100% understanding on a lot. So what you do when you come across a sentence you don't understand or has words you can't find in the dictionary, learn as you much as you can from the sentence and move on. There's no point in wasting your time and energy to get frustrated over it. Eventually you'll be ready. Enough exposure and you'll eventually be ready for it. You run across something similar and it will just click. Then you put it into your SRS.

That explanation is one I'm satisfied with.

Agreed, in a pure selflearning situation, this is no doubt the best idea. When I had just moved to Japan, I had a huge problem conversing with people because as soon as a word i didn't understand or a grammarpoint I hadn't covered came up, I just locked into place and didn't understand anything of the rest. Eventually, I got used to skipping things I didn't get and understood the rest. In the few situations where this general understanding didn't cover the semantics, all I had to do was ask. The most important point however, was that understanding everything 100% wasn't important for a regular conversation. Or understanding a page in a book. Sure, you want to understand everything 100% eventually, and to make output you need garanteed ability... but like alyks is saying, this comes naturally the more you learn, there's no reason to get caught up in 1 or 2 things you do not understand.

However,when you have resources, use them! If you have japanese fiends, ask them! If you have a teacher, ask him or her! And if you have neither, ask US! Some people at this forum are highly talented, and most of us have a lot of determination. If you don't understand it and we can't help you, then you might just as well give up for the moment, and when you understand, come back and teach the rest of us

For example, I tried to translate a song recently (translating songs is a.... female dog) and it said 掌が返る and I had no idea what it ment. I mean of course I understood the words and the grammar, but I didn't see how a palm returning could bear signifigance in the song. I searched on google etc and simply couldn't find a place where it was used to I could understand... so I simply ask my girlfriend and she gave me the basic understanding Maybe not enough so I can use it myself, but at least enough so I can understand it in context!

Summary: If you have resources, use them. If not, just ignore it, it will come to you automatically as you learn and read and immerse yourself more.

Toberoth, please dont take this personaly, but quoting the full text of someone the previous post is kinda anoying. I'm certain more people feel the same as I feel about it.

BTw, I have to lol for that female dog. I was not aware of this expression.

alyks Wrote:You don't have to understand everything you read 100%... I'm talking about things you read, not things you put into your SRS. The sentences you put in you should definitely have 100% understanding...
So when you go through a book with a monodictionary, you should be trying to understand as much as you can with it. But reasonably you're probably not going to get a 100% understanding on a lot.

Oh yeah, I agree. I'm reading a manga at the moment. It takes a long time even though it's fairly simple (Pocket Monster Special, obviously for kids) since I have to look up so many words and phrases. And with all that effort, I only end up understanding about 3/4 of it, but as you say, I keep going.

Quote:So what you do when you come across a sentence you don't understand or has words you can't find in the dictionary, learn as you much as you can from the sentence and move on.

Exactly what I do. If it's important enough I might pop a question on a forum but in the mean time I move on.

Quote:Enough exposure and you'll eventually be ready for it. You run across something similar and it will just click.

Yeah. I find that when I finish something then go back to it later, I often understand more of it, simply because of what I've learnt along the way or from other sources in the mean time.

mentat_kgs Wrote:Toberoth, please dont take this personaly, but quoting the full text of someone the previous post is kinda anoying. I'm certain more people feel the same as I feel about it.

BTw, I have to lol for that female dog. I was not aware of this expression.

I don't really see the problem, unless you have a really small monitor or your mouse lacks a scrollwheel.

If more people dislike it I can stop doing it, but from my perspective, I'm just using the functionality as it was made to be used.

The female dog thing isn't an expression, I just didn't want to use the b word on this forum since it's a lot more mature than most forums I visit.

Actualy it was made to be used as Raichu did. Sorry for the offtopic.

Tobberoth Wrote:If more people dislike it I can stop doing it

yes please...


As for understanding everything 100%... It reminds me of a Batman comic I read as a kid. On the first page, as I was reading, I missed the word "a". However, missing that one tiny word meant that I couldn't understand the rest of the story. Sure, I could see what was happening and I could understand each sentence on its own, but nothing would fit together. I read the entire story again, and nope. The third time, I decided to read it slowly word for word and came across this little "a" that I had missed. Suddenly the light dawned and the whole thing made sense.

The sentence was "For her a death...", in other words, somebody decided to kill her in revenge. What I read was "For her death...", in other words, it seemed like she died but I had no idea how or why, and nothing that followed in consequence made any sense.

So occasions occur where you can't miss even something seemingly insignificant.