activeaero Wrote:Finally met a group of Japanese students at the local coffee shop, which is a rarity here in Alabama, and I think they've taken a liking to me lol. They've asked me out to dinner and then to play pool last night.

Anyways, they gave me a huge confidence boost. After hearing that I had learned over 1,200 Kanji in just 2 months they decided to sort of test my claim. Needless to say they were quite amazed as was I. In fact I was even writing Kanji that THEY couldn't identify lol. It was so reassuring to know that most of Heisigs keywords are in fact a darn accurate representation of the general idea that a native Japanese thinks of when seeing an individual Kanji. For almost every Kanji they wrote the keyword I stated was met with an almost immediate confirmation as being correct.

In fact one of the girls even got me to write down the name of the book and this website because SHE wants to try it out. If that doesn't say something I don't know what does.

Good job. I downplay it now, but the ego boost you get from natives that know how difficult this was for helps quite a bit. You are arming yourself with a powerful tool to help in the next phase of your studies, no matter what path that takes.

To be honest, I thought you were about to say you got one of the girls to write down your number and you got hers. Now that would have been motivation.

That sounds schweet!!!

On another note: I gave myself a funny haircut last night (as a joke) and completely forgot about it. I had a cap on my head when I went to the grocery store. As I was entering I asked myself if I should take the cap off (manners first). I decided not too (how rude of me). I was lucky. I think though, the cashier manage to catch a glimpse of what was beneath as you could see through the cap when up close. She had appeared as if she were trying not to laugh, and stopped making eye contact. I didn't take much note of it at the time.

I've even been walking around all day with it with out noticing. I keep forgetting to cut it. If a friend didn't poke at it from time to time I think would forget totally.

Edit: Blast you Nukemarine. That was my spot. LOL

For people wondering just how useful the strange Kanji is that you're learning, well, I'm finding that at the moment I seem to be seeing the Kanji from Lessons 27-32 -everywhere- here in Japan.

It's pretty motivating to see Kanji from the book in real life. It can get a bit frustrating to recognise all the primitives and not remember the meaning though!! just needs more reps!

activeaero - Nice one!!

activeaero Wrote:<snip> After hearing that I had learned over 1,200 Kanji in just 2 months they decided to sort of test my claim. Needless to say they were quite amazed as was I. In fact I was even writing Kanji that THEY couldn't identify lol. It was so reassuring to know that most of Heisigs keywords are in fact a darn accurate representation of the general idea that a native Japanese thinks of when seeing an individual Kanji. For almost every Kanji they wrote the keyword I stated was met with an almost immediate confirmation as being correct.<snip>

Wow, that sounds fantastic. Instant Nihongo cred, in Alabama no less... what are the odds?

(Speaking of odds, though, I was sitting at the bar in a pizza place tonight, reading a Nihongo book while waiting for my take-out order, and the manager came up and asked "Where did you get that book?" Turns out he's studying Japanese as well... too bad I couldn't think of a way to bring up kanji writing though LOL)

mistamark Wrote:It's pretty motivating to see Kanji from the book in real life. It can get a bit frustrating to recognise all the primitives and not remember the meaning though!! just needs more reps!

The was another bonus I forgot to mention from my encounter with my new Japanese buddies. When they wrote Kanji that I haven't learned yet my brain instantly started assembling all of the primitives that I recognized. That above anything shows the true power of this method. Instead of my brain just going "what the heck is that, just looks like a jumbled mess of lines that I've never seen before" it instead found the "new" Kanji completely familiar and simply lacking in a key word.

Ok i just had to come back and make a comment after some time has passed after finishing. Recently I have been studying vocab and KO2001 and I must say....this book (RTK) makes it not only extrememly fun, but ridiculously easy to remember new vocab. I can not believe i am getting the kanji compounds perfectly right and making mistakes on hiragana spellings lol. I had no idea how powerful of a tool heisig's book is. It has multiplied the pleasure of studying japanese. To all those not finished...i hope this motivates you because your japanese abilities will skyrocket if you put in the effort after finishing this book.

saizen Wrote:Ok i just had to come back and make a comment after some time has passed after finishing. Recently I have been studying vocab and KO2001 and I must say....this book (RTK) makes it not only extrememly fun, but ridiculously easy to remember new vocab. I can not believe i am getting the kanji compounds perfectly right and making mistakes on hiragana spellings lol. I had no idea how powerful of a tool heisig's book is. It has multiplied the pleasure of studying japanese. To all those not finished...i hope this motivates you because your japanese abilities will skyrocket if you put in the effort after finishing this book.

Try doing it while already knowing the onyomi. =]

alyks Wrote:Try doing it while already knowing the onyomi. =]

Show off :^P

I'd imagine, that just about destroys the huge wall of Japanese learning.

Thank you for your encouragement and suggestions a few days ago. I've now gotten rid of all my expired cards, and I'm ready to start relearning the kanji from big red pile. Happily, there is a big green pile, too. I am looking forward to adding new cards one of these days when the red is gone.

Just from reading the first 2 pages, I think I've realized something about our different learning styles. I was envious of people that can do this literally every day, especially people who do, like 50 a day or something. But, while some students have the time (indeed, some even remember better this way), some of us don't. It even seems some people start forgetting a lot if they do too many (from the posts here).

It is easy to get excited after reading that many people learn all Jouyou kanji in 3 months, and try to learn too much at once. For some of us it makes sense to study fewer at a time, and focus on regularity -- whether that's a couple times a day, once a day, or a few days a week. And also review often.

If you will get behind in other stuff (at school, in your life, whatever), and then you have to skip some days in kanji study, that's actually bad. I am also working hard at improving my grammar.

Every day do some review, then learn however many kanji you have time to do -- whether that's 20 or 10 or 5, just to do it is the most important. And to review ones you know first is important, I think.

Also, I now only use RTK for new kanji learning, though I still pick up new kanji as I write, but whether they stick or not, at this point I don't force it -- I will focus on RTK kanji.

Someone even suggested looking up compounds, taking very frequent meanings and working them into your stories -- that's a wonderful idea!

OK, my stats:
RTK: 52 kanji
Previously picked up: ??

Before, I was learning kanji through (some) rote memorization, and more by writing, but writing as an adult you don't repeat many kanji.

I though I only reliably knew less than 50, but it was probably over 100. Add more than half of those 52 RTK kanji (some I already knew), and new ones I've used in writing and have absorbed easier because of RTK, it's probably over 200.

For someone who's been writing (casually) for a while, that probably stinks, but I don't do rote memorization well, so I had given up on literally studying kanji until I found RTK!

If you haven't guessed, I'm for doing small chunks at a time (mostly because that's my only option) but for the people who posted they did a lot but forgot, I'd suggest trying small chunks every day, and that review be the first thing you do each time -- in the end, you might learn faster.

canji Wrote:I've reached 130. I should make it past 132 or 133 by tomorrow.

Yay! Keep going!

kazelee Wrote:I'm 90 percent nocturnal. It's 5am as I post now. I work best when, statically, the human mind should be at its most sluggish. Weird, no?

Hey, who you callin' weird?
;-)

canji Wrote:I made it to 180. I expect that I'll probably be stuck on 180 until the next one I learn.

Usually the way it works.

AdamLeliel Wrote:450!

I started doing this last week (I think?), for motivation:
http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/nec...0014-2.jpg

It now has the number "400" on and four sheets instead of two.

The picture is too small to see clearly online... what did you do? Are you printing out something with all the kanji, and checking them off? Or did you write the kanji you've learned on the sheets?

canji Wrote:Can someone encourage me by reasuring me in a logical way that recalling a certain kanji from what sometimes seem like random keywords like "draw near" or "paulownia" is really the answer for learning kanji?

Do you only study kanji now, or do you also learn grammar? Have you tried writing sentences from new kanji?

When I began to learn Japanese, I exchanged emails with someone, but this got very frustrating both because of the implied expectancy of a quick reply with email, and because I'd have to look up all the kanji (not to mention that tiny text). Even printed, it gave me headaches.

Now we exchange handwritten letters, which is better because:

* It is less frequent.
* There is no expectancy of quick reply.
* Handwriting is larger and easier to read.
* I have my drafts (and therefore new vocabulary) on paper for future reference.

Writing in general helps me remember. Especially kanji that I reuse often, it's almost like they are my own language.

@ Walden:

I think this may be an important key for you. You seem to be having trouble even though you don't do too many new kanji at once.

kazelee Wrote:

canji Wrote:So my point is that this is encouraging that the cards that l made it to the 3 and 4 reviews piles have stuck with me even if I had been ignoring them. The system seems to be working.

Awesome. This is how I felt after I gave it up the first time... Most of it just stuck even with a couple of months of neglect...

You know, just because something isn't "scheduled" for review doesn't mean you can't review it any old time you want. You may want to review your recently reviewed kanji more times.

If I don't want to do all the ones in a stack at the same time, I just log out when I'm finished. I don't see a way to say "leave this lesson" or similar, but then I am new to the website. Drill in even the ones you already know! For example, if you add 10 kanji a day, review 20 others, or if you add 15, review 30. Or alternate review-only days with review-and-new. This will help you remember newer ones better (in my humble opinion).

It's not a good idea to review kanji before they are due. The whole point about RevTK is that it uses spaced repetition. It's best to review kanji on the day they are due to maximize your mind's ability to remember them.

If you want to leave some to the next day because there's too many, that's not so bad. But leaving them for several days or doing them before they are due is likely to hinder rather than help.

TerryS Wrote:

kazelee Wrote:I'm 90 percent nocturnal. It's 5am as I post now. I work best when, statically, the human mind should be at its most sluggish. Weird, no?

Hey, who you callin' weird?
;-)

My bad...

Quote:* It is less frequent.
* There is no expectancy of quick reply.
* Handwriting is larger and easier to read.
* I have my drafts (and therefore new vocabulary) on paper for future reference.

Hey, if you hit ctrl and + it makes the Japanese script so much easier to read. I use it when I read text.

Raichu Wrote:It's not a good idea to review kanji before they are due. The whole point about RevTK is that it uses spaced repetition. It's best to review kanji on the day they are due to maximize your mind's ability to remember them.

If you want to leave some to the next day because there's too many, that's not so bad. But leaving them for several days or doing them before they are due is likely to hinder rather than help.

IMHO, this is sticking a little too much to SRS-lore. I mean, there is a whole world outside of RTK and RevTK. For example, what if I am reading a short story and I come across some Kanji that I don't recall? It would be silly for me NOT to look it up because it would break spaced repetition!

Having said that, if you have a limited time (who doesn't?) and you have unlimited Kanji to learn (in reality, there many, many times more than 2,000), it would be "more efficient" to learn using SRS-suggested timing. I mean, in the extreme, let's say I review all 2,000 every day - I would prolly remember as well as someone using SRS, but I would waste a lot of time reviewing cards I don't need to.

Also recall that even in the universe of spaced repetition, you can tune the repetition frequency between decks. For serious adherents to SRS, they can get into serious religious arguments about what the spacing should be. I just say, use what works best for you...

But if Raichu is saying that by reviewing the exact set of Kanji right before testing with SRS, you are almost like "cheating" yourself, then I would probably agree.

kfmfe04: Of course, seeing a kanji before it's due isn't a problem at all. The problem is to study kanji ahead of time on this website because you mess up the SRS scheme. Let's say it has passed 3 days since you entered a kanji, so you get it expired and you pass it. Now it's 7 days until you get to see it again, but you want to study so bad so the next day, you review that kanji again. Now it's like... 30 days until you get to see it again WITHOUT that review in 7 days... there's no way you're going to remember.

Reviewing kanji more often outside of the site is fine though, it's not detrimental to see a kanji too often.

Tobberoth Wrote:kfmfe04: Of course, seeing a kanji before it's due isn't a problem at all. The problem is to study kanji ahead of time on this website because you mess up the SRS scheme...

doh! I finished RTK1 and didn't even know you could pre-review like that! LoL

That would be pretty bad...

I will be up to about 262 today, its a weird number because I skipped the very easy ones I knew from studying Japanese before. I am doing 35 a day, and this has to be the longest time I actually stuck to something, I usually don't like repetition, but the fact that I can remember about 90% of them all motivates me to keep going. My major in school is Japanese so I do have some studying to do for that besides the RTK. I like copying and pasting articles in the reading and see more and more Kanji highlighted =P

My motivation for starting the RTK was I still sucked at Kanji after being in Japanese classes for 5 years, sure I still remember individual words and kanji compounds, but the classroom way hasn't been very effective on me, I learn some vocab one week, do pretty well, then forget it totally. I want to apply for JET and i'm taking an advanced class is Japanese soon which has a lot of reading so I want to at least recognize the individual Kanji by then. I hope I don't hit a wall anytime soon, 35 a day is fast but writing them and saying the story while writing them has been pretty helpful. I hope to be done by the New Year so wish me luck! 頑張ります〜

I'm already at 70 with RTK. And I'm not sure how many more kanji I already know, but let's be on the conservative side and lop off another 50. 1948 - 120 = 1828. Let's just call it 1830. 1830 / 10 = 183 days (6 months). There's 4.5 weeks to a month. What happens if I do an extra 25 just one day a week?

10 x 6 = 60 + 25 = 85 kanji per week
1830 / 85 = 21.5 weeks
21.5 / 4.5 = 4.7 months

Let's just call it 4 1/2 months, I have a feeling I know more kanji than I think.

So let me mark that on my calendar...might as well be my birthday...March 18th!
"RTK = Remember thy Kanji!" :-D

kazelee Wrote:

TerryS Wrote:* It is less frequent.
* There is no expectancy of quick reply.
* Handwriting is larger and easier to read.
* I have my drafts (and therefore new vocabulary) on paper for future reference.

Hey, if you hit ctrl and + it makes the Japanese script so much easier to read. I use it when I read text.

That only works on webpages. I don't use webmail unless someone beats me! Well, except for school, but then unlike commercial webmail our school webmail doesn't take forever to load a page.

Plus there is the benefit that writing helps you remember, and I have my original and translation with list of new vocab.

I could give my school email to people but I really don't want to because:
a) I reserve it for important stuff (school communications, important online accounts) to keep down the volume that goes there.
b) When I am done there, that account will cease to exist, and I like to save old emails that mean something to me. Using Thunderbird, all you have to do is export it. I can't export from the webmail.
c) I can't even save the darn contact list from my school webmail. I can't copy and paste from the list in this particular application -- something about the way it's designed.

But again, one of the biggest things is I have to translate the email, and if I don't have time to do it for a while, it makes my inbox fat.