This is a continuations of a thought from the "pitch accent" thread. I'll start a new topic in order to not get that thread even further off topic.

Quote:Sooo, I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Why don't you just try watching Japanese TV?

Because Japanese TV is terrible. ^_^

There's a reason when a Japanese person watches an American drama like Lost or 24 for the first time, they inevitably say "omg...it's like a movie!". This is because most Japanese shows are filmed on a budget that consist of the 100 yen coins the director found in his couch.

And how they film news sometimes seems very unprofessional. For example, they can't film a proper press conference. It's nothing but flashbulbs popping off. Note to the newspeople: Let the photographers get their shots and film the video seperately! And for TV cameramen...it is generally bad form to get in the way of emergency personnel. A while back their was a shooting (when that yakuza guy shot the nagasaki mayor). The guy was literally bleeding to death in the street and the camera people were ignoring the police and sticking a camera inches from the guys face!

And there are various conventions in variety shows that drive me bonkers. When they are showing a clip of a new movie, for example, do they have to talk and laugh over it? I know the reactions of the hosts and B-list celebrities to the 崖の上のポンヨ trailer are fascinating...but I'd rather not watch them. (http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=soghXmUd9CM).

Actually, I'm being a little harsh. I really have really enjoyed most of the animes I've watched. And I do like some of the news programs and quiz shows and stuff.

But they could definitely up the quality of the production values and make certain things less annoying.

And also, I'm going to try to force myself to watch more Japanese TV, because I do need the practice!

/end rant

I do agree that the conventions of Japanese TV are taking some... um, getting used to. Among other things, how "drama" means "hideously overdone".

On the other hand, with regard to the news, are you sure the camera people were actually that close? Camera crews tend to have some pretty impressive telephoto lenses, so it's often not that hard to make a shot look like it's right up in someone's face while they're actually several meters away.

~J

Haha, this is exactly the same problem I have. I try to stomach an hour or two a night but it can be difficult sometimes. Travel and nature shows are somewhat interesting, but most TV is just horrible.

woodwojr Wrote:On the other hand, with regard to the news, are you sure the camera people were actually that close?
~J

You might be right. I bet I can find the story on youtube when I get home.

But there are definately times when other camera people film the ones that are getting precariously close to the action.

johnzep Wrote:There's a reason when a Japanese person watches an American drama like Lost or 24 for the first time, they inevitably say "omg...it's like a movie!".

That's very true. Which is, of course, why I consider my Japanese dubs of Lost and 24 to be Japanese TV.

I just wish they'd hurry up and dub season 4 of Lost. I gotta catch'em all, you know.

I come to these boards a bit, but I have never posted anything. Then I saw this thread and I just wanted to say that truer words have never been spoken. Japanese T.V. makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Its just BLEH! Just because Indiana Jones is coming over doesn't mean the people on the show should dress like him when talking to Harry Ford! My favorite happening was when I first got to Japan and didn't know anything, and I asked my Japanese friend why these people were on T.V. She said "because they are famous." I asked why are they famous and she replied "because they are on T.V." My brain started bleeding.

Personally, I love Japanese entertainment. If you ever have the opportunity to study the other East Asian languages, (Chinese and Vietnamese in particular), you'll be in a world of suffering. Vietnamese is clearly the worst, between the government's censoring of anything interesting, to foreign films completely dubbed over by a solo voice-actor, with the original sound track still playing in the background. I have never watched a Viet film from beginning to end. Vietnamese literary works are at about the same level, not to mention that books at the store are not organized in any way. You literally have to look at every single book at the store to find the one you're looking for, (if it's there).

For me, Japanese entertainment is a breath of fresh air. The films and television shows are generally interesting, with a wide range of subjects to choose from. Japanese literature is also quite diverse and interesting. I don't see much to complain about Japanese entertainment, imagine learning a language like Mongolian, where the vast majority of their entertainment is Buddhist scripts, or Hindi where 90% of their films are Bollywood. Not to say it wouldn't be fun to learn Mongolian or Hindi, or that that's all they have to offer. Every culture has its charms, but in my opinion it is easy to stay focused when there's more media available to study, and Japan has a lot.

I think on average Japanese television is probably pretty bad. But you don't have to watch average t.v., you can find what you like and only watch that kind of thing. I have found very enjoyable doramas that can be enjoyed on some level (if not a realistic level). There are some genuinely entertaining variety shows I have seen, but these were recommended to me, so I don't know how many crappy shows they had to sort through to find this good one. As for news, Japanese people barely watch this themselves, so not much can be expected there.

The same can be said for American t.v.. There is some genuinely crappy stuff out there (reality t.v. these days), but also there is the best of the best if you find it (Seinfeld and Friends are infinitely watchable)

Yeah... before we pick the splinter out of Japanese TV's eye, let's not ignore the log in our own... American TV is about 97% rubbish as well. Most TV is rubbish, no matter the country. The trick is finding the 3% that doesn't make you ill.

Between "Baby's daddy" shows on afternoon TV, to idiotic "reality" shows that make me want to beat my head against a wall until it's bloody, American TV is still a vast wasteland. (Only 557 channels and nothing's on.) And network TV news here is so overproduced now that it's totally insipid and doesn't cover half of what it should. Better not report the really depressing news-- people might not want to watch us!

Japanese TV is pretty bad, too, but I happen to like some of the doramas. Yes, the production values are low, but I'm entertained because I have no expectations going into it. Some of the American TV shows (like Lost and 24) take themselves waaay too seriously for what they are. I prefer the over-the-topness of JP TV in that regard. That, and no cliffhangers. At the end of the season, the series wraps up. I love that.

But the whole "reaction shot" thing mystifies me, too. Who cares what B-listers think about a movie preview?

It's all rubbish. You just have to sift through it to find the good bits, I suppose.

I've lived in the U.S., in the U.K. and now in Japan and in terms of just flicking on the TV and watching what happens to be on, I'd say I enjoy Japanese TV the most.

I think the massive budget American TV shows are the envy of every nation so it's a bit unfair to single out Japan. The irony is that when you watch those shows in the U.S. there are so many commercials that you'd be better off viewing in another country or waiting for the DVD.

ya, American TV is generally crappy too.

For example, I dislike a lot of morning news programs that are too soft and squishy with an overload of human interest stories about brave cats that overcome the odds.

But what contrast can we make with Japanese TV? Probably even the worst morning show on American TV is consistently in focus (as in not blurry). Not so for the Japanese morning show my ladyfriend watches. They do a section on "Today's Papers". More often than not, when they zoom in on the newspaper for a close-up, the camera goes out of focus for a second!

I cannot stand watching, lost, 24 or any of those American series. It feels as if they know a camera is watching them act, seems so fake. That's not to say that the J/K drama i've seen are perfect, but knowing that their budget of a much lesser order, i support them . You get good 'life' lessons you get out of them and the culture (albeit small) aspect that you extract too (if you get any at all). I don't even think about the language aspect, i just watch to enjoy.
(Though i havent seen any JP-tv and that link of the trailer sucks balls! why place that ugly girl there for )

Oh yeah, I know what you mean, Johnzep. I'd love to go over there and smack some producers and camera operators around over there. And I haaate the jump-cuts they use when showing sound bites, too. It's very unprofessional to just jump cut a sound bite. Ugh.

Oh, and no, probably wasn't a telephoto lens that the camera op used with the mayor who was assassinated. You can't zoom in a telephoto handheld and still shoot it steady. Even with a steadicam rig, it's difficult. And no, news outlets don't use steadicam rigs for shooting stuff like that. The cameraman most likely did get in the guy's face.

If you want a steady picture when shooting video, it's best to be pulled most of the way out-- that is, at a wide angle, not zoomed in. (But not too wide, because that distorts the image.) Try it sometime and you'll see the difference. Hand-hold a camera and shoot something zoomed out and close up, then zoom in and walks 10 feet away. You'll see the camera shake in the video. You'll also see a difference in the geometry of what you shot.

But I digress.

All that said, you should still watch some JP TV. Even if you don't understand it, you can get a feel for the cadence of the language. And after a certain point, you just have to accept that most of it is bad, and just move on and try to find something you like. It's work, but worth it, I think. (In spite of my bashing.)

rich_f Wrote:Some of the American TV shows (like Lost and 24) take themselves waaay too seriously for what they are. I prefer the over-the-topness of JP TV in that regard. That, and no cliffhangers. At the end of the season, the series wraps up. I love that.

I hold that any series whose creator has said that in the event of early cancellation they'll have a final episode consisting solely of a monkey holding flashcards that tie up all the loose ends in the plot, is not a series that takes itself too seriously.

I don't like Japanese dramas, personally. I know I should be watching them, but they all remind me of Neighbours and Home and Away, and not in a good way. And the newscasters who use cardboard props, ridiculous. I suspect in this day and age making a cardboard prop would be more expensive and difficult to do than use computer graphics. They perhaps have their computer graphics designers working overtime on totally covering the screen in variety shows with needless text.

Uh, if you don't like Japanese TV, watch Japanese movies. Japanese movies got me interested in Japan in the first place. Not the animes, mangas, videogames or J-Dramas. Though I have to confess that I do watch Japanese dramas regularly. There's a lot of crap, but shows like Iryu, The Queen's Classroom, Slow Dance, My Boss My Hero, Orange Days and others are imho well made shows with original scripts (okay, Iryu feels like Initial D in a hospital setting). And I just love Odoru Daisousasen, watched the drama, the specials and the films (Bayside Shakedown). Can't wait for Bayside Shakedown 3.

I really do think that they have talented scriptwriters working at these Japanese TV stations. Take the drama that I'm currently watching, Strawberry on the shortcake. The first episode is unlike any other drama that I've seen. It's about growing up, finding your own identity, first love, sexuality, but quite disturbing about the directness with which some of these topics are tackled. The characters are fascinating, they're an enigma that you're trying to understand. The reason behind their actions, the way they interact, really fascinating. The main character's misery reminded me of "All about Lily Chou-Chou". The scriptwriter Nojima Shinji is well known for controversial scripts (Kou Kou Kyoshi). And real substance behind his topics. He wrote last season't Bara no nai hanaya.
Or the team behind Tiger & Dragon, their shows always seem to be original and well-written (Ikebukuro West Gate Gate, Utahime)

Oh, and the NHK Taiga Dramas are great (Shinsengumi was scripted by Mitani Koki!).

I don't usually watch their variety or comedy shows. I prefer films and animes. Or dramas. When I have nothing to do, I'd watch a TV-Show like Trivia no Izumi or Nep League and have fun. Yes, I do often think that Japanese TV is terrible. But I still love Japanese entertainment. And like Japanese music. And I simply ignore the things that I don't like.

I think that's the beauty of this forum. We each give each other what can be the cream of the crop of any subject: Kanji - RTK; Sentences - KO2001, UBJG, JFE; Dramas - Tiger and Dragon, Odoru Daisousasen, Kat's Eye, (ok, whatever watashimo listed);

I'll be honest, most of my "library" is taken from AJATT's cue. I found some of my own stuff and things recommended by this board. Come to think of it, there was a thread about recommended dramas.

So yes, Japanese TV is not all bad. It is Japanese after all, so it's a part of the culture you'll want to learn. Just look for that 3% you'll want to invest a heavy part of your time looking at. The rest just leave in the background for filler.

watashimo Wrote:Uh, if you don't like Japanese TV, watch Japanese movies. Japanese movies got me interested in Japan in the first place. Not the animes, mangas, videogames or J-Dramas. Though I have to confess that I do watch Japanese dramas regularly. There's a lot of crap, but shows like Iryu, The Queen's Classroom, Slow Dance, My Boss My Hero, Orange Days

Yes! I loved these series. Queen's Classroom, and Nobuta Wa Produce almost made me regret the way i grew up in high school because they were so beautiful.

And movies too (mainly even). The Professors Beloved Equation, ah such beauty and simplicity in a film using only 3 or 4 sets.

When I first turned on the TV here it didnt take long to figure out that 50% of J TV follows this format:

1. Guy and Model walk into ramen shop
2. They each hesitantly take a bite of the noodles
[short pause while they chew]
3. OMG OMG おいしい！うまい！ *Trumpets play*

Next they usually have commentary from people back in the studio about the ramen.

Maybe having a J TV sitting next to me all day would be a great immersion tool, but i seriously just cant keep that thing on. Too mind numbing. However, I think there are plenty of great shows, movies, etc that Japan has to offer so I just continue to view them the way I did in the US: Streaming on the internet. Honestly, that's how I watch House or Lost or whatever American shows I watched back home also.

This single youtube clip by itself proves Japanese TV is the greatest TV in the universe

Japanese TVs are the best. Where do you think those Sony 42" LCD come from?

I personaly dislike Lost and 24hs. They are probably nice if you are american but the story of an american saving the world from the terrorists is as old as the guy and the girl in the ramen shop saying oishii.

I love some american shows, like "2 and a half guy". Actually I think it of it as the best show ever.

But Japanese TV has some nice stuff.
You forgot to point out Densha Otoko and Liar Game.

And I know some people dislike anime, but for me they are the best of japan TV. One Piece rulez!

snispilbor Wrote:This single youtube clip by itself proves Japanese TV is the greatest TV 中 the universe

LMFAO i remember this
ahahhaha
My friend had to get his arm operated on because he punched an old gyprock wall and got some debris in his arm. [Trying to imitate those guys by breaking down an abandoned home] Oh it was gold. He couldnt use his arm for weeks.