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That's cool. I'm still right, though. Refusing exposure to Japanese media, at any level for any reason is silly.
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What about not having time? What about having other priorities?
*sigh* I'm sick of arguing. Just forget the whole thing...
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Not having time is a fair excuse, as are other priorities. It's not like everyone has to treat language learning like a madcap race to the finish, at the expense of having a life. You have to understand, though, that until now the only information you'd given on the subject is that you felt it wouldn't help you any, which is preposterous.
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You guys are way too concerned about how one guy studies.
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It's not that we won't give you information, but rather that there is no information. Seriously, all the people I've talked to about a Japanese accent (I've looked myself) have all agreed that it's something you pick up and imitate.
I mean, just what exactly are you looking for? If it's a "how-to"/general set of rules/whatever, there probably is none. Try a Japanese speech therapist.
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I think you're spoiled by techniques like RTK. Not everything in language has a good system for short-circuiting the learning process. In terms of learning how to speak there is no substitute for listening to Japanese and actually speaking. If there were, we'd be using it, and whoever invented it would become a millionaire.
Also, knowing where/what to accent is different from actually being able to do it with your vocal chords. That kind of thing takes practice, like learning how to play jazz. You can come up with all the rules you like for improvisational jazz and put together awesome stuff on paper, but you're forgetting the part where you actually have to practice playing the instrument.
Just like jazz, all languages have a tone and rhythm that speakers must be acclimated to. You can't acclimate yourself with it by reading a book.
Edited: 2008-07-20, 1:26 am
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That idea that you "have" to do it that way is for lack of better option.
Doing a search on English stress rules, I have agree that there will be equivalent in Japanese. But can you find any in English? Doubt it.
Fine whatever. Try it your way. There's no rule saying you can't try something new. But you're still not clear on what you want. You told us you don't want to learn the accent through learning the rules. But then you get all pissed off because we're not giving you what you want, whatever that may be.
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Serious question, erlog, how much money do you think RtK brings in a year in sales?
(Though now that I reread your comment, you said "how to speak" rather than limiting it to pitch, which might actually generate millions)
~J
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But I thought "Only Sane Man" situations were supposed to be funny, not annoying. That's what the television taught me.
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I would say:
1) Find a general over view about pitch accent with some example and basic rules, and read it.
2) Then try to listen and imitate Japanese you hear...be cognizant of pitch accent but don't stress too much. And remember 80% of words are "unstressed", so get that pattern down first and try to catch stressed words as best you can.
3) Use a dictionary or something if you have a question about a specific word (or if possible ask a native speaker). This might be specially good for when you learn a word you know has a homophone, but you don't want to wait for someone to say "今、居間にいます" to distinguish the pitch.
If the two extremes are, on one hand, saying "learn pitch accent for every new word from a text or dictionary", and on the other, saying "don't worry about it, you'll pick it up via osmosis just by listening"...then I think something in the middle is reasonable.
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Couldn't there be some program that analyzes dialogue and auto generates your stress symbols? That way, you could then get the results put in your own version of Anki flashcards. Akin to those of us generating TTS audio for our flashcards.
Granted, I don't know if such a program exists.
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Furrykef, I'm ages late, but I have the answer to your MIsete question.
First of all, I entirely share your point of view on the pitch; I've felt the same frustrations, and finally decided to find the rules out for myself. Perhaps 2 years down the road, you've stopped caring, I don't know...
Now, to the answer:
Verb endings have their own pitch patterns. They have 2 patterns -- one for accentless verbs and one for accented verbs.
The -te ending is a 0/-3 morpheme, meaning that on a verb that is accentless, there remains no accent, and on a verb that is accented, such as taBEru or miSEru, you'll get a downfall (move from high to low) occur on the 3rd mora from the end, yielding TAbete and MIsete. This is even true of words that have a downfall on the 4th mora -- the -te ending will make the downfall come on the 3rd mora from the end.
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Can you be more precise on which of those resources include pitch, otherwise than simply by having audio available?
