It really sucks when you get all the primitives right but you have them in the wrong order. For example, today I missed ＃８２３ shame 恥 because I put heart on the left side.

What I did months ago when I made stories was to to make primitives slightly different when they were in different locations. For example, I use a farmer named farmer wheat (in kanji like 稿) but I use hot cereal (cream of wheat) when it is on the top (in kanji like 委). This worked really well. But there are many instance where I didn`t have the forsight to do this.

I also found this thread on primitive positioning rules that is really good.

What methods do you use to remember whether a primitive is on the left right up or down? Especially, any good tricks to ADD to a story if you don`t want to completely change it?

I typically just fail the cards that confuse me (usually exceptions to the rule) and brute force it.

Working in placement of elements into my mnemonics doesn't really work for me.

When heart appears on the left, it takes the form of "state of mind", so I dont think you ever see the standard heart on the left. Ear is also usually on the left. When a primitive appears in different positions, it can help to give it a new name. Like for the thread primitive, I usually call it spiderman, but when its on the bottom I call it venom (spidermans enemy).

I failed a couple today for exactly that reason. Sometimes I try to change the story to take into account the placement. Other times I have to brute force it. I personally don't like using different primitives because it makes for too many primitives and it gets too much for me.

One I failed today was cosmetics 粧. My mnemonic was:
"In caveman days, they used to paint themselves dark with dirt or light with rice paste."

Now I've added:
"Of course the dirt came from inside the caves and the rice grew outside."
We'll see how it goes.

I have adapted stories to take into account primitive placements. For picture stories (such as "melodious" music), I create a visual image that focuses on the first primitive, then the picture pans out to reveal the other primitives. So with melodious music, it starts with the angel, then the image pulls back and I see the angel sitting on the moon singing a melody. So it's Good then Moon.

As stated already, changing the primitive name to denote placement or appearance really helps. Venom for lower spiderman sounds is such a good idea, I'll use it from now on. I've missed many a kanji due to not knowing where "thread" went.

[Katsuo]

I don't have a specific method. Rather it's case by case. For the two mentioned here I use a pun and an alternate primitive respectively.

恥: Star Trek crew gossiping about Mr. Spock: Shame about his ears, but at least his heart's in the right place.

粧: Learn number 2238, shire 庄. It's reasonably common in names. Basic story: Cosmetics are made from rice in this shire.

This does happen to me quite a bit, not as much as it used to though (I guess there are patterns you pick up unconsciously? I don't know). What I usually do is try to see if I can find the logic behind it, based on the meaning of the kanji. Like how all the metals have 金 on the left hand side, it indicates the meaning. I have no idea if this is always true but I pretend it is.

And by logic I don't mean real logic. Like in this case.. well like others said, the heart is never full on the left, but hypothetically I would probably say something like... "the ear indicates shame, because when you're ashamed your ears blush red. That's why it takes the dominant position. Obviously."

Edit: I also do the same as Katsuo, when I know the relevant kanji. I didn't know about shire, so I'll add it now! I have quite a few random RTK3 cards in my deck for that reason.

The more you review, the more you'll notice that certain primitives will tend to take certain places in kanji. Like tree on the left, and head on the right. I always try to notice those kinds of things, and try to remember them.

I usually made my stories so that the primitives showed up in the story in the order I had to write them. And if I don't get the placements right, I *always* fail it. That actually has hepled me get it right over time.

Personally, I ignore the placement and press Yes for I remembered it, provided i remembered all of the elements.

I find by the time it gets into the 4th column I can remember the placement anyway.

The most annoying kanji for placement is 目 followed by 貝 I reckon.

I'm only at about 1500 right now, but I'm starting to simply get a sense for how primitives fit together. I've been trying out a new thing, wherein I don't visually study a kanji form before I add the card into my deck, I just study the story, take the primitive elements in my head, and try to assemble the kanji correctly. It's not really a study technique, more like a "see if I can do it" kind of thing, but it's been surprising how often I manage to assemble everything correctly. If I don't, it's usually because the kanji is an exception to the usual rules.

Wizard Wrote:Personally, I ignore the placement and press Yes for I remembered it, provided i remembered all of the elements.

I find by the time it gets into the 4th column I can remember the placement anyway.

The most annoying kanji for placement is 目 followed by 貝 I reckon.

I started out being liberal on what counted as passing. Now that I'm done with RTK, I can afford to be more strict on what counts as a miss. Before, like you I passed it even if the radicals were in wrong spots or I missed a stroke. Now, I fail it if I do those things.

Granted, there's a difference when you're reviewing 100+ cards and 300 in your fail stacks, and when it's 40+ cards with none in your fail stack. Always be willing to adapt based on your abilities. Good job Wizard.

I think it's a good idea to shift the goalposts of "correct". Personally, I'm extremely liberal with what counts as a pass in the second stack, moderately liberal in the third stack, and for the fifth stack and up I fail for missed hooks and releases. I imagine once I'm done with RTK I'll start moving the strictness threshold up for the lower stacks as well.

Of course, I make exceptions to this based on circumstance. Since I'm still going through RTK I tend to be more forgiving of mistakes on upper stacks when I've got a big pile on the second stack waiting to expire all at once on me.

~J

When i 'read'/'learn' my story, i do physical turns with my head (this is only for left/right confusions) that way it sort of gets built in to my muscle memory. Eg when i think of spit, i physically turn my head to the right and imagine my mouth is spitting over to the right.

For me it's easy to remember that "spit" has the mouth on the left because spitting has more to do with the mouth than it has to do with soil, and the primitive that has to do with meaning is almost always on the left.

I'm a newb, but I either work it into the story somehow or I'm noticing that the more fundamental element is usually either on the left or the top like fire, water, stone, tree etc.