Woohoo!

Finally got to Japan after about 18 grueling hours of travel and I have to say... I am in love. Now I have fully justified my study of the language. Thank you Japan!

Now, I do have a question. When you enter a shop, and いらっしゃいませ sounds like it should... what's the etiquette? Is it a slight bow, a word, nothing? That's all for now!

Congratulations! Are you here for work? Study?

As for いらっしゃいませ, you don't have to respond at all. If you feel the need to respond (as a lot of foreigners seem to), I think eye contact and a nod or smile is more than enough. Most of my Japanese friends seem to ignore shop workers almost completely unless they need to ask for something.

おめでとうございます!

That's great news! My goal is to also arrive in Japan someday. Perhaps a couple gaijin like ourselves will meet up.


If I may, under what situations have you found yourself coming to Japan? Do you already have a job waiting for you there?

thats cool i'll be in tokyo on june 4th... it'll be my 4th time to japan... i have been all over (tokyo, osaka, iwate, kyoto, wakaiyama) my girlfriend lives in tokyo (she is actually one of the Tokyo Tower girls haha) if you guys want some kind of reason why i will be there. i'm planning on living there in the future after i go back to college. i'm a LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse) but i am going to go back to get a BS in Japanese Language & Literature starting this fall. ^_^

Ryuujin27, make sure you get a Suica card if you haven't already from the train station... it makes using the trains a whole lot faster ^_^

Oh yeah, Suica rocks. You can use them in Sendai and Osaka, too, and some of the vending machines and stores will take Suica. Suica is an important tool in the battle against 1-, 5-, and 10-yen coins.

When I was in Japan, my first day in Tokyo was kind of a blur... then again, I was only there for the night, then went straight to Okazaki to go to Yamasa for a couple of weeks. That was more of a blur, too. It too me a few days to get over the 時差ぼけ... for some reason I just felt 10% dumber than usual for a few days, and slept a lot. ぼけ sort of fits the feeling.

And yeah, at first you want to say something back when people say いっらしゃいませ, but in a few days, you get over the urge. I noticed that after 5 weeks, my どうもありがとござました turned into something almost unintelligible. Conbinis saved my butt over there a number of times-- cheap, decent food. 7 Eleven has the best salads. (But the oden by the counter is just nasty... it's spring now, so you won't see it.)

Edit: ah, one thing-- I would always acknowledge people who had a really good variation on いっらしゃいませ, simply because it broke the tedium.

Hey guys, thanks for the responses!

As it turns out, right now I'm just on a vacation with my girlfriend (also into Japanese studies). She's actually my Kyoto tour guide, as she's been here 3 times before. I'll be here for about 16 days this time, but I consider more of a warm up, as I'll be coming back for my spring semester in Tokyo. I can't wait for that, either!

Anyway, I'll post this in the hopes someone will see it, but as we're leaving in about 30 minutes or so, I might not get an answer.

However, my question is: what kind of phrasing should I use if bartering at a flea market? We're going to Touji temple for the monthly (bimonthly?) flee market, and I know my girlfriend definitely plans to buy kimono items, as she's a bit of a fanatic, haha.

Also: I know it isn't common practice to barter in Japan, but apparently at flea markets there is some leeway. So, if anyone has any ideas, they'd be well received!

i dont know much about bartering in japan, but i heard kimonos are REALLY expensive..... so be prepared!!!

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. >_>

Enjoy Kyoto! The Japan Times recently did a nice article on fun things to do in Kyoto. Check their travel section and go back to mid-April, I think.

Also, the travel office on the 10th floor of Kyoto Station across from Isetan is awesome. Best place to go for travel info in Kyoto. (And the food in Isetan is good, too.) They close at 6PM, so you gotta move fast.

rich_f Wrote:Conbinis saved my butt over there a number of times-- cheap, decent food. 7 Eleven has the best salads. (But the oden by the counter is just nasty... it's spring now, so you won't see it.)

I've never had oden from Seven since the closest one is about 10 minutes from my apartment, but Lawsons oden is pretty decent.

@Ryuujin:
Give up on getting a kimono now. The average price is $1000-2000 and unless your girlfriend is short, you might have trouble getting the right length without a custom order. Settle for a yukata (which can be found for under $100). Also too late but, the verb to use when asking for a discount is まける. "ちょっとまけませんか？" etc

Jarvik7 Wrote:Settle for a yukata (which can be found for under $100). Also too late but, the verb to use when asking for a discount is まける. "ちょっとまけませんか？" etc

UniQlo has had cheap yukata if you're bargain hunting, but like Jarvik7 says, it's a seasonal thing.

Thanks for the responses, again!

So まける, huh? I'll have to remember that.

Also, if you hunt around (and as someone said, are short), then you'll be able to find kimono cheap. My girlfriend spent around... $100 today and came off with 7 different kimono related items (and one kimono). Touji market seems like a great place for it! Plus, the food stands in the market are amazing. お好み焼き... *drool*.

おおきに!

Here's betting they are made in china kimonos meant for tourists (or actually just yukatas)

No problem with that if that's what she's happy with though.

Yeah, that kind of price is pretty much unheard of, especially if it's new. I've heard of secondhand kimono selling for $50-$60 or so, but they were pretty beat up - faded, a hole or two in hard-to-see places (and that was just the kimono, no obi or other accessories). I think the average secondhand kimono sells for more like $500.

i've heard of kimonos costing $10000-$30000 before... >_< who needs a new car when you can buy a new kimono right? ^_^

Heh, sorry guys. My girlfriend says that while you may know a lot about the language and culture, you know nothing about kimono. And honestly, I believe her; not because she's my girlfriend, but because whenever we talk to the Japanese people here, she talks to them about kimono with all the kimono lingo. Also, I must say that she is capable of walking around Gion and Pontocho and naming every Maiko that we come across, and giving a history on them. After all, I said she was obsessed.

But anyway, they really aren't that expensive. I'm pretty sure you are basing the entire price off of what you see in places like Isetan and Daimaru, huh? Well, even at those places, you don't have to pay so much. For example, we went to Daimaru yesterday, and my girlfriend has been wanting a yellow yukata for a long time now. And at Daimaru she found one that fit perfectly. How much, you ask? $105. Brand new, 100% silk.

As for the used kimono, they are definitely not for tourists. They is a big, big difference between the tourist kimono and the real ones. Touristy ones are usually embroidered, because for some reason, we find that most attractive. Whereas real ones tend to be dyed. That's only a basic telltale sign.

Anyway, the point is, you have to dig. They are there for way less than 5 Grand; however, they are also there for 5 Grand, but I wouldn't recommend buying them for that... as those are all designer and, just as with Prada and Coach, do you really need the name?

$100 for 100% silk doesn't sound right at all.

It might be "100% Silk", but then it's probably the lowest grade silk available
on the market. Silk is not a cheap material. There's a reason those
kimonos cost $10000-$30000. It's because they are expensive to produce.

Basically. You get what you pay for.

This is the girlfriend talking now. To start, I will say I am extremely knowledgeable about kimono. I have well over 25, and I've taught myself how to wear them... 100% correctly.
I'll also begin by saying that no, kimono do not have to cost $20,000+. In fact, most kimono that are worn by women everyday - usually run about $2,000 for the entire set... as in kimono, obi, accessories, undies, etc. I think the $20,000 number actually stems from bridal sets, that, yes, can cost well over $20,000... but again, you're using the sum of accessories, obi, shiromoku, uchikake, zouri, katsura, etc. Not the sum for one kimono.
Now, onto my Toji flea market purchases. I know exactly what I bought at the flea market. I bought a red kinsha silk haori and a nice lavender colored kinsha silk iromuji. I will also say now, if you don't know the terminology I'm using, do you really have room to tell ME about kimono? Anyway, I paid 2,000 en for both. No, not because they have huge holes or massive stains or because it's satin tourist garbage. The reason for the price tag? On things like vintage or used kimono, a even a tiny imperfection drops the price a great deal, we're talking even the smallest patina or the smallest stain on the lining of the collar. On the haori - a very faint water mark where it was folded... on the iromuji - a barely visible stain on the maemigoro (again, if you don?t know this terminology, do you really have room to talk to me about kimono?). These imperfections are enough to make many women say "this is ruined", however, for those who don't mind a faint stain or for younger girls who are just beginning to wear kimono, these minor imperfections don?t really matter.
Now, onto my Daimaru purchase. I know exactly what I bought from Daimaru. I bought a pale yellow, rinzu silk, yuzen dyed komon - not a yukata, my boyfriend is silly and didn't know the difference - he knows now (again, if you don't know what those words mean? you know where I'm going with this). The reason for its 10,500 en price tag, whoever had chosen the fabric and given their dimensions never came and picked it up . I know those of you who are saying "liar, kimono cost $20,000", are going to call me a liar whatever else, hey go for it, you're the one who has no clue what you're talking about. Anyway, the reason for it's 10,500 en price is simple: it's pre-cut and already sewn into shape. Now I know many are thinking "So? What's wrong with that? In western style clothing we buy things pre-cut all the time." The problem with being pre-cut is as follows: how many women do you know that have the EXACT following dimensions: 165 cm tall, 144 cm 'wing span', 63 cm back width. How many can you think of? 1... maybe 2? The kimono fabric already being sewn into a kimono is a BIG problem. That really narrows your pool of buyers. In a city of 1,000,000 that has the potential to narrow you pool down to MAX. 10,000, possibly even 1,000 people or smaller. On top of that, how many of those perfectly proportioned women (for this particular kimono) actually wear kimono?
And with that, I believe I prove my point. Also, if you don't believe me about prices, one look at any kimono designer site would tell you your $20,000 price tag is insanely over-inflated. A brand new Yamato furisode set (furisode and obi) costs at the most, $7,000.00.
As I said, if you don't know exactly what you're talking about, please don't share.

m(_._)m

Most of my information comes from being talked down by my coworkers from trying to help my girlfriend get a kimono when she came to visit, so it may be fair to say that many Japanese people are overestimating the cost of getting a secondhand kimono as well. Given that most of them rarely, if ever, buy anything secondhand at all, this doesn't seem so unlikely.

Thanks for the details, I'll have to keep them in mind when I go on my kimono quest later this year (I assume most of your discount buying techniques would apply to men's wafuku as well?)

why are japanese so scared of buying second-hand things? seems like they usually go for new cars, new clothes etc.... and they usually buy things that cost so expensive... i'll just stick to shopping at しまむら　

Ryuujin27 Wrote:This is the girlfriend talking now.

What a great post. It's one of the best posts I have seen here in months. :-)

Hashiriya Wrote:why are japanese so scared of buying second-hand things? seems like they usually go for new cars, new clothes etc.... and they usually buy things that cost so expensive...

This must actually also be the reason why second-hand photo cameras are so cheap in Japan as compared to most other places. I was amazed when I first saw mint-condition Mamiyas going for 1/3 of their UK price...

Hashiriya Wrote:why are japanese so scared of buying second-hand things? seems like they usually go for new cars, new clothes etc.... and they usually buy things that cost so expensive...

This is Japan. Image is important for a lot of people. That's why this is BRAND LAND. That's why people spend so much on new phones every other month, etc etc. In the UK we would boast about a great deal we got on a second hand thing, in Japan people boast about how much they paid for something!

It's just a generalisation, of course..

Hmmmm... I've lived in Japan for a couple years, and as someone who has never really looked extensively into kimono/yukata purchases, it seems that there are a lot of things that I don't know. I would agree that this post is quite interesting, however I must express my distain at statements like "if you don't know exactly what you're talking about, please don't share."

That is not at all in the spirit of a forum, especially one where people are free to post queries and argue about the meaning of a kanji, reading, or even perhaps the price of merchandise. I am the first to admit that I don't know a lot of things. An awful lot of things. However like most other people, I think I will feel encouraged to learn more when those who are sharing do so in the spirit of helping others, not discouraging them from venturing into something that they may not be an expert on.

Danieru Wrote:However like most other people, I think I will feel encouraged to learn more when those who are sharing do so in the spirit of helping others, not discouraging them from venturing into something that they may not be an expert on.

Which is what Ryuujin27's girlfriend is not doing at all. She is not discouraging people from venturing into something that they might not be an expert on, she is merely commenting on the fact that a lot of people here are making fact-like statements about things they in reality know very little of. Therefore I think this little comment of yours is a tad misplaced.

Not trying to ruffle feathers - I just saw the post and I felt compelled to comment on the spirit with which (I felt) it came across.

I love this website. I read the forums often, but mostly I just slug away at the kanji... As someone who has been a teacher for many years, I appreciate the academic endeavours of the people who share for the sake of others.
There are many ways to teach, some not as effective as others; I tip my hat to everyone who shares in this site and contributes for fellow kanjiophiles and the like!

roderik Wrote:Which is what Ryuujin27's girlfriend is not doing at all. She is not discouraging people from venturing into something that they might not be an expert on, she is merely commenting on the fact that a lot of people here are making fact-like statements about things they in reality know very little of. Therefore I think this little comment of yours is a tad misplaced.

Actually her comments were not called for at all. People were making statements based on what Ryuujin said, which turned out not to be entirely accurate. Also, I doubt anyone considered that she was looking for damaged kimonos or store leftovers on clearance (since it was something that had been resized, it was already paid for by the original customer that ordered it and would have been garbage bound if left for much longer) Thus the fact-like statements remain as valid facts. Quality new kimono and used kimono in newish condition are indeed expensive. For example, a polyester made in China yukata is about 9800 at Isetan. That is neither brand-name nor good material yet is indeed expensive compared to comparable western clothing.

Throwing around words like a showoff and then telling people to shut up if they don't know them is not the way that this forum operates. It's especially rude for someone who isn't even a regular forum user to talk that way.