I study the sentences I want to learn out of the book, then add new cards one at a time. A faster way would be nice, but I don't know of one.

I noticed the spreadsheet stops after Part I; is this where you all figure you have enough grammar to move on, or is this just where you stopped adding to the spreadsheet?

mattimus Wrote:I study the sentences I want to learn out of the book, then add new cards one at a time. A faster way would be nice, but I don't know of one.

I noticed the spreadsheet stops after Part I; is this where you all figure you have enough grammar to move on, or is this just where you stopped adding to the spreadsheet?

There are six tabs at the bottom. One per part or chapter. Should total about 1300 or so sentences.

...great, now I'm the guy that asked the dumb question.

Haha, thanks again Nuke.

Nukemarine, I sent you an email with a pic of my copy of the book a couple days ago. Could I get access to the UBJG google group, please?

If I utilize «Understanding Basic Japanese Grammar» instead of «Tae Kim Grammar Guide» , will I to be in a better position academically? Does one cover more than other? Because a lot of people say «Do Tae Kim after RTK» but with this new book UBJG, I'm confused as to which approach is better. I have no Japanese knowledge other than RTK and kana, if that affects which approach I should take.

vinniram Wrote:If I utilize «Understanding Basic Japanese Grammar» instead of «Tae Kim Grammar Guide» , will I to be in a better position academically? Does one cover more than other? Because a lot of people say «Do Tae Kim after RTK» but with this new book UBJG, I'm confused as to which approach is better. I have no Japanese knowledge other than RTK and kana, if that affects which approach I should take.

I did UBJG right after RTK and it didn't help my grammar understanding so much. I learned lots of vocabulary and it helped my reading speed/kanji pronunciation a lot.

I would recommend you go through Tae Kim's guide, or get a more basic grammar textbook first. I started taking classes a few months ago and they use Japanese for busy people. Going though a text book is easy with the vocab I got from UBJG, but the grammar is making a lot more sense, and I can output it as well. I'd recommend doing UBJG once you have your basic grammar down though.

Japanese the Manga way seems like a pretty good grammar book to get started with as well. http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Manga-Way...782&sr=1-1

vinniram Wrote:Because a lot of people say «Do Tae Kim after RTK»

I think the reason this is common advice is because Tae Kim's guide is freely available and online, but personally I would prefer to use a good textbook. (I have no experience with UBJG in particular.)

UBJG is not a grammar book, you can do it in conjunction with a grammar book or after a grammar book, but it's not a replacement for a grammar book. For those that don't know, it's a list of common Japanese sentence patterns and points with example sentences. So for example it starts of with the X wa Y desu pattern, and then gives 10 or so example sentences, but no real explanation of what wa or desu are.

It's a useful book because of all those example sentences though, and does cover a decent amount of stuff. The book is more about exposure to these patterns since most grammar books only give a couple of example sentences, if any. It's likely the more examples you see of particular pattern will help you understand it better or the way it's used.

I hate to bump up this topic, but sent a proof-of-purchase email your way Nukemarine, if you still have the spreadsheet available for distribution. Greatly appreciated if I could get my hands on that! (Although I'm not so sure I got the right e-mail address, from reading earlier post it seemed like the screen name + @gmail.com so eh hopefully that was right).

After reading this whole thread, isn't the whole point that it's not a grammar book?

Grammar Does Not Exist, I've read many times. That's why this book is worth getting, and conventional grammar books and Tae Kim's is not very beneficial (sentence mining and learning comes first, grammar after you know the language).

zachandhobbes Wrote:After reading this whole thread, isn't the whole point that it's not a grammar book?

Grammar Does Not Exist, I've read many times. That's why this book is worth getting, and conventional grammar books and Tae Kim's is not very beneficial (sentence mining and learning comes first, grammar after you know the language).

Just because you've read it many times, that doesn't mean it's true and certainly doesn't mean it's helpful to a language learner. Can you learn a language without reading a single grammar rule? Yeah, you do that with your native language (up to a point). Can you do it with a second language when your native language is radically different and ingrained? Possibly. Is it the most efficient way to learn a language? No.

I'm not claiming grammar rules define how the language is spoken, they are descriptive only and there are exceptions. But what exactly is the point of pretending patterns don't exist or believing they do exist but that you're better able to learn them by guessing than just reading a succinct description of the pattern? Children learn their native language the way they do because they have no other option.

Is the AJATT/Grammar Doesn't Exist doctrine the fastest way to learn a language? Possibly, but doubtful. Is it horribly, horribly time inefficient in terms of hours invested compared to conventional methods? Yes.

Flamerokz,

I don't have access to my g-mail account (blocked at work) at the moment, so anyone messaging me will have to wait until I get internet access in my new place.

>gmail
>blocked at work

what the shi

zachandhobbes Wrote:>gmail
>blocked at work

what the shi

Blocked at my work too. I imagine most places that want some semblance of security block webmail.

Nukemarine Wrote:Flamerokz,

I don't have access to my g-mail account (blocked at work) at the moment, so anyone messaging me will have to wait until I get internet access in my new place.

Ah alright, then it's all good, I can sink my teeth into other stuff until then.
Many thanks!

What would be a good grammar book to start out with? I'm a absolute beginner in terms of grammar and only know little. Not just that, but my vocab knowledge is extremely basic as well. I was looking through this topic and at first was thinking of buying Understanding Basic Japanese Grammar or A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar, but it would seem like that would be a mistake for my first grammar book. The gist I got was they're extremely good for reviewing grammar once you got a grasp of how basic Japanese grammar works. Can anyone suggest any books to start off with for the absolute beginner? I can read Hiragana and Katakana quite well, but my Kanji is rather limited. I only know around 250-300 Kanji currently. It seems many people suggest Genki to start off with for the absolute beginner in terms of Grammar. Would you agree/disagree with this? Also, I've tried Tae Kim's, but is was way too advanced. Either way, if anyone can make a suggestion it would be greatly appreciated.

"Japanese the Manga Way: An Illustrated Guide to Grammar and Structure",
by W. P. Lammers.

It is fun and starts from scratch.

Japanese for Everyone is a really underrated but great book

Nukemarine,
I just sent you an email with an image of my fresh copy of UBJG...
Thank you very much

I'm sorry for bringing up this topic, the last post was 2 years ago.

I was wondering if the spreadsheet was still available? I bought the book (a used book) recently and I'm willing to send photos of it or any other proof if necessary.

But I don't know 1)if the spreadsheet is still here 2)who to contact for it. I sent an email to Nukemarine on his gmail account a few days ago, but after 2 years I don't know if he still has it or not.

I searched the forum for any other thread about it but didn't find one.

Can anybody help me?

Kurono Wrote:Can anybody help me?

Check Anki's shared decks

Is getting this book still as highly emphasized today? I'm deliberating whether or not to get this or use the money for a different JP resource.

Chigun Wrote:Is getting this book still as highly emphasized today? I'm deliberating whether or not to get this or use the money for a different JP resource.

What resources are you considering?
Tell us everything and we can give you advice.

There are a lot of people on this forum that have been in your situation.

undead_saif Wrote:Check Anki's shared decks

I feel so dumb, it was so simple... Thanks a lot!!!

chamcham Wrote:

Chigun Wrote:Is getting this book still as highly emphasized today? I'm deliberating whether or not to get this or use the money for a different JP resource.

What resources are you considering?
Tell us everything and we can give you advice.

There are a lot of people on this forum that have been in your situation.

I was mainly asking because I noticed "Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners" makes no mention of using this book, but does give mention to KO2001. The first post in this thread made this book seem a lot more essential to beginners for completing before KO2001. Do you think it's better to skip right to rolling through KO2001, or to go through UBJG first?

That said, other than UBJG and KO2001 I don't have that many more resources planned just now. Genki II possibly for future use. I'm still weak on grammar/vocabulary so it'll be some time before I invest in the more advance texts. I just recently bought RtK3 anticipating completing RtK1 probably in about a week.