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Has anyone extensively used Subs2SRS (i.e. THOUSANDS of cards worth?)

#1
I've been enjoying subs2srs, in both a Listening and Reading-based format. (Audio + pic on front, or Kanji Reading + Pic on the front).
It's been pretty helpful with targeting the words I can't hear, and overall fixing some grammatical issues and nuances I didn't get, and helping me up my vocab (depending on the show).

I've done 1180 cards or so with subs2srs, and I feel like it's pretty good. I use high Anki intervals (usually 300%) with Subs2SRS so that I don't overtest the cards, and I found that, combined with listening to the show along with other shows (AJATT, listening all the time) is really effective. I feel like a lot of people don't know you can do this with subs2srs, and so they haven't done more than a show worth of subs2srs cards, because of the hassle it is. I use MorphMan, so it's easy to use subs2srs decks and learn new words, since the cards get re-sorted by (i+1).

I don't see subs2srs recommended enough, or hear about people's results with it, though. There are a bunch of deep ideas I have it that I won't go into, regarding the benefits and limitations of subs2srs, but...


Listening's kind of a struggle that I want to deal with, so I thought subs2srs would be especially useful. A lot of what I use to learn is visual novels, and a lot of those words aren't commonly used in spoken Japanese.

Obviously, immersion is the ideal make or break thing when it comes to fluency. I've been debating on what my own breakdown between immersion and Anki should be, since I'm going to have a lot of time to work all day on my Japanese, and I found that subs2srs is pretty effective. 

tldr; how good do you guys think subs2srs is?
Anyway, I'm interested: has gotten fluent while/by doing a lot of subs2srs?
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#2
I documented my success with subs2srs a few years back. When I started learning Japanese again last year, I made sure to make it a part of my process. It still works quite well.  For people in their intermediate stages (basic grammar complete, 1000 to 2000 vocabulary), subs2srs is great source to include in the study curriculum.  Part of me thinks that at the advanced stage (after N2), this begins to become overkill. Could be wrong and it stays effective especially for shows in specialized areas of interest.
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#3
I've gotten very far on my Japanese (read about 130 books, I've watched a lot of talk variety shows) I don't use sub2srs anymore because it's too time consuming (both reviewing and making it. It takes me less than 3 secs per card for cloze deletion ) and I don't need audio on my cards because I know what Japanese sounds like and most of the stuff I consume doesn't have Japanese subtitles and I refuse to watch shit just because it has Japanese subs . If you want to get fluent you have to read and listen a lot (by a lot I mean a lot) and you don't have to use sub2srs for that.

You relisten to the eps by generating the dialogue only audio from sub2srs right?

I exclusively make cards in the cloze deletion format because it's easier, faster and more effective than the traditional format or the sub2srs format.

Do whatever you feel is most effective . Just don't compromise your enjoyment and force yourself to watch shit you don't like just because it has Japanese subs.
Edited: 2017-04-30, 9:57 am
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#4
Emptiness arises from within if all you seek is another vision of your greatest whims.
Edited: 2017-04-30, 10:53 am
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#5
(2017-04-30, 9:44 am)howtwosavealif3 Wrote: I've gotten very far on my Japanese (read about 130 books, I've watched a lot of talk variety shows) I don't use sub2srs anymore because it's too time consuming (both reviewing and making it. It takes me less than 3 secs per card for cloze deletion ) and I don't need audio on my cards because I know what Japanese sounds like and most of the stuff I consume doesn't have Japanese subtitles and I refuse to watch shit just because it has Japanese subs . If you want to get fluent you have to read and listen a lot (by a lot I mean a lot) and you don't have to use sub2srs for that.

You relisten to the eps by generating the dialogue only audio from sub2srs right?

I exclusively make cards in the cloze deletion format because it's easier, faster and more effective than the traditional format or the sub2srs format.

Do whatever you feel is most effective . Just don't compromise your enjoyment and force yourself to watch shit you don't like just because it has Japanese subs.

I actually just extract the whole episode and use that, instead of doing a line by line rapid fire of dialogue-only. I think I'd start to lose the context and real pacing of things, even though I'd probably save time by generating dialogue-only audio. 

Do you just go through all the media files generated by subs2SRS, or is there a way to cleanly combine them without another program?

And yeah, there's still a lot I can learn from anime I enjoy that have jsubs. I'm making sure not to watch shows just because they have jsubs, and making sure to watch things without jsubs.
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#6
Do you just go through all the media files generated by subs2SRS, or is there a way to cleanly combine them without another program?

I know that you can combine the audio files using MP3 album maker. If you don't want bother joining the files you can get seamless playback by using windows media player
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#7
Or just listen to the full episode audio. Unless there are huge portions without people talking, there probably isn't going to be a lot of empty space. Plus the full audio helps you replay the scenes in your head and keep the full context.
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#8
I've been using it almost exclusively lately. Not because I think that's all I need to become fluent, but that's all I can mentally handle at the moment lol. I've got a subs2srs deck with over 100k cards that I just go through randomly. I'm only about 900 cards in at the moment but maybe i'll report back once i'm near 10000. I've been making a bunch of subs2srs decks too which is kinda fun considering I have to go through aegisub to first make the transcribe the subs for the stuff i'm working with. The only thing I've really noticed is being able to listen to podcasts more without feeling completely lost.
I should mention, I've already spent a lot of time studying grammar so I never really get hung up on that. When I first tried using subs2srs years ago, I found that without sufficient context, I couldn't grasp a lot of what was going on.
I'm definitely not advocating using only subs2srs for serious study, but for what I need right now it keeps me going. It certainly has its limitations, and I'd love to read more of your thoughts on that specifically.
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#9
So im going to assume you didn't actually any of those eps? Or did you? That's a lot
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#10
My thoughts on the limitations for subs2srs:

Vocab cap:
The vocab you hear in subs2srs is only going to represent dialogue that's spoken in j-drama, anime, or manga. Novels are going to use a larger scope of vocab. It's probably going to get you pretty far when it comes to listening, though, because spoken Japanese naturally won't use the same sort of vocab you read in novels, but you have to build up your reading vocab elsewhere.

Already knowing most of the vocab = annoying?
You might get annoyed for having to delete like 80% of your cards, but I might still be worth it, depending on the show. Depending on your level, it might still be worth going through the deck if you're not at the point where you can understand everything in the show. I can see the limited returns happening if you only stick to romance/slice of life anime and j-drama, though. I try to pick harder or more niche shows for subs2srs of varying genres.


Some Mental pitfalls:
-You may fall into the mindset of wanting to use only shows that have Japanese subtitles, because you stockpile shows with jsubs for your subs2srs
-You may feel that subs2srs is a good substitute for listening and reading in the wild for hours each day, when you should be doing both.
-You might feel like you need to save a subs2srs card just because you couldn't hear 1 word, and it can cause frustrating card. Remember: no frustrating cards allowed for Anki.
-You may run into cards that aren't i+1, but are like i+3 - you want to avoid saving cards with multiple unknown words. It makes for an excessively difficult card, and it may lead you to just remember the English translation instead of deciphering the sentence.
-Overtesting: doing too much subs2rs. This can happen if you don't know about Anki intervals. I use this for my subs2srs - http://i.imgur.com/YNqzNht.png because subs2srs cards usually get easy pretty quickly, and things wind up clicking into place pretty well, so you don't want to test these cards so much. I feel like this factor is huge, because almost no one I know seems to have any idea about modifying the Anki card intervals for sentence cards, and people don't know about the revision principle, where a card often becomes more or less mastered after seeing it about 5-6 times (5 revisions).

So, I think subs2srs is probably the best when it comes to **listening**, but it's also pretty good for reading with harder shows, especially if they're based on manga (since then you're getting something that originally was in text form). It's pretty good for fixing grammatical understanding of things, too, assuming you went through the textbooks, and think you understand, only to realize that some things just didn't click.

My other strategy to up my listening is just to make Listening-only cards for all my vocab, and just sort it by anime frequency. I wind up suspending a lot of the words I incidentally can understand because I can read them, and targeting the ones that I can read but not hear.

Listening is something that hasn't been coming naturally for me all for me, and I don't really have time to spend years passively listening hoping that AJATT just works out if I expand my reading ability without actively raising my listening ability. I've seen people who got good at reading but can't hear for beans. I think listening for hours a day is still really useful if you're also increasingly being able to hear more words, and can understand 80+%.

Verdict:
I think subs2srs and listening-only cards can get you enough of a foundation of phonetic Japanese -> meaning and kanji, so that once you can realistically hear 10k or 20k words, you don't need to emphasize it anymore, and your decryption fundamentals will be high enough that you can accumulate new vocab words and hear them without conscious effort.

Or you know, you could just do read and listen and hope for the best, play around with jsubs on/off, look up words a ton, etc.
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#11
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I found them very insightful.

I always bury anything that's more than i+1 if I think it may be valuable later on, but I freely delete cards without hesitation. You're so right, there is no room for frustrating cards in anki. My mega-deck had something like 108k total cards and it's been dwindling because I'm deleting things left and right lol. If I ever manage to get through ALL of them (unlikely), I imagine I'd have closer to 30-40k total cards. I really only want the audio and the Japanese, and then any additional notes I may need to put in. I don't find the english translation useful anymore, but I appreciate the people who go the extra mile when creating their subs2srs decks because obviously others will find that extremely beneficial. But yeah, I think it's important to add your own notes to the cards. Definitions and what not.

I really love using and creating subs2srs decks. It's fun and then there's the added bonus that someone else might use what you made too. huhu.
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#12
When I used sub2srs I only ran it for specific lines I wrote down while watching because I realized filtering lines out with the list of words (thank you , hello, look,wait etc etc or the Japanese equivalent) wasn't effective and I was wasting so much time deleting cards. 

By the way I highly recommend Modifying the STEPS!!! One of the reasons I hate anki is that it tests a card I fail 1 then 10 minutes later ( all I can say is that it's not helpful especially when there's 20 failed cards) and I never knew you could make it stop doing that. Anki doesn't let you have no steps but you can still cut it down to one step and make that long 2440 or 1440 (which sends it to the next day). Ever since I did that I like anki so much more. I think if you have to do the 1 10 step to remeber a card it shouldn't even be in your deck[/i]
Edited: 2017-04-30, 11:18 pm
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#13
I've never tried this, but it looks awesome. Does anyone know if it's mac compatible?
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#14
(2017-04-30, 11:15 pm)howtwosavealif3 Wrote: When I used sub2srs I only ran it for specific lines I wrote down while watching because I realized filtering lines out with the list of words (thank you , hello, look,wait etc etc or the Japanese equivalent) wasn't effective and I was wasting so much time deleting cards. 

By the way I highly recommend Modifying the STEPS!!! One of the reasons I hate anki is that it tests a card I fail 1 then 10 minutes later ( all I can say is that it's not helpful especially when there's 20 failed cards) and I never knew you could make it stop doing that. Anki doesn't let you have no steps but you can still cut it down to one step and make that long 2440 or 1440 (which sends it to the next day). Ever since I did that I like anki so much more. I think if you have to do the 1 10 step to remeber a card it shouldn't even be in your deck[/i]

First, I make sure this setting is set in Anki, the Lean ahead limit: 2m - http://i.imgur.com/0qFBmS3.png
I do 1m->10m->2 days on most of my cards.
I also don't reset my cards on failure. There's a testing principle where, say it's Monday, you can basically just do 1m->10m->2 days, and then if you mess it up on Wednesday, then re-study it 10 minutes later, you have a high chance of remembering it fine for Friday. (you don't increase the interval but you don't reset the card.)

Some people say you can't use Anki to "learn" but that's just false. The 1m->10m doesn't really bother me.
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#15
(2017-05-01, 7:09 am)vladz0r Wrote:
(2017-04-30, 11:15 pm)howtwosavealif3 Wrote: When I used sub2srs I only ran it for specific lines I wrote down while watching because I realized filtering lines out with the list of words (thank you , hello, look,wait etc etc or the Japanese equivalent) wasn't effective and I was wasting so much time deleting cards. 

By the way I highly recommend Modifying the STEPS!!! One of the reasons I hate anki is that it tests a card I fail 1 then 10 minutes later ( all I can say is that it's not helpful especially when there's 20 failed cards) and I never knew you could make it stop doing that. Anki doesn't let you have no steps but you can still cut it down to one step and make that long 2440 or 1440 (which sends it to the next day). Ever since I did that I like anki so much more. I think if you have to do the 1 10 step to remeber a card it shouldn't even be in your deck[/i]

First, I make sure this setting is set in Anki, the Lean ahead limit: 2m - http://i.imgur.com/0qFBmS3.png
I do 1m->10m->2 days on most of my cards.
I also don't reset my cards on failure. There's a testing principle where, say it's Monday, you can basically just do 1m->10m->2 days, and then if you mess it up on Wednesday, then re-study it 10 minutes later, you have a high chance of remembering it fine for Friday. (you don't increase the interval but you don't reset the card.)

Some people say you can't use Anki to "learn" but that's just false. The 1m->10m doesn't really bother me.

so you don't reset the card by answering "hard" instead of "i don't know" even though you don't know? or does that learn ahead limit affect the resetting of cards
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#16
Yeah, cards don't get reset, because of the re-learning principle. In short, if you knew something before, re-learning it isn't as hard, and so intervals shouldn't be reset to 0. They don't increase, but they stay the same when you mess up a card. I find that it still works out pretty well with my cards, especially because Japanese exposure is going to fix up cards as well.

It's in ja-dark's blog explaining the whole intervals thing: https://darkjapanese.wordpress.com/2016/...crit-v3-0/
Edited: 2017-05-01, 9:19 pm
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#17
I found Subs2SRS valuable in the beginning, but as time wore on, the repetition got to me.

OPlayer for iPhone has a great new feature where you can create A-B repeating segments, and then save them to a playlist for later listening. I've been using this to extract segments of dramas I've been watching and practice listening to them. It preserves more of the context than Sub2SRS does, and when I get bored of it, I can easily create another set of repeat tracks more easily than I can create new Subs2SRS cards. As an added bonus, this technique works with files with hard coded subs.
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#18
For me subs2srs made reviews interesting and fun, because the sentences are uttered by my favorite actors from my favorite movie or drama. And its some cool scene where kimutaku or Nagase Tomoya lays down the law or whatever Smile
I have cards that make me laugh because its some comedian explaining high-tech ナンパ etc.
It should be fun to learn !

I am forced to use simple japanese word front, english definition in the back cards while studying for JLPT at the moment, it is kind of rough. English is not my first language so of course that adds mental overhead..

If there is a word or thing I would like to learn, I would search though a subs2srs deck and find that word in a sentence surrounded by words/context/grammar I already know.
The only unknown should be the word/thing that I am looking for so that the knowledge rule of N+1 is in effect.
Quickly add that to the main study deck and go on listening or watching whatever it was that had that interesting thing I just had to learn Smile


edit:
How about a card like this every once in a while, always makes me remember that powerful scene...
[Image: 48yQSW4.png]

Won't be forgetting the difference between 最後 and 最期 anytime soon! Smile
Edited: 2017-05-05, 10:05 am
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#19
Oh i never noticed there was a difference.
https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa...1423629414

maybe you should hide the image. it's kinda spoilery???
Edited: 2017-05-05, 3:38 pm
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#20
(2017-05-05, 3:38 pm)howtwosavealif3 Wrote: Oh i never noticed there was a difference.
https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa...1423629414

maybe you should hide the image. it's kinda spoilery???

The scene comes early on, and people probably won't know the source until they see the scene anyway, if they haven't seen it already.
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