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Core with romaji and translation

#1
Hi guys,

Question, is there a Core word list with romaji and translation available? So far I've only seen kana/kanji. Some of us are only learning how to speak, hence the translated words and romaji.

Thank you.
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#2
(2017-04-02, 6:36 am)Mosh88 Wrote: Hi guys,

Question, is there a Core word list with romaji and translation available? So far I've only seen kana/kanji. Some of us are only learning how to speak, hence the translated words and romaji.

Thank you.

I'm glad you wrote this because it shows why there is a need for romaji. 

In case there is no "Core" word list with romaji and an English translation, you could try to make one yourself using this website (which I use a lot).  You can copy and paste Japanese text into it and then convert to romaji and English:

http://nihongo.j-talk.com/
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#3
(2017-04-02, 6:36 am)Mosh88 Wrote: Hi guys,

Question, is there a Core word list with romaji and translation available? So far I've only seen kana/kanji. Some of us are only learning how to speak, hence the translated words and romaji.

Thank you.

Most core lists come with the original English translations for the words and sentences. As for romaji, that can be done on any hiragana to romaji converter site, but, umm, you do realize what website forum you're on, right?
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#4
(2017-04-02, 10:00 am)Nukemarine Wrote:
(2017-04-02, 6:36 am)Mosh88 Wrote: Hi guys,

Question, is there a Core word list with romaji and translation available? So far I've only seen kana/kanji. Some of us are only learning how to speak, hence the translated words and romaji.

Thank you.

Most core lists come with the original English translations for the words and sentences. As for romaji, that can be done on any hiragana to romaji converter site, but, umm, you do realize what website forum you're on, right?


I read and write hiragana/katakana, but don't use them at all for vocabulary learning. Yes, I know what forum I've subscribed to, just asking...
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#5
What level of fluency in the language are you aiming to achieve? If your answer is "higher than beginner", I would suggest you reconsider your approach, ditch romaji and learn real Japanese. Attempting to reach a decent level in Japanese with romaji is the equivalent of Japanese people aiming to reach a decent level in English using Hiragana and Katakana. My 2 cents.
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#6
Even if you find a version of Core with Romaji (though I doubt it), and a few dusty old textbooks that use Romaji, that's all you'll find: textbooks and word lists. You won't find anything authentically Japanese. You won't have access to actual, modern Japanese, because the Japanese don't use Romaji.

They mostly use Kanji, true, and that's a big mountain to climb (it's perfectly understandable if you don't want to climb it for now), but they also use a lot of Kana. If you invest a little time into learning the Kana, it will open up a world of learning opportunities you won't find by sticking with Romaji.

(2017-04-02, 6:36 am)Mosh88 Wrote: Some of us are only learning how to speak, hence the translated words and romaji.

Using Romaji can mislead you about how Japanese is pronounced. Kana is much better for that. Also, some written Japanese is essential, even if you just want to learn how to speak. Japanese is a unique language in that way.

So you're not going to get by without learning Kana.
Edited: 2017-04-02, 4:48 pm
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#7
(2017-04-02, 4:07 pm)KameDemaK Wrote: What level of fluency in the language are you aiming to achieve? If your answer is "higher than beginner", I would suggest you reconsider your approach, ditch romaji and learn real Japanese. Attempting to reach a decent level in Japanese with romaji is the equivalent of Japanese people aiming to reach a decent level in English using Hiragana and Katakana. My 2 cents.

Not really.  Way back before computers, people studied Japanese grammar at as high level as they wished using romaji, with no apparent ill effects. 

For example, the following is from an "old" textbook:

Sake o nomu yoo ni natta no wa kyonen no koto desu.
It was last year that he started to drink sake.

Changing the above romaji into kana/kanji does not add any further nuances or insights into the grammatical construction being taught.
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#8
(2017-04-02, 6:36 pm)phil321 Wrote: Not really.  Way back before computers, people studied Japanese grammar at as high level as they wished using romaji, with no apparent ill effects.

Have you ever met anyone who became fluent in Japanese without learning the Kana?
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#9
(2017-04-02, 6:45 pm)Stansfield123 Wrote:
(2017-04-02, 6:36 pm)phil321 Wrote: Not really.  Way back before computers, people studied Japanese grammar at as high level as they wished using romaji, with no apparent ill effects.

Have you ever met anyone who became fluent in Japanese without learning the Kana?

Of course not.  Romaji is just one of the tools to be used in the study of Japanese. 

For instance, I passed the N5 and I'm studying for the N4.  I'm reading real Japanese short stories etc.   I'm obviously comfortable with kana and kanji (I finished RTK1 several years ago).

However, when I'm doing a session with my tutor and he's explaining some grammar point to me, I write it down in romaji simply because I can take notes a hell of a lot faster in romaji than kana/kanji.
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#10
(2017-04-02, 6:36 am)Mosh88 Wrote: Hi guys,

Question, is there a Core word list with romaji and translation available? So far I've only seen kana/kanji. Some of us are only learning how to speak, hence the translated words and romaji.

Thank you.

iknow.jp (where some of the core decks stem from) has a romaji mode. Never tried it myself, but I've seen it in the options. Nowadays it's a paid service though, but you can look at like... 5? cards for free or so to see if the format suits you at all.
You said you can read and write kana though, so I think you might as well go for that instead of romaji? You'll only ever get faster at reading them.
Edited: 2017-04-03, 7:37 am
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#11
If you want to exclusively study speaking and actively refuse to touch reading, then what use is romaji exactly?

Just listen and speak. There's nothing else to it. Romaji will simply confuse you. If reading is useful to you then learn to read Japanese or if it's not, don't.

So do you want to only study aural skills or not?

Reading romaji will only screw up your aural abilities by making you think Japanese phonology is equivalent to English.
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#12
(2017-04-02, 6:36 pm)phil321 Wrote: Not really.  Way back before computers, people studied Japanese grammar at as high level as they wished using romaji, with no apparent ill effects.

--> APPARENT <-- That's your keyword there. Why would you delay the acquisition of kana/kanji except for those who don't want to acquire it at all? Procrastination is the enemy of progress. Firstly, there's no single standardized way of writing romaji, whereas kanji/kana is standardized. Secondly, how do you romanize e.g. 単位? "Tani", right? Guess what, you'll be pronouncing it たに then, which will be wrong. And let's not get started with homophones like "kami". "Hair", "God" or "paper"? How will the OP check those words when they come up in Anki isolated like that?

You write faster in romaji than kana, fine. I do too. But with my private tutor I always made the effort to write kana for everything Japanese. The result is I've become quite fast in writing Japanese. You'll appreciate that when writing small notes or New Year Cards in Japan. Or when attempting to tackle a higher level of JLPT where time is limited.

Romaji should only be used to learn hiragana/katakana and for foreigners who have no interest in learning Japanese either at all or past the beginner stage. And yes, that's my opinion, feel free to have yours and disagree.
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#13
(2017-04-03, 12:07 pm)KameDemaK Wrote: [quote pid='243437' dateline='1491176218']
Romaji should only be used to learn hiragana/katakana and for foreigners who have no interest in learning Japanese either at all or past the beginner stage. And yes, that's my opinion, feel free to have yours and disagree.

[/quote]

Yes, we'll have to just feel free to disagree, since I finished RTK1 a while ago, I passed the N5 in the top 16%, I'm studying now for the N4, I read real Japanese stories/articles, and for all that I still sometimes use romaji in my private study mainly because it's convenient.  Romaji is simply one of the tools in my toolbox.

I don't know why it is that with some people, telling them that you use romaji is like showing Dracula the Cross.
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#14
(2017-04-03, 12:34 pm)phil321 Wrote: I don't know why it is that with some people, telling them that you use romaji is like showing Dracula the Cross.

That's because switching to kana earlier will increase reading speed and ability and not switching to kana has no benefits at all.
Edited: 2017-04-03, 12:53 pm
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#15
(2017-04-03, 12:34 pm)phil321 Wrote: Yes, we'll have to just feel free to disagree, since I finished RTK1 a while ago, I passed the N5 in the top 16%, I'm studying now for the N4, I read real Japanese stories/articles, and for all that I still sometimes use romaji in my private study mainly because it's convenient.  Romaji is simply one of the tools in my toolbox.

I don't know why it is that with some people, telling them that you use romaji is like showing Dracula the Cross.

It's been explained why. In this thread. On this page.
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#16
(2017-04-02, 6:36 pm)phil321 Wrote:
(2017-04-02, 4:07 pm)KameDemaK Wrote: What level of fluency in the language are you aiming to achieve? If your answer is "higher than beginner", I would suggest you reconsider your approach, ditch romaji and learn real Japanese. Attempting to reach a decent level in Japanese with romaji is the equivalent of Japanese people aiming to reach a decent level in English using Hiragana and Katakana. My 2 cents.

Not really.  Way back before computers, people studied Japanese grammar at as high level as they wished using romaji, with no apparent ill effects. 

For example, the following is from an "old" textbook:

Sake o nomu yoo ni natta no wa kyonen no koto desu.
It was last year that he started to drink sake.

Changing the above romaji into kana/kanji does not add any further nuances or insights into the grammatical construction being taught.

By saying that you're also saying kanji are useless and writing everything in hiragana is totally fine, if not better because it is faster.
Punctuationandspaceinenglishdoesntaddanynuancesorinsightsintothegrammaticalconstructionbeingtaught
Your exemple could be read a lot faster using kana/kanji.

Maybe you just lack confidence (not to confuse with arrogance)?
It might be painful at first to write in kana/kanji, but delaying the effort is what hurts you the most.
Maybe you don't realise how much you lose by not using it.
Do you consider yourself a beginner? you don't seem to.
Romaji is holding you back more than helping you at that point, plus it is painful to read.
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#17
(2017-04-03, 3:13 pm)pied2porc Wrote:
(2017-04-02, 6:36 pm)phil321 Wrote:
(2017-04-02, 4:07 pm)KameDemaK Wrote: What level of fluency in the language are you aiming to achieve? If your answer is "higher than beginner", I would suggest you reconsider your approach, ditch romaji and learn real Japanese. Attempting to reach a decent level in Japanese with romaji is the equivalent of Japanese people aiming to reach a decent level in English using Hiragana and Katakana. My 2 cents.

Not really.  Way back before computers, people studied Japanese grammar at as high level as they wished using romaji, with no apparent ill effects. 

For example, the following is from an "old" textbook:

Sake o nomu yoo ni natta no wa kyonen no koto desu.
It was last year that he started to drink sake.

Changing the above romaji into kana/kanji does not add any further nuances or insights into the grammatical construction being taught.

By saying that you're also saying kanji are useless and writing everything in hiragana is totally fine, if not better because it is faster.
Punctuationandspaceinenglishdoesntaddanynuancesorinsightsintothegrammaticalconstructionbeingtaught
Your exemple could be read a lot faster using kana/kanji.

Maybe you just lack confidence (not to confuse with arrogance)?
It might be painful at first to write in kana/kanji, but delaying the effort is what hurts you the most.
Maybe you don't realise how much you lose by not using it.
Do you consider yourself a beginner? you don't seem to.
Romaji is holding you back more than helping you at that point, plus it is painful to read.

LOL!  Your example sentence in romaji omits spaces between the words--romaji is NEVER written without spaces between the words so your argument that my example could be read a lot faster in kana/kanji doesn't hold any water.
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#18
So uhh while I don't care much about the romaji debate and please excuse me for going off topic for a moment, but does anyone know why john555 got banned? It happened around the time I stopped bothering to check the forums because of the incessant arguments he started about romaji and old textbooks. Did he ask for his account to be deleted?

Just curious
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#19
(2017-04-03, 4:05 pm)phil321 Wrote:
(2017-04-03, 3:13 pm)pied2porc Wrote:
(2017-04-02, 6:36 pm)phil321 Wrote:
(2017-04-02, 4:07 pm)KameDemaK Wrote: What level of fluency in the language are you aiming to achieve? If your answer is "higher than beginner", I would suggest you reconsider your approach, ditch romaji and learn real Japanese. Attempting to reach a decent level in Japanese with romaji is the equivalent of Japanese people aiming to reach a decent level in English using Hiragana and Katakana. My 2 cents.

Not really.  Way back before computers, people studied Japanese grammar at as high level as they wished using romaji, with no apparent ill effects. 

For example, the following is from an "old" textbook:

Sake o nomu yoo ni natta no wa kyonen no koto desu.
It was last year that he started to drink sake.

Changing the above romaji into kana/kanji does not add any further nuances or insights into the grammatical construction being taught.

By saying that you're also saying kanji are useless and writing everything in hiragana is totally fine, if not better because it is faster.
Punctuationandspaceinenglishdoesntaddanynuancesorinsightsintothegrammaticalconstructionbeingtaught
Your exemple could be read a lot faster using kana/kanji.

Maybe you just lack confidence (not to confuse with arrogance)?
It might be painful at first to write in kana/kanji, but delaying the effort is what hurts you the most.
Maybe you don't realise how much you lose by not using it.
Do you consider yourself a beginner? you don't seem to.
Romaji is holding you back more than helping you at that point, plus it is painful to read.

LOL!  Your example sentence in romaji omits spaces between the words--romaji is NEVER written without spaces between the words so your argument that my example could be read a lot faster in kana/kanji doesn't hold any water.

ok, I see that you didn't get the point, and maybe i wasn't all that clear.
Kanji acts like spaces and punctuations in western languages, it gives rythm to your sentences and avoid confusion between homonym. It gives you insights and clarify nuances about what you're talking about.
Getting rid of kanji is like writing without spaces and punctuation in english (i grant you it's not a 1:1 parallel).
Now take your romaji and write sentences a bit more complex than drinking sake, that could mean trouble.
But other than that, I think people are here to help more than anything else, there is no need to be on the defensive.
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#20
(2017-04-03, 4:15 pm)Flamerokz Wrote: So uhh while I don't care much about the romaji debate and please excuse me for going off topic for a moment, but does anyone know why john555 got banned? It happened around the time I stopped bothering to check the forums because of the incessant arguments he started about romaji and old textbooks. Did he ask for his account to be deleted?

Just curious
That made wonder too: The last searchable entries tell that the last fights he had weren't about romaji but ANKI. But nothing special ...

He started to mass delete his entries last February, so probably he was banned then.
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#21
(2017-04-03, 4:15 pm)Flamerokz Wrote: So uhh while I don't care much about the romaji debate and please excuse me for going off topic for a moment, but does anyone know why john555 got banned? It happened around the time I stopped bothering to check the forums because of the incessant arguments he started about romaji and old textbooks. Did he ask for his account to be deleted?

Just curious

I was wondering the same thing, because this seems to be an exact rehash of that. Maybe, it's the same person?
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#22
(2017-04-03, 9:57 am)NinKenDo Wrote: If you want to exclusively study speaking and actively refuse to touch reading, then what use is romaji exactly?

Just listen and speak. There's nothing else to it. Romaji will simply confuse you. If reading is useful to you then learn to read Japanese or if it's not, don't.

So do you want to only study aural skills or not?

Reading romaji will only screw up your aural abilities by making you think Japanese phonology is equivalent to English.

I think this is a pretty fair point. If you (the OP I mean) really want to only learn how to speak and not care about the written language at all, maybe an audio course would actually be a better idea (Primsleur or Japanesepod101 come to mind) It might require some more effort yourself but you could still make flashcards from that as well I guess.
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#23
(2017-04-03, 12:34 pm)phil321 Wrote: [quote pid='243464' dateline='1491239272']
Yes, we'll have to just feel free to disagree, since I finished RTK1 a while ago, I passed the N5 in the top 16%, I'm studying now for the N4, I read real Japanese stories/articles, and for all that I still sometimes use romaji in my private study mainly because it's convenient.  Romaji is simply one of the tools in my toolbox.

I don't know why it is that with some people, telling them that you use romaji is like showing Dracula the Cross.

[/quote]

When I said "it's my opinion", I meant exactly that, that I don't pretend to impose it as scientific truth. I respect that you want to use romaji, just like I respect those who want to use Internet Explorer instead of Google Chrome, for example. And I will still strongly discourage to use romaji and IE.

Why don't you try to disprove the disadvantages I brought up with romaji in my previous post? If you start learning Greek or Russian, you will also write transliterations of those languages faster with the latin alphabet in the beginning, but I don't think you'll find anybody who wouldn't suggest you to switch to Greek and Cyrilic alphabets immediately. Why certain people like you suggest doing so for Japanese I find intriguing.

Oh, and I recently saw this again. Very fitting. xD
[Image: comic1.jpg]
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#24
(2017-04-03, 9:57 am)NinKenDo Wrote: Reading romaji will only screw up your aural abilities by making you think Japanese phonology is equivalent to English.

I keep hearing this; but then how do people learn any language that uses roman letters? The tendency to read L2 using L1 pronunciation rules is a real problem to be aware of, but it only really screws up the people who don't pay attention to pronunciation or don't use enough audio at the beginning.

Not to say that romaji is a good idea. Learning kana makes Japanese pronunciation easier to learn than most other languages. And learning kana first is probably less work than learning to pronounce Japanese correctly using romaji.
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#25
(2017-04-04, 5:53 am)HelenF Wrote: I keep hearing this; but then how do people learn any language that uses roman letters?
Most people learn it with pronunciation errors. And they keep many of those errors for a long, long time. Often, until the day they die.
(2017-04-04, 5:53 am)HelenF Wrote: but it only really screws up the people who don't pay attention to pronunciation
For most people, language learning isn't an academic pursuit. They learn on the fly, it's not a well thought through and carefully planned process.

Paying attention to pronunciation 100% of the time is hard. Adopting Kana from the start, on the other hand, isn't, and it's going to save you from internalizing a lot of pronunciation errors.
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