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Moving back to OS X ?

#26
Wow. My late 2009 iMac used to be 1800 € tops for the 27 inch model.

Now you have to pay upwards of 2300 € for the 27 inch models.

A 256 GB flash drive upgrade (no Fusion Drive) is +100 USD, in Europe it's +240 €

You want 16 GB RAM you add 240 € (for + 8 GB) when 2x 8 GB of branded "gamer" SDRAM like HyperX is 130 € on Amazon. Even the most ridiculous overclocker / gaming enthusiast pair of 2x 8 GB is 160 €.

I knew Apple was ridiculous about RAM price but the Flash upgrade and the total price of iMacs nowadays is kinda disappointing.

Is it worth it for a 5 K display ? Meh. Guess I'm not switching soon after all. :/
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#27
I'm having seconds thoughts about a Hackintosh now.. particularly if I continue to work inside a VM for some time it's much less of a gamble. I have a free 128GB SSD for it, and my PC was already built for that.

Are they very stable these days, and can you use the latest OS X version?
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#28
I'm pretty sure they run the latest OSX/MacOS that's out there. I have a Hack on my main PC that I installed dual boot just to mess around with it, but I haven't used it too much since I still actually prefer to develop on my retina-MBP. Here is what I will say though. When I first installed back on Maverick, it was a little tough. My mobo wasn't very standard, it was an ASUS and was a mobo I bought back in 2012 in Japan and was apparently not common. I found a guide specifically for it on the TonyMac forums and followed that during installation. Even doing that, I had about as many problems getting it going as I had experienced with getting some Linux distros working in the past (pre-2010). I had to mess around with KEXTs to get everything working. Eventually I got it working and nearly everything worked. My Nvidia driver worked, SSD was being stripped properly, the CPU was even being properly scaled based on workload requirements, and I could actually put the system into Sleep mode. Eventually I updated it to El Capitan/Sierra and surprised at how moderately painless the process was. The only thing I had issues with was the video driver which didn't work with the new upgrade and I had to remember how to get into the bootloader (which I had disabled to make it boot straight to Mac), in order to disable the vid driver from starting so I could update it. Beyond that the update was incredibly painless and I was surprised how easy the new Clover installer was.

I only ever use Mac for dev work though so I can't comment on the stability of Adobe's applications on a hack really, but in the little that I have used it, I haven't experienced a kernal Panic or anything like that. I also suspect if you followed a TonyMacs build guide complete with a Gigabyte board, you should probably have a much easier time than I had. If you have the parts and time to do it, it might be worth checking out before you drop 2k+ euros on a new system.
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#29
I built a small hack a few months ago with sierra. Since sierra was relatively new at the time, it took a while getting everything working properly. Most things worked, but the big thing was audio wasn't working and It took a lot of messing around to get it to work. In retrospect it wasn't too hard, but I was learning about bootloaders and kext files so I ended up doing a lot of wrong things and had to re-install a quite a few times.

If I were to do it again, I would follow one of the guides and configure my box exactly like the person who wrote the guide. That way, you have a good idea that it's not going to take days getting the thing working.

The main thing about hacks is that I can't stand any of the pc cases out there. I almost considered building my own case like this guy did because I couldn't find a single one that looked good enough to have on my desktop. People usually say Lian Li cases are good design, but IMHO ther cases are just barely "not ugly" but I wouldn't call them good looking. I'll probably end up bolting this one to the bottom of my desk and it won't really be an issue, but what's up with pc cases? Aren't there any pc users out there that like to have a computer that's just simple and elegant? I'm not really into the cases with glass windows and neon inside like it's a lowrider or something.
Edited: 2017-02-13, 5:19 pm
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#30
(2017-02-13, 10:26 am)ファブリス Wrote: Wow. My late 2009 iMac used to be 1800 € tops for the 27 inch model.

Now you have to pay upwards of 2300 € for the 27 inch models.

A 256 GB flash drive upgrade (no Fusion Drive) is +100 USD, in Europe it's +240 €

You want 16 GB RAM  you add 240 €  (for + 8 GB)  when 2x 8 GB of branded "gamer" SDRAM  like HyperX is 130 € on Amazon. Even the most ridiculous overclocker / gaming enthusiast pair of 2x 8 GB is 160 €.

I knew Apple was ridiculous about RAM price but the Flash upgrade and the total price of iMacs nowadays is kinda disappointing.

Is it worth it for a 5 K display ? Meh. Guess I'm not switching soon after all. :/

Apple is semi-famous for stable prices within their lines.  I would chalk the price discrepancy up to a combination of inflation and different specs.  I did a little search and 1800€ in 2009 is 2019€ now.  As you've noticed, a little more or less RAM can account for the rest of the difference.

As far as ram and harddrives go, well that's the way it's always been with macs.  Apple's margins are in the top 3% of the consumer electronics industry.  That's why you can build a similarly speced hack for less than 1/2 the price.  But you can bet the mac is working out of the box and you don't need to worry about incompatible parts or unexpected glitches.
Edited: 2017-02-13, 9:25 pm
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#31
(2017-02-13, 5:17 pm)yogert909 Wrote: but what's up with pc cases?  Aren't there any pc users out there that like to have a computer that's just simple and elegant?  I'm not really into the cases with glass windows and neon inside like it's a lowrider or something.
There was a time in my life that I liked the idea of windows and that other nonsense but then I realized it was pointless and I didn't like the idea of LED case lights or anything. The closer to the case being a solid color with few to no external bays, the better IMO. I actually kind of like the the cube cases that are out there. I've been eying some for a new system I might build to replace my '09 laptop that I use for browsing/email/etc. The cube designs allow you to split the drive bays and mobo area up which is kind of nice. A pet peeve I've kind of realized I have about some of the newer cases is special drive bay mounting systems. I lost some of the parts for one my cases and it proved to be a pain to mount stuff without the parts. I guess I should just keep those special parts inside the case in the future so I always know where they are.
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#32
I don't see the logic of the Fusion drive at all. Maybe to keep the price down, or rather margins up?

It's one of these stupid Apple decisions when they don't give you the options any reasonable person would expect ... or take away ports like in the new Macbook Pro. I'm holding on to my early 2015 MB Pro as long as I can because I have USB devices and we have HDMI ports for room displays at work.
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#33
(2017-02-14, 12:33 pm)Irixmark Wrote: I don't see the logic of the Fusion drive at all. Maybe to keep the price down, or rather margins up?

It's one of these stupid Apple decisions when they don't give you the options any reasonable person would expect ... or take away ports like in the new Macbook Pro. I'm holding on to my early 2015 MB Pro as long as I can because I have USB devices and we have HDMI ports for room displays at work.

The logic of a fusion drive is simple. SSDs are faster quieter than HDDs but cost a lot more.  So people like to have both and put their frequently accessed files on the SSD and less often accessed files on the HDD.  I'm sure you know this.  You could split them up yourself but the operating system has a better idea which files are frequently accessed and how much space is left on your SSD.  Why not let the computer do what it's good at and not worry about it?  Also, it's easier to organize on large drive rather than having several drives where you need to thing about organization on top of how ofter files are accessed.  I really don't see the argument that you 'need to have control' - it just sound like work to me. TLDR; It's a fast inexpensive drive that you don't need to mess with.

It's not just a mac thing too.  You can buy hybrid drives for your pc and I'd imagine there is software to accomplish this if you want to create your own.  When I built my hack, I made my own fusion drive.  The only downside I can see is my data is split between two drives, so it's the possibility of a crash may be 2x (not sure about this).  But I always back everything up on an external time machine drive, so it's not really an issue.

Taking away ports is an argument I've heard since I bought my first mac without a SCSI port.  People thought it was the end of mac or stupid or something, but hmm I never missed it.
Edited: 2017-02-14, 3:06 pm
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#34
(2017-02-13, 3:35 pm)vix86 Wrote: I only ever use Mac for dev work though so I can't comment on the stability of Adobe's applications on a hack really, but in the little that I have used it, I haven't experienced a kernal Panic or anything like that. I also suspect if you followed a TonyMacs build guide complete with a Gigabyte board, you should probably have a much easier time than I had. If you have the parts and time to do it, it might be worth checking out before you drop 2k+ euros on a new system.

The parts I selected for this PC were based on a TonyMac guide in late 2011 I think? The parts are: Intel Core i5-3570K (3.4 GHz), Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H (with UEFI), Gigabyte GeForce GTX 670, TP-LINK TL-WDN4800  (wifi). I think I succesfully installed OS X 10.8 once. 

I'll give it a shot. If anything help me decide if I want to buy the real thing. That Gigabyte board though is one of their first UEFI I think and it is a little buggy.

Now the trick is how to get Sierra. I have a Macbook Pro from mid 2009. It seems that I can't upgrade to Sierra on it (only MBP mid 2010 and up), but I have the  Mountain Lion installer on it. Probably from the last Hackintosh. Presumably I can upgrade then to El Capitan.

Instead I found an article about patching Sierra for MBP mid 2009, and they have a link to the Sierra installer...

So yeah I don't want to buy a new machine at all. I would end up with the equivalent of a Late 2012 iMac which had a Core i5 - 3470 which is pretty similar, as if I upgraded that iMac to Sierra... sounds like a reasonable setup.
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#35
(2017-02-13, 9:25 pm)yogert909 Wrote:
(2017-02-13, 10:26 am)ファブリス Wrote: Wow. My late 2009 iMac used to be 1800 € tops for the 27 inch model.

(...)

Apple is semi-famous for stable prices within their lines.  I would chalk the price discrepancy up to a combination of inflation and different specs.  I did a little search and 1800€ in 2009 is 2019€ now.  As you've noticed, a little more or less RAM can account for the rest of the difference.

As far as ram and harddrives go, well that's the way it's always been with macs.  Apple's margins are in the top 3% of the consumer electronics industry.  That's why you can build a similarly speced hack for less than 1/2 the price.  But you can bet the mac is working out of the box and you don't need to worry about incompatible parts or unexpected glitches.

Could it be related to the BREXIT thing? I Heard Apple upgraded the prices in UK but I didn't think it would affect Belgium or other countries in Europe.

Yep I totally understand about the quality of life. It's worth it to me.

What bummed me is I realize I'd have to buy the upgrade to SSD only, because their 1TB Fusion Drive, if you read the small print, is actually just 24 GB Flash and the rest is an HDD.

I want to split that drive in two, so I can make sure the HDD is only storing data / backups, and I don't want to hear the grinding of the HDD going on. Ideally the HDD is for backups & data I only need occasionally and would go to sleep.

Better yet, I'd want to have two SSDs in there, and no HDD at all. But that's not in the options how would that even work? 

If you go "all flash" their option of 512 GB likely is one drive; That's not acceptable either. If it breaks, I'm in a bad place. Having two SSDs is much more secure.

So can you even get two SSDs in there, and then how much do you pay on top? I'm guessing maybe a repair shop can do that. With the price they are asking, I'd be better off buying the base model ,and then pay a shop to install two SSDs that I currently own. If that's even possible within their warranty...
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#36
(2017-02-13, 5:17 pm)yogert909 Wrote: The main thing about hacks is that I can't stand any of the pc cases out there.  I almost considered building my own case like this guy did because I couldn't find a single one that looked good enough to have on my desktop.  People usually say Lian Li cases are good design, but IMHO ther cases are just barely "not ugly" but I wouldn't call them good looking.   I'll probably end up bolting this one to the bottom of my desk and it won't really be an issue, but what's up with pc cases?  Aren't there any pc users out there that like to have a computer that's just simple and elegant?  I'm not really into the cases with glass windows and neon inside like it's a lowrider or something.

I bought a nice Corsair "Carbide" that looks similar to this .. basically a black monolith. Mine has a plexiglass pane. A friend tried to make fun of it, but I actually like it. Even without the LEDs and whatnot you can see the parts inside why not? Problem is the inside very quikcly accumulates a ton of dust and it doesn't look that nice anymore :Tongue  Oh, and it's heavy AFFFFF
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#37
(2017-02-14, 3:49 pm)ファブリス Wrote: What bummed me is I realize I'd have to buy the upgrade to SSD only, because their 1TB Fusion Drive, if you read the small print, is actually just 24 GB Flash and the rest is an HDD.

I want to split that drive in two, so I can make sure the HDD is only storing data / backups, and I don't want to hear the grinding of the HDD going on. Ideally the HDD is for backups & data I only need occasionally and would go to sleep.

Better yet, I'd want to have two SSDs in there, and no HDD at all. But that's not in the options how would that even work? 

If you go "all flash" their option of 512 GB likely is one drive; That's not acceptable either. If it breaks, I'm in a bad place. Having two SSDs is much more secure.

So can you even get two SSDs in there, and then how much do you pay on top? I'm guessing maybe a repair shop can do that. With the price they are asking, I'd be better off buying the base model ,and then pay a shop to install two SSDs that I currently own. If that's even possible within their warranty...

This is all just theoretical, but the drive bay has to be big enough to fit a HDD and a SSD for the fusion drive. I'm not sure if the HDD is a laptop form factor or full size. It's likely that you should be able to get a fusion drive imac and reformat the drives as 2 separate drives as that's all that they are in the end. It should be as easy as booting from a thumb drive and deleting the logical drive then reformatting the individual drives.

If you want to go the route of getting a small HDD and swapping it for two larger drives, they "should fit" as long as you get the same form factor as whatever apple is using as the HDD part of the fusion drive. The one thing I would worry about is an iMac with one harddrive wouldn't have internal connections for 2 drives but it probably does. You should be able to find the answer with a little googling.

Another simpler option would be just get the imac with the SSD and have your data on a NAS or external drive somewhere. The NAS would be better if you are concerned with noise as it could be in another room and you wouldn't hear it.

I just found you an article on how to split up a fusion drive.
Edited: 2017-02-14, 7:33 pm
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#38
Thanks yogert. I linked to the fusion splitting drive earlier in the thread. I'd have to add +360 € for the 2 To Fusion Drive, which would in theory split to a 128 Go Flash drive, and a 900-ish HDD.

But this morning I thought about the second option. Indeed there must be a way to use an external enclosure via Thunderbolt and put in 1 or 2 of my SSDs, or just buy one of the Thunderbolt compatible external drives so at least I'd have a second SSD. It seems like you can even boot OS X, Win or Linux from the external drives. (eg. [this StarTech external enclosure](https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Exte...B00IFZN842))

If I went that route, and I saved 360 € I could still split the drive, and it seems like Sierra could just fit in the 24 GB flash. And then the inside HDD could be used for backups only ... assuming it stops spinning when not in use.

I mean lol... those 360 € probably gets you an enclosure AND a SSD drive.
Edited: 2017-02-15, 6:17 am
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#39
Slightly off topic:

Just heard about https://www.figma.com/ ... it is described as a potent alternative to Sketch ! it's web based and hence provides a UX design tool that could potentially replace Photoshop UX / Web design in native Linux. Even more impressive is it appears you can import many UI kits made for Sketch. Very cool...
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