This is a really long question for i have a lot of them, so i hope those who could spare some of their time to try and help a young, learning person on how to master the language of japanese have patience for it.

Currently, i'm hitting the wall known as the infamous Kanji, and i have no idea how do i get around it,
I have read from a website that using Anki is good so i tried but...
I'm currently using Anki's All in One Kanji deck.
Now the problem here is that, using it, there's apparently Onyomi and Kunyomi, followed by a few example of compound kanjis and stuff (i think).
I tried googling which said onyomi is supposedly used when it's in compound with just kanjis, and kunyomi when there's hiragana merged with it but i have no clue which am i supposed to memorize to use.
For example:
上 has the kunyomi of のぼ.す, あ.がる, うえ etc. and the onyomi of ジョウ、ショウand so on,
but when it is mixed with other letters it may become:
for kunyomi part:
上がる(あがる) agaru
or 上り(のぼり) nobori
and as for onyomi there could be:
目上(めうえ) meue
or 上手(じょうず) jouzu


and each of these compounds have different meanings.

So exactly what is the most efficient way for me to learn kanji? At this point i'm not even sure what to memorize, should i memorize kunyomi, or onyomi, and when do i use them when i see them in compound kanjis or mixed with other words, because i cannot stress this enough, i don't know what to memorize, or should i read all the compound kanji examples written there, and memorize each and every single one of their readings and meanings? like instead of memorizing it could have the kunyomi of (Blank), i just straight up memorize what it is read as when it's mixed with whatever words?
Honestly i have no clue, which is why i'm seeking help. I hope that those of you who are experienced would be able to give me some tips and insight as to how and what approach am i supposed to take while trying to learn kanji.
Thanks alot in advance.    

Depending on how good your (non-reading) Japanese is, it's probably a better idea to learn how to write some common words. In your example with 上, there is really no reason to separately memorize the reading ショウ, as it is fairly rare. But of course, as a beginner, you have little to no way of knowing this.

As a rule of thumb, you can think of onyomi as parts of words that generally don't come by themselves, kind of like "un" in "unknown", or "lumi" in "luminesence".

There are lots of things that come from experience, so you can't expect to make sense of everything at once. For example, 上 has a lot of readings, but for an experienced reader, there is no problem discerning which reading is being used. One of the most certain ways to tell readings apart is the endings from verbs. A beginner might be confused if 上る is のぼる，あがる or あげる, however some experience will tell you that あげる and あがる are written 上げる and 上げる respectively. Even in more literary settings where あがる can be shortened 上る, context will usually settle things.

There are also different ways of approaching learning kanji, of which I think there is a difference in opinion on this forum on which one is best. One is to focus on the kanji themselves, and learn them in a logical order due to how they are constructed. You introduce one new shape at a time and learn different kanji containing that shape and get some insight into how that particular shape contributes to the overall meaning of the kanji. Say you start by learning the numbers 1-10, followed by 口, 月 and 日 (which is what you would do if you followed the order in Heisig's Remembering the Kanji). You would then proceed to learn 古吾朋明唱品呂昌早旭世旦胆亘. Which is comparatively easy to learn. The problem, however, is that out of these kanji, 吾朋呂昌旭旦亘 are mostly quite rare. Definitely not something I'd class as useful to a beginner. Also, this method tends to make people focus solely on learning the shapes of kanji, and take a break from learning actual Japanese for a few months, until they have plowed through all the kanji. Thus the difference in opinion.

The other way, is to learn the kanji in order of usefulness and implement your understanding of them is your normal studying. This method usually means more work per kanji, but you also directly apply your new found knowledge onto Japanese, since the kanji you learn are all (mostly) from words you already know.

The method I used back in the day was a combination of these two. When there was a common word that contained a kanji I didn't know, which there are a fair amount of in the beginning, I would also look up similar kanji that I would deem as common. Say I would want to learn 法 in 文法 (grammar), I would then proceed to learn 去 in 過去 (past).

In my own experience, and what I've gotten from lurking these forums for years is that there is no 'correct' way. People have trouble with different aspects of kanji learning.

And to answer your bolded question. You should memorize common words. Whether a words is read using kunyomi or onyomi or a mix of the two is of little interest in the beginning. If a word is in onyomi, it usually means it's a loanword from Chinese, and kunyomi that it is a native Japanese word. However this is not something you have to consider in the early stages.

TLDR; If you want instant use out of your kanji studies, try to find a limited set of very common kanji, where the important readings, accompanied by important words are given. I think this is important in order to get your footing.

(2016-05-29, 7:42 am)Taishi Wrote: You would then proceed to learn 古吾朋明唱品呂昌早旭世旦胆亘. Which is comparatively easy to learn. The problem, however, is that out of these kanji, 吾朋呂昌旭旦亘 are mostly quite rare.

The thing is that those 'rare' kanji are rare only as stand-alone kanji. All or almost all of them are building blocks for other kanji.

Also, 呂 appears in fairly common words (風呂), 朋 appears in fairly common personal names (朋子), and 旭 appears in place names that are often mentioned in the news (旭市). Almost all the kanji in RTK are either building blocks for other kanji or appear frequently... the notable exception being the kanji for specific species of trees. Aside from a few obvious ones (松、桜) those aren't too useful unless you're actually in Japan and like taking walks through parks and reading the tree placards.

Anyway, there's a stickied topic on 'What's the point of RTK?' so I'll just leave you with a link to that,
http://forum.koohii.com/thread-1864.html

(2016-05-29, 1:29 am)JustTryingToLearn Wrote: This is a really long question for i have a lot of them, so i hope those who could spare some of their time to try and help a young, learning person on how to master the language of japanese have patience for it.

*snip*

So exactly what is the most efficient way for me to learn kanji? At this point i'm not even sure what to memorize, should i memorize kunyomi, or onyomi, and when do i use them when i see them in compound kanjis or mixed with other words, because i cannot stress this enough, i don't know what to memorize, or should i read all the compound kanji examples written there, and memorize each and every single one of their readings and meanings? like instead of memorizing it could have the kunyomi of (Blank), i just straight up memorize what it is read as when it's mixed with whatever words?
Thanks alot in advance.    

Well, this is RevTK, so we normally hold to the idea is your first step is learn Kanji as if it were an English language concept. The next step is to learn how Japanese use Kanji in their language. My usual advice is you learn Onyomi and Kunyomi intuitively via vocabulary. 

There are some short cut methods like Heisig's Kunyomi mnemonics (each kana is associated with an object, use the objects and the word you're learning in a imaginary story to memorize pronunciation). This is outlined in RTK 2, but it's not very popular and I don't know anyone that used it. There are also Onyomi shortcuts like Movie Method which links Onyomi pronunciation to a movie or TV show then you populate scenes in that show with Kanji that use that Onyomi. I have done that to some success, but never got around to creating a complete online example.

Really though, if you learn Core 2k/6k that has on optimal sorting order, you'll notice the pronunciations of kanji because a group of words that use that pronunciation start to pop up together. If you see two different words with the same kanji and pronunciation (include voiced and plosive and glottal stop variants as being the same pronunciation), just make a note of it. While I never got around to fully complete it, I had made a spreadsheet of Core 2k/6k that meant to capitalize on this idea. Just couldn't be bothered with filling in the pronunciations of entries. You're welcome to it if you want.

Anyway, learn Kanji recognition via English. Learn onyomi/kunyumi via vocabulary. Learn vocabulary via sentences. Learn grammar via sentences. Learn actual Japanese through native sources.

The nice thing about doing RTK1 is that you're breaking up the tasks into something more manageable. That's all there is to it. No magic or anything. Instead of learning everything all at once, you break things down: first learn a temporary meaning in English to associate with the form of the kanji, then you go back and learn on/kun yomi at your own pace. The stories simply help as mnemonics.

The only thing is, **don't stop reviewing RTK1** when you finish, until you've nailed all of the on/kun yomi readings you feel like you need to know. It's really tempting to stop reviewing as soon as you finish the first 2048, but you haven't really "finished" anything, you've just gotten through the first step. (The sad part is, you haven't even learned any Japanese!) The real work comes afterwards, so don't undo your work by stopping the reviews. Don't get frustrated, either.

One thing you CAN do is replace English keywords with Japanese for kanji you feel like you've nailed meaning-wise. That way, the English keywords really will fade away over time!

Try learning radicals! Once you learn radicals a lot of the other "related" Kanji start to make sense and are easier to remember.

(2016-05-29, 6:50 pm)SomeCallMeChris Wrote:

(2016-05-29, 7:42 am)Taishi Wrote: You would then proceed to learn 古吾朋明唱品呂昌早旭世旦胆亘. Which is comparatively easy to learn. The problem, however, is that out of these kanji, 吾朋呂昌旭旦亘 are mostly quite rare.

The thing is that those 'rare' kanji are rare only as stand-alone kanji. All or almost all of them are building blocks for other kanji.

Also, 呂 appears in fairly common words (風呂), 朋 appears in fairly common personal names (朋子), and 旭 appears in place names that are often mentioned in the news (旭市).  Almost all the kanji in RTK are either building blocks for other kanji or appear frequently... the notable exception being the kanji for specific species of trees. Aside from a few obvious ones (松、桜) those aren't too useful unless you're actually in Japan and like taking walks through parks and reading the tree placards.

Anyway, there's a stickied topic on 'What's the point of RTK?' so I'll just leave you with a link to that,
http://forum.koohii.com/thread-1864.html

なるほど！Thanks for the explanation. I think it helps me understand the term a little better now.

It seems that the word "rare" depends on how the user relates to it, which is from their learning perspective?

Out of curiosity, when people refer to "obscure" kanji,  is it the same as "rare" kanji?

Also, I came across some sites that have ratings, and somehow, the word "different" kanji is being used interchangeably with "unique" kanji, or even "unusual" kanji at other times.  Does it mean "unknown" kanji in such situation or refer to something else, such as "different" from the database (sample) size?

(2016-05-29, 1:29 am)JustTryingToLearn Wrote: So exactly what is the most efficient way for me to learn kanji?

At this point i'm not even sure what to memorize, should i memorize kunyomi, or onyomi, and when do i use them when i see them in compound kanjis or mixed with other words, because i cannot stress this enough, i don't know what to memorize, or should i read all the compound kanji examples written there, and memorize each and every single one of their readings and meanings? like instead of memorizing it could have the kunyomi of (Blank), i just straight up memorize what it is read as when it's mixed with whatever words?
Honestly i have no clue, which is why i'm seeking help. I hope that those of you who are experienced would be able to give me some tips and insight as to how and what approach am i supposed to take while trying to learn kanji.
Thanks alot in advance.    

Frankly, there is no exact way and the most efficient way, because it depends on your learning style, and whether your learning style matches  the learning aids (or teaching materials).  

The next thing to consider is the goal or aim of learning the Kanji.  What is your purpose?  
Is it to pass JLPT, for Written Japanese tests, for playing games, reading light novels, etc?

The example 上　you have given above relate closely to those examples from the kanjidamage site, that is based on learning by radicals, of which (newbie) josharoo came along and post it.

(2016-05-31, 9:38 pm)eslang Wrote: なるほど！Thanks for the explanation. I think it helps me understand the term a little better now.

It seems that the word "rare" depends on how the user relates to it, which is from their learning perspective?

Out of curiosity, when people refer to "obscure" kanji,  is it the same as "rare" kanji?

Also, I came across some sites that have ratings, and somehow, the word "different" kanji is being used interchangeably with "unique" kanji, or even "unusual" kanji at other times.  Does it mean "unknown" kanji in such situation or refer to something else, such as "different" from the database (sample) size?

Well, people use words in all kinds of different ways so you can't rely on these terms as having any fixed meaning.

With that warning, I'd say that people talk about 'rare' or 'uncommon' kanji to mean kanji that are in general use, but not seen often.

'obscure' kanji is something that only a scholar or specialist would know - antiquated kanji or kanji used only in a certain field.

'different' or 'unusual' kanji most often refers to spelling words with varying kanji, but in another context maybe 'unusual' is being used the same way we used 'rare' in this thread. (Sometimes two words 'have the same reading but different kanji', while at other times one word can be written with more than one kanji... the 'usual' way and one or more 'unusual' ways.) Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see these words used instead of 'rare' or 'obscure' for the meanings I gave those.

I don't know what a 'unique' kanji would be unless it was referring to someone's calligraphy style, or maybe to a made-up faux kanji... unless you're analyzing a body of work, then you might talk about the count of how many 'unique kanji' appear within a book, meaning your counting how many different kanji appeared and not counting repetitions... you'll have to work that one out from context.
(And I just used 'different kanji' differently from how I described it... hmmm.)

An 'unknown' kanji usually means unknown to the person speaking, but depending on context it could mean an illegible kanji, a blank in a crossword puzzle or the like, or even just be used instead of 'obscure'.

Still, none of these are well-defined terms, so as they say, your mileage may vary. Context will be your friend, hopefully, or else you can ask for clarification.

You should read this article THE 7 DIFFERENT WAYS TO LEARN KANJI (AS I SEE IT)

In regards to learning kanji in general, most people here will recommend (myself included) that you don't try to learn kanji readings in isolation. It is more popular (and organic) to learn kanji within vocabulary. It is popular to learn all the kanji meanings first with RTK, especially here being a RevTK site and all. RTK using mnemonics to help the learner recognize and remember kanji. Then from there, learn the readings of kanji as words.

For example, the kanji for one is listed in jisho as:

Quote:一 one, one radical (no.1)
Kun: ひと-、 ひと.つ
On: イチ、 イツ

Though it's not alot to remember with this particular example, it is easier to remember that 一 means one and how that kanji is used in other ways like:

一つ ひとつ (n,n-adv,io) one; for one thing (often used in itemized lists)
一番 いちばん (n-adv) best; first; number one; game; round; bout; fall; event (in a meet); (P)
一緒 いっしょ (n-adv,n,adj-no) together; at the same time; same; identical; (P)
一寸 ちょいと (adv,uk,int) just a minute; short time; just a little; somewhat; easily; readily; rather; (before a verb in negative form) (will not) easily; hey!; (P)
一寸 ちょっと (adv,uk,int) just a minute; short time; just a little; somewhat; easily; readily; rather; (before a verb in negative form) (will not) easily; hey!; (P)
一寸 ちょと (adv,uk,int) just a minute; short time; just a little; somewhat; easily; readily; rather; (before a verb in negative form) (will not) easily; hey!; (P)
一度 いちど (n-adv) once; one time; on one occasion; temporarily; for a moment; one degree; one tone; one musical interval
一昨年 いっさくねん (n-adv,n-t) year before last; (P)

Basically it is better to remember when I see the word 一寸, I don't think to myself "hmm, which kanji reading of 一 should I use?" but instead just learn that 一寸 = ちょいと = just a minute. No need to overthink about readings of kanji pairing when you just learn how to read the word overall.

Finally, I don't recommend that deck you're using as it's just brute memorization of an isolated kanji with readings. If you are making progress with it, great. But if not, I suggest trying something else.

@ SomeCallMeChris
毎度 ありがとう I really appreciate it.
Thank you for taking the time to explain the terminologies.

Just for discussion purpose, according to this thread below:
Top Japanese kindle books sorted by difficulty
http://forum.koohii.com/thread-12609.html

720 Unique words in 5000 characters
This book uses 720 different words in our 5000-character sample.
http://readyourlevel.jamesknelson.com/grade

unique = different ?

Am I missing something?

(2016-05-31, 10:59 pm)eslang Wrote: unique = different ?  

Am I missing something?

In this case it does. At other times (and as its original primary meaning) it means 'one of a kind, no others like it in the world'. That's the meaning when, for example, 'a unique artifact was unearthed by Dr. Jones during his latest expedition.'

I don't think that meaning is often applied to kanji, or words -- in fact I have trouble imagining a case where it would be used that way -- but it does exist as a meaning for the word.

(2016-05-31, 11:37 pm)SomeCallMeChris Wrote: In this case it does. At other times (and as its original primary meaning) it means 'one of a kind, no others like it in the world'. That's the meaning when, for example, 'a unique artifact was unearthed by Dr. Jones during his latest expedition.'

I don't think that meaning is often applied to kanji, or words -- in fact I have trouble imagining a case where it would be used that way -- but it does exist as a meaning for the word.

お陰様で助かりました。
My curiosity was satisfied.