I know many here would wish they could say these words haha. So with summer coming up I will have at least 10hours of free time/day, usually I would just spend the time gaming/wasting time on other crap but now I'm really in the mood for japanese.

What I'm aiming for is being able to read easy novels/manga, watch jdrama/anime in around 2 months, at least somewhat decently without getting frustrated for not understanding a thing. I am able to watch shounens with around 20-50% comprehension. My vocabulary is probably around early N4, but I can only read a few kanji [~50 ;_;].

What I've done and what I know in japanese:
1) Know hiragana / katakana / ~50kanji
2) Probably around 800-1000 vocabulary
3) Know basic grammar from reading around half of Tae Kim
4) Have read all of the stories in http://life.ou.edu/stories/
5) Watching a few shounens like Groove Adventure Rave [usually understand ~50%], Ao No Exorcist [A bit harder, still understand ~30%]
6) Trying out graded reader [level 1 is super easy, will try level 2]
7) Core 10k sentences [~400 in, 40/day] [learning every single word in every sentence, unless it's something really hard or rare]

I absolutely hated RTK, it was insanely frustrating even at 10-20 kanji/day [stopped after 2 months and kinda abandoned japanese for a while], I would rather learn kanji purely from vocabulary with context so please no RTK ;_;

So what should I do with all that free time ? I don't care about speaking or writing, the only things that matter are reading and listening and I want to get there as fast as possible. Is what I'm doing right now enough ? I have yotsubato but when I read, the meaning usually goes over my head, I want to at least reach a stage where I'm able to casually read yotsubato without a dictionary. Any suggestions ? It can be anime, manga, textbooks, anki decks, novels, readers, jdrama, interesting methods etc. etc. anything that's related to reading/listening. I currently spend ~2.5 hours/day, would love to at least double it. Thanks !

I recommend a subs2srs deck. Make it yourself from anime you enjoy. It will improve your listening, reading, and vocabulary - and handily, it will be words that tend to show up in anime/related media, which sounds like it would be useful for you. Cards might look like this.

Buy some books. A (perhaps not particularly, but whatever) wise man once wrote; 'Before you can pwn books, you must first own books'. A thread about these happening right now: http://forum.koohii.com/thread-13732.html
But then, don't focus too much on reading for the moment - dip in and out and see what you can do. After a month more of Anki, things that look impossible now may start looking possible. Understanding Yotsuba shouldn't take too long if you build up vocabulary and a feel for Japanese, and Anki is the most brutally effective way of doing that. Focus more on reading when you can actually read - if you choose the right reading material it shouldn't be too far away.

Don't stress about kanji - everything you can conceivably read at the moment has furigana, and you can fake your way through for a very long time before actually having to focus on them (though, there is a wall). Some people will tell you that this is arsebackwards, and they might be right, but I've never been convinced and am still mostly faking through.

You might also want to look into the 'listening/reading' method - I've never used it but it sounds fairly relevant to your interests.

Just go do Nayr's core 5k deck which I just finished bugfixing. It has listening comprehension and sentence reading cards. You will learn kanji from vocabulary or whatever. If you're not going to study words that way you should use epwing2anki or rikaisama to auto generate vocabulary flashcards from stuff you read (and thus the best stuff to read is stuff that you can hover over, aka, on the internet or transferred to the internet, in the case of novel textfiles etc.)

You could also just do the core 10k like you've been doing and use nayr's core 5k for listening (so it's less cheating and you're less likely to guess sentence meanings despite missing some words by ear due to having studied the sentence visually previously).

As for Yotsubato, someone made some anki decks for it. You can get them for free on "living japanese" (or some such name). I like to keep my vocab cards in a single format so I just extracted the vocab from that and added it to my main vocab recognition deck.

What I would recommend is pre-learning the vocabulary for the particular story you plan to read and then read it.  If you plan to watch an anime episode, pre-learn the vocabulary for that.  Same thing for songs that you might want to listen to.  If the word is kanji in the story, learn the kanji version.  If it's hiragana, learn the hiragana version.  If the story is long, maybe chunk it into several pages at a time.

I just started to do things this way, and it's much more enjoyable than learning words from a frequency list that you may or may not run into for a long while.  It's much more enjoyable and effective to learn a word and then read it in the context of a full work immediately.

There are many ways to create a custom vocab list.   What I've been doing is using the text glossing function of jdic and clicking ignore repeated words.  Then I'll paste the output into a text editor and clean up the text for input into anki.  If you know regex, you can clean up a list fairly quickly.  I wrote a quick and dirty python script that automates that whole process but it only works on a mac at the moment.  If you have a mac and know something about python, I can send it to you.

Thanks everyone ! I will try to incorporate as many suggestions as possible into my daily routine. So excited :}

@yogert909 unfortunately I do not have a mac, but with the power of google I will figure something out, thanks a bunch.

Your thread title reminds me of this catchy tune lol  

Anyways, on topic. As far as having "too much free time" and wanting to utilize it, just increased your vocab comp  whether by Core/Nayr/etc. If you do make your own deck, it is best to use the sources you delve into most like the anime and dramas you watch. You can do this by acquiring the subtitle files and putting through a word/kanji/difficulty frequency tool like cb's Japanese Text Analysis Tool. With that, you can prioritize which words you want to learn with this frequency tool. An alternative to yogert909's method which works on PC (and mac too I believe).

Erin's challenge is a good start. It is a mini drama/manga series (depending on how you want to go through each lesson) but I suggest doing both. Whichever order you want to do is fine. Then for manga reading, there is the Japanese in Anime & Manga site which is an interactive manga with audio, translations and cultural notes. Delvin language is a fun way to test your listening skills using real Japanese media clips (anime/drama/movies/commercials) which has N5-N1 levels.

So I decided to keep this thread as my blog / check my progress / maybe inspire those who're just getting into japanese ( I sure did search A LOT for these kinds of blogs when I just started out).

Been studying for ~2-4 hours/day, mostly on anki, though now I'm kinda getting more into the native materials.

My hiragana and katakana reading speed increased significantly, I can basically read hiragana at near english level. I got over the 'fear' of kanji and now I started appreciating them. You can see in my first post, a month ago I hated RTK. You know what ? I still do. I absolutely despise rtk. Tried doing it, couldn't even last half a week. But seeing SO MUCH japanese content that I can't read just because of kanji really pushed me into finding a way to somehow learn them. I found a website where it lists N5 N4 N3 N2 N1 Kanji with meanings (not some bullcrap keywoards like RTK, where if you're not native at english you don't understand 1/3 of them...) and imported each level into anki. N5-N2 has like 1000 kanji and then N1 - another ~1200. I only do recognition cards, don't write them out, only create a little fun thought about the kanji to help me remember it. So far I've 'learned' over 300 of them (currently at N3 level) and I plan to sprint through all the kanji up to level N1. I will probably start doing around 10/day of N1 ones. Anyway, learning kanji meanings helped me A TON, I started recognizing kanji that looked like squiggles before. Awesome feeling :}

I went through:
Core 2k
Both volumes of Yotsubato reading pack
A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar anki deck

All in all ~4000 cards.
You may think how did I manage that much in a month ? Well, I kinda cheated. I had both the question and the answer on the front and back cards, and I always pressed 'good' no matter I knew the card or not. I tried doing decks the normal way but couldn't last long due to the frustration. Forcing your brain to memorise stuff it doesn't find useful is REALLY REALLY painful so I just went through all the decks and let my brain remember stuff it finds useful/fun. There are many many words that you won't learn until later on so why bother with them when you can skip them and learn 10 new words that are actually useful at the current time. And you know what ? Now that I've finished them I find them really really easy, I basically know 80%+ of the cards, so I consider that as a success.

I read 1 and a half volumes of yotsubato and I obviously burned out due to how boring and easy it was (looking at my first post I find it awesome that something I considered unreadable now is pretty easy). So I started reading Claymore, putting EVERY SINGLE unknown word in my anki deck. So far, after 120 pages I found 210 new words. Most of them are all kinds of fighting words like entrails, one-handed, sword, predator, murder etc. etc. I mean, yeah, it's not the most useful vocabulary, but I find it fun and I'm not planning to talk to anyone in japanese anytime soon, manga is kinda my ultimate goal so I guess I'm going on the right path.

I made a deck of ~1100 most frequent words in Kino no Tabi 1-9vol. novels which I plan on starting soon, started Death Note Subs2srs and will soon start on some gaming vocabulary which I have waiting for me (~600 total words). Oh and I deleted those 3 decks (core2k, grammar and yotsubato) today due to the reviews being too big of a time investment for a small return. My current anki looks like this :


That's basically my progress in a month, maybe I missed something but for the most part I think I covered everything. Now that I read my first post and compare it to this it feels like I've achieved quite a lot, which is sooo awesome and I'm looking forward to further studying
My goal for the next month is to go through the death note deck which is ~7500 cards (again, only 'good' + reviews), finish N5-N2 kanji and read at least a few volumes of Claymore if I don't get bored (so far it's fun, I've also seen the anime). I will update this thread after a month or so if I don't forget it.

(2016-06-16, 7:37 am)Gutsz Wrote: Oh and I deleted those 3 decks (core2k, grammar and yotsubato) today due to the reviews being too big of a time 

Well that's an interesting choice.

(2016-06-16, 7:53 am)cracky Wrote:

(2016-06-16, 7:37 am)Gutsz Wrote: Oh and I deleted those 3 decks (core2k, grammar and yotsubato) today due to the reviews being too big of a time 

Well that's an interesting choice.

Well, I did reviews for like 2weeks, I thought I no longer had any use in them because the only words I didn't know were stuff I won't need in the foreseeable future, so I would rather concentrate on what I enjoy [manga]. I will encounter the same basic words in manga so it kinda counts as reviewing.

Maybe I did something horrible, I don't know, I still have the copies with scheduling information so I can revert any time.

(2016-06-16, 8:02 am)Gutsz Wrote:

(2016-06-16, 7:53 am)cracky Wrote:

(2016-06-16, 7:37 am)Gutsz Wrote: Oh and I deleted those 3 decks (core2k, grammar and yotsubato) today due to the reviews being too big of a time 

Well that's an interesting choice.

Well, I did reviews for like 2weeks, I thought I no longer had any use in them because the only words I didn't know were stuff I won't need in the foreseeable future, so I would rather concentrate on what I enjoy [manga]. I will encounter the same basic words in manga so it kinda counts as reviewing.

Maybe I did something horrible, I don't know, I still have the copies with scheduling information so I can revert any time.

Very common vocab like core2k you will get enough exposure from immersing in Japanese, but for intermediate/advanced vocab and grammar, I would recommend you keep doing reviews. Remembering something you saw from a week or two ago is much easier than remembering something you saw a month or longer ago--and of course less frequently used vocab will be seen less frequently. After your summer break, it would be pretty painful to forget most of what you learned here.

今回は名台詞「僕は新世界の神になる」の英語版を紹介しましょう。
http://animemeigen.com/death_note/

Quote:Forcing your brain to memorise stuff it doesn't find useful is REALLY REALLY painful so I just went through all the decks and let my brain remember stuff it finds useful/fun.

It is great to have fun while learning , and to learn while having fun.
がんばって～

(2016-06-16, 10:28 am)yukamina Wrote: Very common vocab like core2k you will get enough exposure from immersing in Japanese, but for intermediate/advanced vocab and grammar, I would recommend you keep doing reviews. Remembering something you saw from a week or two ago is much easier than remembering something you saw a month or longer ago--and of course less frequently used vocab will be seen less frequently. After your summer break, it would be pretty painful to forget most of what you learned here.

I will definitely keep reviewing everything I mine out of native materials because it's fun and the words are actually meaningful to me unlike decks like core2k where it's just boring textbook-ish sentences and doing the reviews is as fun as staring at a wall. I don't think I'm going to start any intermediate/advanced vocab/grammar pre-made decks as I find them really painful and boring to get through, in my opinion it's just not worh the effort to get those extra few % of knowledge when you can actually do something fun and learn almost as much [manga, novels, subs2srs, anime, drama etc.]. Others may find that they learn better through premade decks or they are frustrated when they can't understand native material, that's ok, everyone eventually finds their own methods, for example, apart from school english education (which is not that great), I've never ever studied english, I just read and listened, it was fun and I absorbed the language naturally. 

Oh and it's not like I'm going to stop studying after the summer break, I will probably 'study' (read and listen) even more because it will actually be more fun than doing any other of my hobbies. Even though it will be the last year of school, there will be exams and whatnot, I don't think my interest in japanese will fade away.

I think you're probably making it harder for yourself but I mean hey study how you want to.  

So for some actual possibly useful input to the thread, I'd try to make sure your custom cards can follow as many rules of this as you can:
https://www.supermemo.com/en/articles/20rules

I also find custom cards work better if points you're reviewing don't share the same image.  If you're just doing recognition then you probably don't need to worry about that.

I actually think you are doing just fine if you are enjoying reading and watching.  Provided you are understanding most of what you are reading and watching, that's the gold standard there.  I firmly believe the best way to practice a skill is to practice the actual thing most of the time - at least in beginner/intermediate levels.  When you get more advanced, unknown words will come around less frequently, so studying the words and grammar you don't know would probably be a better use of your time.   I'm kind of wishing I didn't spend as much time on core and rtk as I did.  Had I just waded into native material the way you are, I am pretty sure I would be much further along than I am now.

(2016-06-16, 9:12 pm)yogert909 Wrote: I actually think you are doing just fine if you are enjoying reading and watching.  Provided you are understanding most of what you are reading and watching, that's the gold standard there.  I firmly believe the best way to practice a skill is to practice the actual thing most of the time - at least in beginner/intermediate levels.  When you get more advanced, unknown words will come around less frequently, so studying the words and grammar you don't know would probably be a better use of your time.   I'm kind of wishing I didn't spend as much time on core and rtk as I did.  Had I just waded into native material the way you are, I am pretty sure I would be much further along than I am now.

Would you really? Because RTK and Core are great tools.

RTK allows you to pick up words a lot more quickly once you get past beginner level. Core is just fairly handy in general as it allows you to work on very common/basic vocabulary and kanji readings at a quicker pace (not to mention some new words become trivial to learn if you've seen the readings before). Otherwise, you'd be trying to figure out the shape of kanji and making flashcards all day long, since you'd be looking up almost everything that comes up anyway.

On the other hand, getting into native material too early can be very demotivating. In fact, I've given up on reading Planetarian in Japanese before the anime adaptation comes out, simply because ITH and VNR didn't work. Looking up every single new word would be a pain because it's not as easy as I initially thought, not to mention incredibly time consuming.

Yesterday, I started reading 星織ユメミライ and it's so much more efficient and enjoyable. Definitely a better call. Maybe I'll read Planetarian in English and check it out once again a little later. Although given how hard it'd to read it, I'll probably start reading 穢翼のユースティア as soon as I'm done with the route I want to play in 星織ユメミライ.

Thanks everyone for the feedback :} Oh and can someone recommend me any REALLY easy manga/novels which don't have furigana ? Would be fun to get into after a month or so.

(2016-06-16, 10:34 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: Although given how hard it'd to read it, I'll probably start reading 穢翼のユースティア as soon as I'm done with the route I want to play in 星織ユメミライ.

That's what I started on as a complete beginner! (well, after two weeks of study). I read a single chapter in (and at) about the same time I did RTK1. Then all the keigo started* and much of the basic vocabulary I'd picked up became useless so I switched to いろとりどりのセカイ.

*In chapter 3, that is. I'd started at the end of the English patch.

An HD edition (1280x960) of Planetarian is going to be released at the end of July, you might want to wait for that anyway. Not to mention it'll have a modern engine that VNR shouldn't have any trouble hooking into.

Really easy manga/novel without furigana? Bit of a hard ask.
There are adult versions of きまぐれロボット that presumably don't have furigana.
かみちゅ！ is probably the easiest manga I've read with minimal furigana - only two volumes though.

Why don't you want furigana though? Furigana is great. I don't think there's any reason to avoid it - the more you read the less you'll need it.

(2016-06-17, 6:09 am)Aikynaro Wrote: Really easy manga/novel without furigana? Bit of a hard ask.
There are adult versions of きまぐれロボット that presumably don't have furigana.
かみちゅ！ is probably the easiest manga I've read with minimal furigana - only two volumes though.

Why don't you want furigana though? Furigana is great. I don't think there's any reason to avoid it - the more you read the less you'll need it.

For example, yotsubato is way easier than let's say One Piece, even though they both have furigana, I think it should be similar with kanji-only manga, there are probably both easy and hard ones. So I want something on the easy side.

I will look into the ones you listed :-}

The problem with furigana is that when I read I usually read furigana and don't even look at the kanji so I don't think I will ever learn them, I need to brute force myself into reading kanji-only material and look up every second kanji if needed, I think that's the only way to learn them and I think I will switch right to furiganaless manga after 27 volumes of Claymore.

I can relate to not being fond of furigana, mostly because when they show up I tend to read them instead of the kanji below, and with new words that makes remembering the kanji form of words difficult.

(2016-06-17, 4:30 am)Vempele Wrote:

(2016-06-16, 10:34 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: Although given how hard it'd to read it, I'll probably start reading 穢翼のユースティア as soon as I'm done with the route I want to play in 星織ユメミライ.

That's what I started on as a complete beginner! (well, after two weeks of study). I read a single chapter in (and at) about the same time I did RTK1. Then all the keigo started* and much of the basic vocabulary I'd picked up became useless so I switched to いろとりどりのセカイ.

*In chapter 3, that is. I'd started at the end of the English patch.

An HD edition (1280x960) of Planetarian is going to be released at the end of July, you might want to wait for that anyway. Not to mention it'll have a modern engine that VNR shouldn't have any trouble hooking into.

Cool! Yeah, I've read that you'll know 敬語 by the end of ユースティア, whether you want it or not (lol). According to what I've read, it's a good way to practice N2 grammar or at least learn it along the way, because most of it appears in the story.
It also seems to by a little tricky at first with the amount of vocabulary because of the setting, but on the other hand the sentences are kind of easy to follow in general.

The best part is - in addition to all things mentioned above - how interesting the setting and story seems to be. I've only read great things about it in reviews. I can't imagine myself reading it after 2 weeks of study while doing RTK at the same time though! (been studying for 9 months, trying to get most of the basic/intermediate grammar and vocab out of the way)

I've heard about this new version, but I already have the old version on Steam. I just thought that since I already have it, I might as well read it before the anime starts airing. If it weren't so time consuming I wouldn't mind. But at the same time, it's super short (shorter than 沙耶の唄 apparently) so maybeee I'll just read it in English and read it again in Japanese if it's easy enough by the time I feel like giving it another try.

Not sure if I will though, because 穢翼のユースティア, バルドスカイ, and 極限脱出 刻のジレンマ will definitely take ages to read. Especially バルドスカイ, which hopefully won't be too hard to read after ユースティア. Not sure if I'll be able to read 刻のジレンマ in Japanese though. I guess it'll depend on how much vocabulary in it I'll be able to recognize by the end of this month. It would be nice if ITH or VNR worked with it, but I'm not counting on it because it looks a lot more like a game now.

(2016-06-16, 10:34 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: On the other hand, getting into native material too early can be very demotivating. In fact, I've given up on reading Planetarian in Japanese before the anime adaptation comes out, simply because ITH and VNR didn't work. Looking up every single new word would be a pain because it's not as easy as I initially thought, not to mention incredibly time consuming.

I dove into native materials early, and drove progress with my own deck. Early on I read things like entries from textbooks, children's stories, NHK News Easy, dual-language posts on Lang-8, etc. I watched simple anime, and read the manga that it was sourced from (in many cases, this is almost as good as having J-subs). 

If I found something that was too hard and I felt it was struggling, I put it in the big, massive "To Read Later" pile. There's no reason to keep plowing through something you can barely understand. At the same time, finding something you can't yet understand isn't a reason to give up on native materials.


The issue I had with pre-made decks is that I had little confidence they were teaching me the words I was interested in learning at that time. I specifically remember encountering a ton of business-related words in a deck, which bored me senseless. And I'm someone who now reads Japanese news every day for kicks! But I couldn't read a standard newspaper at that time, so I had no comprehensible materials around to reinforce their meaning in context. 

I didn't much mind the time consumed by lookups. Besides, reading online with Rikaisama made lookups and Anki import ridiculously simple.

I'm not saying Core etc. aren't useful. If they work for you, keep on keepin' on. And there are pitfalls with the DIY approach. Outside of time, the largest pitfall I've found is attempting to learn complex words before simpler, more common words. This is something I've learned to balance out with references to frequency lists and tools like yourei.jp. Without such care, you can find yourself attempting to cram 跳梁跋扈 before 扱う.

As for which way is "better", it's like the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop...the world may never know.

(2016-06-16, 10:34 pm)FlameseeK Wrote:

(2016-06-16, 9:12 pm)yogert909 Wrote: I actually think you are doing just fine if you are enjoying reading and watching.  Provided you are understanding most of what you are reading and watching, that's the gold standard there.  I firmly believe the best way to practice a skill is to practice the actual thing most of the time - at least in beginner/intermediate levels.  When you get more advanced, unknown words will come around less frequently, so studying the words and grammar you don't know would probably be a better use of your time.   I'm kind of wishing I didn't spend as much time on core and rtk as I did.  Had I just waded into native material the way you are, I am pretty sure I would be much further along than I am now.

Would you really? Because RTK and Core are great tools.

RTK allows you to pick up words a lot more quickly once you get past beginner level. Core is just fairly handy in general as it allows you to work on very common/basic vocabulary and kanji readings at a quicker pace (not to mention some new words become trivial to learn if you've seen the readings before). Otherwise, you'd be trying to figure out the shape of kanji and making flashcards all day long, since you'd be looking up almost everything that comes up anyway.

On the other hand, getting into native material too early can be very demotivating. In fact, I've given up on reading Planetarian in Japanese before the anime adaptation comes out, simply because ITH and VNR didn't work. Looking up every single new word would be a pain because it's not as easy as I initially thought, not to mention incredibly time consuming.

Yesterday, I started reading 星織ユメミライ and it's so much more efficient and enjoyable. Definitely a better call. Maybe I'll read Planetarian in English and check it out once again a little later. Although given how hard it'd to read it, I'll probably start reading 穢翼のユースティア as soon as I'm done with the route I want to play in 星織ユメミライ.

Absolutely.  If I had made my own decks targeted towards the vocabulary and kanji that I expected to encounter in the next few weeks, I absolutely believe I would be much better off than I am now after years of studying core and RTK.   The problem with core and rtk is that there are a lot of words and kanji that didn't encounter for a long time or haven't encountered and probably won't encounter for months or maybe years.  On the other hand, there are kanji and vocabulary that I encounter all the time that didn't appear in core or rtk.

What I'm doing right now is pre-learning vocabulary for materials that I plan on reading or listening to in the next few days or weeks.  This is effectively similar to studying core and rtk, with the added benefit that I will encounter every word and kanji very soon in a context larger than a single sentence, further cementing the meaning in my head.  There are all kinds of other more subtle benefits as well such as the motivation I get from completely understanding entire conversations and knowing that I absolutely know every word in an article I am reading.  Knowing that I know every word encourages me to search my mind much harder for the meaning because I am certain the it's not a word I've never seen.  It's also simply more enjoyable doing it this way.

I've done a bit of analysis on core and rtk and even after finishing 6k words, in most any article or story, there are still large amounts(30-70%) of words and kanji that you will have to look up.  Then there are words and kanji that appear in core and/or rtk that, depending on what you are reading, you won't encounter for perhaps years.  Instead of learning thousands of words that you may eventually use someday, why not simply study the words and kanji you intend on using immediately?

(2016-06-16, 10:34 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: On the other hand, getting into native material too early can be very demotivating. In fact, I've given up on reading Planetarian in Japanese before the anime adaptation comes out, simply because ITH and VNR didn't work. Looking up every single new word would be a pain because it's not as easy as I initially thought, not to mention incredibly time consuming.

Just to be clear, I'm not looking up words as I'm reading. I am running text through a glosser and filtering the words that aren't already in my deck. Once I've done a few reps of each word, I'll read the article or listen or whatever. For longer works, I would break it into small chunks so that I'm not pre-learning too far ahead.

(2016-06-17, 4:34 pm)yogert909 Wrote: Absolutely.  If I had made my own decks targeted towards the vocabulary and kanji that I expected to encounter in the next few weeks, I absolutely believe I would be much better off than I am now after years of studying core and RTK.  The problem with core and rtk is that there are a lot of words and kanji that didn't encounter for a long time or haven't encountered and probably won't encounter for months or maybe years.  On the other hand, there are kanji and vocabulary that I encounter all the time that didn't appear in core or rtk.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I think I can clearly see where we differ in our approaches now. While you've been studying for years and mostly working on "technical" stuff like kanji and whatnot for a long time, I've only been studying for only 9 months. Despite the short time studying the language, I've been working at an abnormal pace. I'm one of those people who'd think it's normal to make a thread asking whether it's possible to pass N2-N1 in a single year (from 0). And based on my experience so far, I think N2 is definitely doable if you're able to study like a machine with that goal in mind. But I digress.

From the start, my goal was to get most of the "basics" out of the way asap and expand my comfort zone so that native material becomes more enjoyable. This is important to me, because I have very little tolerance towards ambiguity. I have this urge to look up everything I don't know and even double check a lot of the stuff I know just in case.

The thing is, I feel there's a huge difference between getting started with native material after "some" cramming in less than a year, and slowly making your way through the same sort of "technical", yet lifeless material without getting much more input anytime soon. The sooner you reinforce all this knowledge you've acquired, the more useful I feel it's going to be. Otherwise, it's as if you were merely acquiring potential knowledge, because it's not natural to cement it with Anki alone. That's why I feel ramping up the amount of input you get when it feels comfortable is an important step as well.

(2016-06-17, 8:39 pm)FlameseeK Wrote:

(2016-06-17, 4:34 pm)yogert909 Wrote: Absolutely.  If I had made my own decks targeted towards the vocabulary and kanji that I expected to encounter in the next few weeks, I absolutely believe I would be much better off than I am now after years of studying core and RTK.  The problem with core and rtk is that there are a lot of words and kanji that didn't encounter for a long time or haven't encountered and probably won't encounter for months or maybe years.  On the other hand, there are kanji and vocabulary that I encounter all the time that didn't appear in core or rtk.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I think I can clearly see where we differ in our approaches now. While you've been studying for years and mostly working on "technical" stuff like kanji and whatnot for a long time, I've only been studying for only 9 months. Despite the short time studying the language, I've been working at an abnormal pace. I'm one of those people who'd think it's normal to make a thread asking whether it's possible to pass N2-N1 in a single year (from 0). And based on my experience so far, I think N2 is definitely doable if you're able to study like a machine with that goal in mind. But I digress.

From the start, my goal was to get most of the "basics" out of the way asap and expand my comfort zone so that native material becomes more enjoyable. This is important to me, because I have very little tolerance towards ambiguity. I have this urge to look up everything I don't know and even double check a lot of the stuff I know just in case.

The thing is, I feel there's a huge difference between getting started with native material after "some" cramming in less than a year, and slowly making your way through the same sort of "technical", yet lifeless material without getting much more input anytime soon. The sooner you reinforce all this knowledge you've acquired, the more useful I feel it's going to be. Otherwise, it's as if you were merely acquiring potential knowledge, because it's not natural to cement it with Anki alone. That's why I feel ramping up the amount of input you get when it feels comfortable is an important step as well.

Hmm, interesting. I took the third approach - I went through a basic Japanese text, and went straight into native materials (manga, all with furigana because i didn't have enough kanji for anything else). I plodded on for years with that with verrrry slow progress and various conventional forms of learning (paper flashcards, writing kanji as they appear in O'Neil's, etc.) before I finally discovered Anki and RTK.

Coming back around to getting a solid core (so to speak) crammed in, I only did Core3k... I recall looking at Core10k and just seeing a lot of totally unfamiliar and not particularly useful looking words. With the amount of manga I had stumbled through with a dictionary I figured even that shouldn't be the case. (There's a difference between a word you've seen but don't 'know' and a totally unfamiliar word, after all.) On that personal basis as well as other's reports I've never really seen the merit in pre-loading all of Core10k.

I mean, it's fine if you're motivated and enjoying it, those words will come in handy -someday-. It's just that after the first few thousand, you can't really say anything is 'Core'. It depends on the material you intend to approach. I far preferred to start adding words from the wild to my study regimen after just a few thousand 'core' words.

I feel like Kanji are another case. The only Kanji in RTK that are really 'unnecessary' are the tree types (I happen to like trees and knowing their names so I don't mind personally). The rest of the 'obscure' kanji that I've seldom seen in the wild are building blocks for other characters so fit in a kind of 'might as well' slot ...and those end up even being in RTK Lite for the reason of being building blocks! (I'm going through RTK Lite at an incredibly slow pace as I convert my RTK deck from English keywords to Japanese keywords. I just can't review with English keywords anymore, I keep confusing synonyms and generally getting into a muddle mixing up English glosses for various Japanese words with keywords. Percentage-wise it's not 'really' a problem, but motivation-wise I can't do it. Well, that was a major digression in these parentheses.)

TL,DR: Moderation is important in all things, even Japanese learning strategies.