I realize Koohii focuses on kanji and reading more, but I wanted to ask around a bit about conversation.

Conversation (mainly speaking) is my least strong aspect of Japanese.

Bio: 26 female, Canadian, 5 years into Japanese study (3 years of shitty university classes, finished RTK1 and partially RTK2 pronunciations, never did a JLPT but probably N3-ish level). living in Japan for 1.5 years, working on JET at a Japanese elementary school where maybe 3 teachers are able to sustain a basic English conversation (the rest are... well, weak in English to say the least). Dating a Japanese guy for 10 months (though his English is really great).

So... how can my Japanese conversation be so shit still?? Listening is fine, but actually speaking...

Short answer: It's bad because I don't try speaking Japanese, and don't study grammar enough, and hang out with my foreigner friends too much.

So... why don't I try speaking more Japanese?

Yea, there's the usual "no confidence", "fear of failure/making a fool of myself" etc

But lately there's something else... I don't like conversation. Period. In any language. And maybe I also don't like people, more like, I just don't care that deeply about most people. They're nice and all, but.

Again, there are elements of "how do I approach someone to speak? when is the conversation over?" kind of awkwardness that is normal low-confidence due to not being competent. (also no one expressly told me about あいづち （相槌） until literally I read about it 5 months ago... 5 years into my Japanese language journey and over a year in Japan. thanks a freaking lot ugh.) So cultural norms mixed into that awkwardness as well.

However back to my point - I don't like conversations with people, in English or Japanese.

And this leads me into issues beyond language learning - into personality, self-worth / self-esteem and psychological issues.


I began to notice buried below the surface, were anxiety and thoughts of self-worthlessness, and a bitterness for people.

I'll elaborate: in English or Japanese, as I start engaging in "chit chat", if I really listen to my negative thoughts below the surface, I'm thinking: "This is boring. You're boring and more than that I'm boring. I don't want to talk about myself, I haven't done anything interesting. You haven't either. I could ask about your family but then what, listen to you go on about it, and then I'll forget it likely. I hate politics and sports and even anime lately. It's just a strain to discuss mundane things."

Whenever I get the opportunity to have a conversation, I find an alarm going off in me that says "Stop it. End it. Escape this now, the pointlessness of it is weighing me down into a lonely depressed state even further." and instead of trying to hold and sustain a conversation, I find myself slipping out of it with fake friendly smiles as soon as possible.

I love the Japanese language, because it's a gateway to a world different way of thinking and thousands of new stories. I love Japanese culture, I love the stories Japanese people have brought to the world -- via myths, novels, manga, animation, and more. I love so much about Japan.

So I can read, and I can listen, and I can write to an extent.

But how will I ever get good at speaking, if I don't want to speak, and don't want to engage with people?

It's basically a motivation problem, I guess. I want to read and listen well, definitely, but do I really want to speak?

I guess the basic answer is Imma head to therapy haha. Otherwise, I just need to realize that I do WANT to live in Japan, and I do want to function here, so rather than a goal of "speaking heartful, witty, fluent Japanese" I can at least make my speaking goal "to be competent enough to easily work with others." which would reduce communication stress at least.

Your thoughts about conversation/speaking, your experiences and your ideas about my problem?

BONUS THOUGHTS: (which you can totally tldr)

- I am the sort who is more of a visual learning and liking to categorize information visually. With a good base in kanji, I find it so much easier to learn new words and to visualize said words as people say them, or to ask for clarification when someone teaches me a new word verbally, by asking like "Oh is that word written with the 書 from 辞書?" This helps my style of conversation a little, I think. Kanji can be a nice tool to aid in learning new words mid-conversation.

- I was hoping Khatz's post here at AJATT would answer my question, its the perfect title, but actually this title doesn't fit the point of his post very well haha. His "Speaking: You Don’t Have A Linguistic Problem, You Have A Humanity Problem" should actually have been titled "Speaking: You Don't Have A Linguistic Problem, You have an Over-estimation Problem"

[Zgarbas]

Sounds like Japanese has absolutely nothing to do with your problem.

In the end I guess the question is what do you treasure more, your introverted people-avoiding self, or your Japanese speaking skills? Do you actually need the Japanese speaking skills for anything? If not, then there you go; just embrace your introverted self and stop worrying about it. If you do need those speaking skills, then you should probably work on those people skills.

What strikes me as weird is that you would choose a job that involves constant interaction with people, when it is something that you explicitly dislike; maybe consider a different career?

(2016-03-18, 1:35 am)Zgarbas Wrote: Sounds like Japanese has absolutely nothing to do with your problem.

In the end I guess the question is what do you treasure more, your introverted people-avoiding self, or your Japanese speaking skills? Do you actually need the Japanese speaking skills for anything? If not, then there you go; just embrace your introverted self and stop worrying about it. If you do need those speaking skills, then you should probably work on those people skills.

What strikes me as weird is that you would choose a job that involves constant interaction with people, when it is something that you explicitly dislike; maybe consider a different career?

Thanks for your reply, you fleshed out my own thoughts a bit more.

Its a little broad and not related to Japanese language learning specifically, but for language learning in general I think it's related, in the fact that socialization and personality are underlying each language learners ability/aptitude/motivation.

Before I was thinking about this problem and the will to improve one's conversation, I was thinking a lot about personality and how that makes conversation easier for some people or learning to read or write easier for some people.

Does anyone know strategies/related books/related articles for language learning (conversation specifically) that focus on personality/learning styles more?

As for your question, I grew a butt-tonne by moving to Japan and have been opening up to learn more about myself, so I guess this is all more recent revelations (and JET program teaching doesnt last forever, haha).

If your life is boring, then maybe find a way to make it interesting.^-^ Also, I find that most people have at least one interesting thing which they're really passionate about. Usually the fastest way to find it is to ask about hobbies & interests.

Also, I agree with Zgarbas, ask yourself whether speaking Japanese is that important to you. It may not be, and then you don't need to worry.