(2015-12-20, 6:09 pm)pm215 Wrote: I guess it depends whether the underlying question is "supposing I'm this capable in Japanese, what level of JLPT would I be able to pass without having to prepare for it particularly?", or "if I've passed JLPT level X then what does that imply about my general competence in  the language?". I think I'd agree with the benchmarks for the first question, but not for the second.

The JLPT has published a few things on this. I have found the following helpful.

 Official JLPT Can-do List

Summary of Linguistic Competence Required for Each Level 

I always thought that actual actual language proficiency, and language exams go hand in hand. If you pass a high-level exam, you should be able to get by (at least). in that language in a native environment. JLPT is tricky in this aspect, since it has no production part (oral, writing), but I think that this only applies to people who are not good at production to begin with. I would think that most people should have no problem with production, even if it's not tested. The actual capability might be lower than the tested skills, but at least the JLPT works in this respect: If you've passed, let's say N1, you should be able to speak/write at least on a N3 level, even if it was never officially tested. Just my 2 cents.

Ooh, those "can-do" lists based on actual surveys of people who passed the various levels are particularly interesting. They about match up with my general personal impressions about my own progress, I think.

So I just got yotsubato #1 from the library and have been having a blast with it. I literally lol when I read some of it. It turns out that my library has the whole series, in Japanaese with no translations, so I should be able to get thru the whole series. Although oddly they have like only 1 copy of some of the books but like 50 of the other ones.

Lately I've been studying twice a day. In the mornings I go thru anki, and in the afternoon I've been taking a break to read thru some yotsuba. Anki takes me < 30 minutes/day recently, so it hasn't been too bad.

Now that I think about it, I should really also throw in some fluentu in the afternoons. but honestly, I've been getting such a kick out of following yotsuba's adventures that fluentu might just have to wait a while.

Hey there! I'm planning to take the JLPT N3 next July, hope I can pass it. Right now, I'm quite optimistic about passing it, but then I'm that way about basically everything, so who knows 

I'll be coming back with a more detailed post (I'm moving out in a couple of days), but in a nutshell, this is what I plan to do until the test date:
- Finish Genki II (only 3 lessons)
- Review past vocab and kanji using e.g. Anki (I feel my grammar is pretty solid, so I won't be focusing on that)
- Start Tobira, try to do a chapter per week (we'll see how that goes)
- Boost my LISTENING skills (I'm really bad) by watching dramas, anime, etc.
- Eventually go through some drill books as the test date is approaching
- Kanji... still thinking about it, I'll make up my mind about it next week though

Pretty heavy plan, but I actually can study full-time until April, so I'll try to make the best of my free time!
Good luck, everybody! 良いお年を!

(2015-12-25, 12:11 pm)devildanette Wrote: Hey there! I'm planning to take the JLPT N3 next July, hope I can pass it. Right now, I'm quite optimistic about passing it, but then I'm that way about basically everything, so who knows 

I'll be coming back with a more detailed post (I'm moving out in a couple of days), but in a nutshell, this is what I plan to do until the test date:
- Finish Genki II (only 3 lessons)
- Review past vocab and kanji using e.g. Anki (I feel my grammar is pretty solid, so I won't be focusing on that)
- Start Tobira, try to do a chapter per week (we'll see how that goes)
- Boost my LISTENING skills (I'm really bad) by watching dramas, anime, etc.
- Eventually go through some drill books as the test date is approaching
- Kanji... still thinking about it, I'll make up my mind about it next week though

Pretty heavy plan, but I actually can study full-time until April, so I'll try to make the best of my free time!
Good luck, everybody! 良いお年を!

Welcome!

Found an N3 listening quiz website. Not only can you take quizzes online, but you can download the mp3 and transcript for offline use!

http://nihongo.hum.tmu.ac.jp/mic-j/listen3q/index.html

I actually found that quiz site at mic-J AV Resources for Japanese Language Instruction @ Tokyo Metropolitan University website which contains more listening resources.

I wanted something similar to  http://mykikitori.com/ that was N3 level. I'm not ready for it yet but I think I will tackle this site once I finish mykikitori.

Hi guys,

My original plan was to have this thread and a separate 2016 Anki JLPT Challenge thread. But this thread took off and no one replied to that thread, so I think it's better for me to combine the two. Here are my anki stats the day after I took the December 2015 JLPT N3 exam:

December 7, 2015 (the day after the exam):
Mature grammar cards: 476
Mature Kanji cards: 684
Mature vocab cards: 4,500 (such an even number!)

Total mature cards: 5,660

Last year occasionally posting my anki stats, and recording the delta for the month and year, helped me keep up my motivation to do anki every day. A lot of times it felt like I was just generating too many leeches, wasn't adding "enough" cards, etc. But then I would post my stats, note the delta, and be like "wow, anki just works on its own!" and continue on my merry way. I wanted to keep that up this year as well.

I just added a google alert to remind me to post on this the first Sunday of each month.

I'm curious how you guys use Anki to review grammar. I've never used it for grammar before, but would like to in preparation for the N3 next year.

I'm thinking about using cloze-delete cards, which I never really got into before due to the amount of time it takes to create a single card.

I haven't started grammar study yet for next year, but have been playing around with different card layouts. This is an example of what I've got so far. A card for showing how the passive form is used with intransitive verbs:

Front Wrote:雨[助詞][降る]、服がぬれてしまった。
It rained and my clothes got wet.

Back Wrote:雨に降られて、服がぬれてしまった。
It rained and my clothes got wet.
自動詞＋受身形
日本語総まとめN3　p.14

How about you? What do your grammar cards look like?

(2015-12-27, 8:54 pm)トリピー♫ Wrote:

Front Wrote:雨[助詞][降る]、服がぬれてしまった。
It rained and my clothes got wet.

Back Wrote:雨に降られて、服がぬれてしまった。
It rained and my clothes got wet.
自動詞＋受身形
日本語総まとめN3　p.14

How about you? What do your grammar cards look like?

But that card could be answered other ways,
雨が降って、服がぬれてしまった at least.

If you include the に in the question, it's less ambiguous, maybe completely unambiguous. Including the に also follows the 'test one element at a time' guideline for good cards. You could have a card,
雨（助詞）降られて、服がぬれてしまった and another one 雨に（降る）、服がぬれてしまった

I never really did cards like that personally, although I did for awhile make a point of adding vocab cards (with sentences) that exemplified certain grammar points, and of course cards that test various grammatical words.
I have some 'vocab cards' that test things like 'verbてから', as if 'てから' was a vocabulary word. Of course that only tests recognition the way I have it set up, but then again I'm mostly interested in reading and watching shows so recognition is where it's at. For the JLPT recognition is really all you need. I suppose it's theoretically possible you could pass recognition on all the JLPT grammar points and still not be able to fill in the blanks even with the options in front of you but.... it's not likely.

(2015-12-27, 9:55 pm)SomeCallMeChris Wrote: But that card could be answered other ways...

Yeah, that's the problem I've faced with cloze-delete cards in general, and why I've never really found them worth the time. For this particular card, you're probably right that splitting it in two could remove the ambiguity, but there are plenty of other cards for which this could not be done without using horribly contrived example sentences.

And you're right about recognition being all that is really necessary for the JLPT. Perhaps, since that's what I've set as my goal, that should be what I practice. I guess I'm just sick of not ever being able to put my thoughts into words, especially when I know that I know the structure I want to use, but just can't find it it my mind.

Here's the card structure that I've settled on for grammar. I'm sure people have done it better, but here's what I have:

front (2 fields):
kanji: 飲みたいなら、レッスンのとき、コーヒーを飲んでもかまいません。
furigana: (only if I need it, here I don't)

back (2 fields):
English: If you want to drink during the lesson, it's not a problem if you drink coffee.
Grammar point: 〜てもかまいません

So basically, when I do English -> Japanese I see both the sentence and the grammar point to use.

I'm currently trying this shared deck, which is cloze-delete with supposedly enough hints to disambiguate. I've also added a 'notes' field to the back, and when I unsuspend a card I review the grammar point and add a summary to the 'notes' field of key items from my grammar dictionary (info like 'only with limited set of nouns', 'very formal', etc) and check my recall of that when using the card. I've only got five cards into the deck so far though...

(2015-12-23, 3:45 am)Raschaverak Wrote: I always thought that actual actual language proficiency, and language exams go hand in hand. If you pass a high-level exam, you should be able to get by (at least). in that language in a native environment. JLPT is tricky in this aspect, since it has no production part (oral, writing), but I think that this only applies to people who are not good at production to begin with. I would think that most people should have no problem with production, even if it's not tested. The actual capability might be lower than the tested skills, but at least the JLPT works in this respect: If you've passed, let's say N1, you should be able to speak/write at least on a N3 level, even if it was never officially tested. Just my 2 cents.

Quote:actual language proficiency and language exams go hand in hand

I almost feel like you're trolling. If you've ever read people's reviews of JLPT, there is a frequently expressed sentiment that Chinese test takers have an (obviously) unfair advantage on the written part of the exam. Not only that, but people study hard core for exams - memorizing material, only to forget it all right after the exam. Scores come out, people pass N1, but it doesn't mean they have a functional grasp of the language. To me, the test is just a marker. My proficiency is marked by my score, but my score does not encompass all that is my proficiency.

Quote:most people should have no problem with production

Again, if you've ever scoured the internet in a quest to learn "natural Japanese", many people will tell you - you cannot literally translate EN->JP.
JLPT is almost counter intuitive to natural language learning. The test teaches you to memorize thousands of kanji, vocab words, and grammar points. At no time does it teach you how to put things together or differentiate between nuances, things which are invaluable to speaking like a native.

(2015-12-28, 12:43 pm)angelneko Wrote:

(2015-12-23, 3:45 am)Raschaverak Wrote: I always thought that actual actual language proficiency, and language exams go hand in hand. If you pass a high-level exam, you should be able to get by (at least). in that language in a native environment. JLPT is tricky in this aspect, since it has no production part (oral, writing), but I think that this only applies to people who are not good at production to begin with. I would think that most people should have no problem with production, even if it's not tested. The actual capability might be lower than the tested skills, but at least the JLPT works in this respect: If you've passed, let's say N1, you should be able to speak/write at least on a N3 level, even if it was never officially tested. Just my 2 cents.

Quote:actual language proficiency and language exams go hand in hand

I almost feel like you're trolling. If you've ever read people's reviews of JLPT, there is a frequently expressed sentiment that Chinese test takers have an (obviously) unfair advantage on the written part of the exam. Not only that, but people study hard core for exams - memorizing material, only to forget it all right after the exam. Scores come out, people pass N1, but it doesn't mean they have a functional grasp of the language. To me, the test is just a marker. My proficiency is marked by my score, but my score does not encompass all that is my proficiency.

Quote:most people should have no problem with production

Again, if you've ever scoured the internet in a quest to learn "natural Japanese", many people will tell you - you cannot literally translate EN->JP.
JLPT is almost counter intuitive to natural language learning. The test teaches you to memorize thousands of kanji, vocab words, and grammar points. At no time does it teach you how to put things together or differentiate between nuances, things which are invaluable to speaking like a native.

I almost feel like you are trolling by saying that I'm trolling....
First of, no I don't really scour the internet, mostly because I'm busy doing actual work (you know, studying Japanese, ect.) thus I don't have time for that.
Second, I don't really care what other people say in this regard, because: you only find on the internet what you are looking for. If you are looking for people who complain that they cannot speak Japanese even though they've passed N1 or whatever, you will find that, and biasing your own opinion of the matter.

If you have taken and passed ANY JLPT test, then ask yourself: are you unable to speak / write at all? No? Then maybe it's time to focus your efforts and time into actual work, rather than reading useless stuff on the net.
If you passed the test you should be able to speak to some extent as well. There are always exceptions though, but forming an opinion based on exceptions is....not good.

JLPT is the OFFICIAL proficiency test for the Japanese language accredited in Japan (and Japanese companies), as well the other countries. I just don't see the logic, acknowledging something, while knowing it doesn't entirely show what it supposed to? Nah, come on.

Hi guys.

Please, let's keep this thread positive.

I created this thread to help me pass the JLPT N3 in 2016, and provide value to others with the same goal.

I'm a bit worried that with the way it's going it might lead into a heated debate about the merits and limitations of the JLPT. If that's the case, I'd like to suggest creating a separate thread for that.

Thanks.

(2015-12-28, 12:07 am)ariariari Wrote: Here's the card structure that I've settled on for grammar. I'm sure people have done it better, but here's what I have:

front (2 fields):
   kanji: 飲みたいなら、レッスンのとき、コーヒーを飲んでもかまいません。
   furigana: (only if I need it, here I don't)

back (2 fields):
   English: If you want to drink during the lesson, it's not a problem if you drink coffee.
   Grammar point: 〜てもかまいません

So basically, when I do English -> Japanese I see both the sentence and the grammar point to use.

I have a question. How do you know which grammar point you are testing for on the front side? I've never studied grammar on anki before so I'm just trying to understand how this works.

Another attempt.

This one takes an example sentence, splits up the words and randomizes them differently every time you see the card.
The goal is to get them in the right order.
I figure this allows for a semi-production based task that still resembles a JLPT format.

Front Wrote:ぬれて • 降られて • しまった • 服 • 雨 • に • が
It rained and my clothes got wet.

Back Wrote:雨に降られて、服がぬれてしまった。
It rained and my clothes got wet.
自動詞＋受身形
Using the passive voice can denote that the speaker is negatively affected by some event .
日本語総まとめN3　p.14

(2015-12-28, 2:43 pm)RawrPk Wrote:

(2015-12-28, 12:07 am)ariariari Wrote: Here's the card structure that I've settled on for grammar. I'm sure people have done it better, but here's what I have:

front (2 fields):
   kanji: 飲みたいなら、レッスンのとき、コーヒーを飲んでもかまいません。
   furigana: (only if I need it, here I don't)

back (2 fields):
   English: If you want to drink during the lesson, it's not a problem if you drink coffee.
   Grammar point: 〜てもかまいません

So basically, when I do English -> Japanese I see both the sentence and the grammar point to use.

I have a question. How do you know which grammar point you are testing for on the front side? I've never studied grammar on anki before so I'm just trying to understand how this works.

I totally don't mind you asking. To be honest, it took me about 9 months of anki usage until I started using it for grammar. So I'm happy to help someone else with it.

The answer is that I don't. When going from Japanese to English I just treat it as a translation exercise.

(2015-12-28, 2:34 pm)ariariari Wrote: Hi guys.

Please, let's keep this thread positive.

I created this thread to help me pass the JLPT N3 in 2016, and provide value to others with the same goal.

I'm a bit worried that with the way it's going it might lead into a heated debate about the merits and limitations of the JLPT. If that's the case, I'd like to suggest creating a separate thread for that.

Thanks.

Right. So my positive stat for today: I finished 500 kanji cards. Yay! Can't wait to see tomorrow's pile o.O

Hello fellow N3 tacklers! I may have possibly devised a self study plan for myself. Thought I'd share

Vocab: (Anki) Sou matome N3 book and whatever words I encounter outside of the book.

Kanji: (Anki) RTK with Japanese keywords and then once finished, move onto sou matome N3 book.

Reading: Read native media daily! Right now I am starting off with the manga, しろくまカフェ. Also, there is currently a 多読 round so I'm participating in that. Goal is a modest 350 pages but I aim to do more.

Listening: Listen to Pocoyo. I plan to rip the audio from the Youtube episodes and listen to them. 7 episodes/ week and then switch them to newer ones. I also plan to watch more variety shows per friend's suggestion. He told me that listening to material more difficult one level higher will make it easier to adjust to the speed of N3 in comparison. I trust his judgement since he has taken the higher levels and passed. This is my weakest area so I hope my listening skills are up to par with N3 level by December.

Grammar: As I'm a bit rusty, I plan to first review the book 「どんなときどう使う日本語表現文型200 初・中級」the older edition. It covers the old JLPT 4-3 level grammar. Not sure how it gauges to the current JLPT level format though but the newer edition is at N5-N4 so I'm going to assume the older book is more or less the same level. There are 20 chapters so I should be able to move along the book in a decent time. Afterwards I will review the sou matome N3 grammar book.

I'm not sure how I will review the grammar points using Anki. I will experiment for now. I also don't have any anki stats to post. I'll make sure to post it 4 weeks from today

@RawrPk Welcome! It sounds like your in good shape. I'm looking forward to your updates.

Okey-dokey. So we're 1 month after the exam (first Sunday in January), so I'll post my monthly anki stats:

Compared to December 7, 2015 (the day after the exam):
Mature grammar cards: 507 (today) - 476 (12/7) = +31
Mature Kanji cards: 696 (today)  - 684 (12/7) = +12
Mature vocab cards: 4589 (today) - 4,500 (12/7) = +89

Total mature cards: 5,792 (today) -  5,660 (12/7) = +132

Biggest accomplishment of the month was probably really getting into Yotsubato. It's the 2nd manga I've read, and the first one I genuinely enjoyed. I always thought that Manga wasn't really for me, but there you go.

I also made big strides in my remedial grammar book, and vocab. I took it easy for the first few weeks with anki, and then dove into it. The vocab I added this month contained a lot of what I call "out of class" vocab. Next month I hope to post where I am with my kanji and grammar books. I'd still like to finish both of those in the first half of the year.

Oh, I also changed my goal for the N3. Rather than focusing on passing, or specific scores on each parts, I just want to do a lot better than I did last year. I think that if I keep on this path that shouldn't be a problem at all.

(2016-01-02, 2:58 pm)RawrPk Wrote: Also, there is currently a 多読 round so I'm participating in that. Goal is a modest 350 pages but I aim to do more.

What's the 多読 thing? Is that something you are doing with others? Looked for a thread on it but couldn't find anything. Cool idea.

I'm still working my way through the Magic Tree House books. The writing is very good with rich descriptions, and the Kanji are right around N3 level. There are rubi on everything, but if you try, you can ignore them. These are a great next step after the Level 4 Graded Readers (I posted this to my 2016 study plan here).

What are you reading to total up to 350 pages?

Hi poiprotocol! Gomen for not going further about 多読. It is a reading event that goes on in Twitter. Good way to keep track of the amount of reading you have done and further motivate you (it is a contest). Someone from the forums made a thread on it too. The first post summarizes the event and gives links to the tadoku rules and such for further details on the event.

http://forum.koohii.com/thread-10835.htm...ght=tadoku

The 350 pages is just an overall target goal I set myself for the month but right now I am reading 「しろくまカッフェ」vol 1 and I plan to read through the entire series which is a short 5 volumes. You can set the desired page goal and I thought 350 was a good amount for me; not too much and not too little.

[EDIT] Since I'm reading manga, my page count will differ than say, a novel, due to the number of words per page. Different forms of media will have a different page count according to the contest rules. This is why my 5 volumes might not cut the 350 pages goal but I already have a second manga series lined up on my to-do list

You will see what I mean about the page count when you read the official site.