I plan to learn chinese too, and the first set of books i want to get my head through are the ones by 查良鏞 (Louis Cha) / Pen name Jin Yong 金庸.

I started reading the english translation of book and the sword, and it was too shithouse for me to continue. So I can't wait till I grasp some Mandarin.

I also find Mandarin interesting simply because of how and when their hanzi usage differs from that in Japanese, for example their '行く’　is '去', well I'm not sure if it's equivalent but that was just by looking at some random sentence my friend typed when I asked him to say "I'm going to eat" or something. I think that's where my interest in Korean stems from too, hanja to me are also fascinating I try to look up the readings of most of the kanji I learn in an e-dict, I could probably only recall about 10 . Playing with Korean grammar is fun too.

Welldone101, my physics lectures go on about how most bank managers are actually physicists I don't know if they're joking to make themselves feel better but it could have some truth to it haha

Nii87 has a point, University so far to me has been to get something on paper in the end I don't know about college, I always thought Americans called "University", "College" . One thing I'm disappointed with our faculty is that they don't have a calligraphy course! I wish they did

welldone101 Wrote:There's a reason that a majority of the worlds greatest thinkers and innovators are being churned out of US colleges, and I believe it's mostly because we are educating people in how to think, rather than how to know.

I'm finding myself pretty unconvinced by this statement.

My experience with the universitites here in California is that for the most part the education system teaches people to be work-force drones and cogs in the machinery of society more than anything else.

SammyB Wrote:

welldone101 Wrote:There's a reason that a majority of the worlds greatest thinkers and innovators are being churned out of US colleges, and I believe it's mostly because we are educating people in how to think, rather than how to know.

I'm finding myself pretty unconvinced by this statement.

Seconded.

liosama Wrote:I also find Mandarin interesting simply because of how and when their hanzi usage differs from that in Japanese, for example their '行く’　is '去', well I'm not sure if it's equivalent but that was just by looking at some random sentence my friend typed when I asked him to say "I'm going to eat" or something.

Well, we used to use 去ぬ, which you'll find in lots of poetry from around the 9th and 10th centuries. I'm not sure if I'd call it the direct equivalent of 行く though, as there are differences.

Nii87 Wrote:

SammyB Wrote:

welldone101 Wrote:There's a reason that a majority of the worlds greatest thinkers and innovators are being churned out of US colleges, and I believe it's mostly because we are educating people in how to think, rather than how to know.

I'm finding myself pretty unconvinced by this statement.

Seconded.

x 3. I'd like to see some data to back up such a claim because it is definitely not my college experience.

IMO the US college system is, for the most part, a complete joke when taking into account the money/time spent.

activeaero Wrote:

Nii87 Wrote:

SammyB Wrote:I'm finding myself pretty unconvinced by this statement.

Seconded.

x 3. I'd like to see some data to back up such a claim because it is definitely not my college experience.

IMO the US college system is, for the most part, a complete joke when taking into account the money/time spent.

There's not really a data point that you can use to back up such a claim. For one, how do you measure a "program" at a university? It's a collection of everybody who works and goes there, on top of everything outside of class that you learn. I could cite the US GDP (which is a pretty good indicator of where the innovations in the world are happening), but we have a headstart there because we have a lot of money to start with.

One way to examine this idea is to look in the field. Medical technology for instance. If you look at the top people in this field around the world, where are they educated? A majority, in the US, not at Tokyo University. If you look at the field of International Comparative education almost universally they are educated in the US. And while we do have numerical superiority in the sheer number of colleges, that doesn't account for everything. Aijin, would you trade Stanford for any U in Japan? I would argue that you'd regret it later. Todai may have clout in Japan, but nobody outside of the country would look twice when comparing to a Stanford educated grad (and there's a reason for this, it's not just politics).

As far as it not being your college experience. I would argue that you probably have not experienced university in a great number of other countries. As for the price, well you get what you pay for. Small classes, direct access to professors (PHDs) for 4 years is not going to be had for less than $20,000 a year. If you just go to the UofM for $8000 a year, that's a bit more than say, the University of Barcelona, except that the state subsidies the U a lot more in Spain, so really they pay just as much but through taxes.

I have been living in China a while (my girlfriend is from Southern China).

thermal Wrote:- It sounds really weird and cool.
- It is supposed to be really hard with the different tones. I like a challenge.

I agree. Like a few people I have spoken to, at first to my ears Mandarin just sounded like they were shouting at each other the whole time but after listening to it a bit more and learning some it actually sounds kind of cool. The tone thing is a barrier non-tonal language native speakers have to overcome but really once you get a word down in your head you just don't think about the tones so much, you just *know* how to say it correctly. But it's definitely one of the first steps you should be focusing on.

thermal Wrote:- I really enjoy Japanese anime, manga and books. I like Kung Fu movies, but my understanding is these are in Cantonese. I don't think there is a whole lot of media in Mandarin that interests me.

Yes, a lot of Kung Fu movies you see abroad are in Cantonese. But at the same time there is a lot of good movies in Mandarin, I think you just don't hear about them so much due to Hong Kong being kind of dominant in the movie industry in that area. I think a recent film "Nan King Nan King!" (I'm not sure if that's the full title) looked pretty awesome in the trailers.

thermal Wrote:- Even bigger Kanji burden. RTK was awesome, but I don't feel like doing the same thing again.

A lot of the kanji you see in Japanese are used in Chinese so you already have a headstart. Since you already know quite a lot from RTK, and you already have the method down for learning them, it shouldn't be so hard. Also, a lot of the Chinese ones are simplified so less complicated to remember.

thermal Wrote:- I don't find the culture so interesting, like I do Japanese culture.

I think this is just due to lack of exposure and less cultural exports unlike Japan where everyone knows what anime is. China has an insanely long history, a lot of things you find in Japan are imported from China (culture, language for example). You just need to pick up a Chinese history book or find something to get your interest and I'm sure you will find something that will get you hooked.

These are just my thoughts having lived there and having learnt Chinese (although not to a very advanced level). Once I get my Japanese up to a higher level I will definitely be continuing with my Mandarin, I hope you do the same. Best of luck.

My only reason:

The incoming HUGE Chinese websites tsunami...it will multiply your acess to processed information because of their ***** HUGE "manpower".

An example: Almost all the time, the Chinese scantrad of bleach are uploaded before the English AND Japanese version...And I hate to wait man .

Internet is the best thing that happened to Humanity ( after me of course)

mustalflex Wrote:it will multiply your acess to processed information because of their ***** HUGE "manpower".

Although China's population is currently over 1.3 billion, I wonder why there are only 5905 active users in the Chinese Wikipedia (half of the Japanese active users) and why the Japanese Wikipedia is 3 times larger than the Chinese Wikipedia.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias

Yeah I know, but there is an absolute control on the web by the authorities...(They force the web users to use substitute websites to the biggest ones like Google, youtube wikipedia,etc... They have their own closed ecosystem)

Sooner or later there will be a growth,like their economy growth, an exponential one.

It's gotta be worth it. Like 8 times more worth it than Japanese, even with anime.

I found some good chinese indie:

here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWUp6uWCZxw

does this make it worth it? lol. it makes me want to learn mandarin..............

for me i just feel like there's awesome things that are in mandarin and ijust have to find them. as you find them, you get more motivated, etc. as of now i haven't started learning mandarin... just passive listening so i can't comment on the is it worth it question

I was of the thought that Chinese was the language to learn if one were to start a new one today. I watched a documentary on the missing girls crisis a few days ago and I am not so sure the economic boom is not going to be derailed by the social strife caused by there not being enough women of marrying age in a few years. This along with with censorship, human rights issues and ethnic minority unrest may tip the country into chaos.

ocircle Wrote:http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6707/...heworl.gif
It's gotta be worth it. Like 8 times more worth it than Japanese, even with anime.

I think people overestimate those numbers. I don't want to sound arrogant or so but a lot of the chinese are either simple peasants or part time workers, the middle class is still low compared to other countries. There is a big cultural history but you can't relate the current cultural output directly to the population size like in other, more "developed" countries. As people in China seem to like the capitalist way more and more, starting to have fun consuming things, I heard that the most popular books are translations sort of " how to get rich with 10 easy steps" or "the 7 simple principles of big profit" .
I don't want to say, there is not more interesting output but you can't just say its e.g. 8 times the output of japan just because of the population size.

Agreed with thorstenu. There are some shows on Chinese TV that are "nice" however there is nothing even close to the manga/anime-stuff that is out in Japan. China is growing fast and one can do fun stuff, however I have yet to find movies/other fun stuff chinese related that one can do outside of China. My impression is that they so far are just missing the "cool"-factor. (Maybe because of the ever present "I want to be rich and successful" mindset - and the overly hierarchic society structure).

The youtube links above are pretty cool.

It sounds that many here are questioning whether or not to study Mandarin out of sense of duty, or with the idea that it's something one should do since they already study Japanese and know some hanzi, or because there are so many Mandarin speakers.

None of which seem to be good reasons to invest the time required to learn Mandarin. There's a fascinating world of literature, media, etc. in Mandarin but it is quite different from that available in Japanese. Especially when you factor in the tumultuous history of modern China. I think though that if one can only maintain an interest in a language via manga/anime, Mandarin is probably not a good choice. Please don't mistake this for casting judgment on those who learn best through those methods, I'm not, I'm just suggesting that one studies what they love, not what they think they should study for reasons x, y, z.

hobofat Wrote:It sounds that many here are questioning whether or not to study Mandarin out of sense of duty, or with the idea that it's something one should do since they already study Japanese and know some hanzi, or because there are so many Mandarin speakers.

None of which seem to be good reasons to invest the time required to learn Mandarin. There's a fascinating world of literature, media, etc. in Mandarin but it is quite different from that available in Japanese. Especially when you factor in the tumultuous history of modern China. I think though that if one can only maintain an interest in a language via manga/anime, Mandarin is probably not a good choice. Please don't mistake this for casting judgment on those who learn best through those methods, I'm not, I'm just suggesting that one studies what they love, not what they think they should study for reasons x, y, z.

But don't you wonder what all the chinese people are saying about you at the supermarket cos they think you don't know?

I would if I could so why wouldn't they...

Most Chinese you come across in supermarkets would probably be speaking Cantonese, not Mandarin.

Nii87 Wrote:Most Chinese you come across in supermarkets would probably be speaking Cantonese, not Mandarin.

Depends entirely on your locale. Most Chinese I encounter at the supermarket here are speaking Mandarin.

And yes, that's a perfectly good reason to study Chinese, to know what people are saying about you! Though I found the more I understood the more I realized they weren't saying anything consequential about me whatsoever...

Let's face it - learning Chinese isn't easy. And if someone is still looking for their motivation, that doesn't bode well for their future studies. You don't need to be *dedicated* from the beginning, just motivated enough to study for one more week. Then another. Then, like me, two years down the line you're an elementary conversationalist, and finished Heisig book 1 :-)

I travel a lot, and almost always I bump into Chinese people - no matter what country I go to. A laowai that speaks basic Chinese is an instant ice-breaker - a great way to meet people. No other language (other than English) is quite as universal. IMHO.

[ファブリス]

Stickied as this is a nice motivational topic.

"The problem is even worse because of the Revolution : where Mao simplified most characters, people in Taiwan kept the complex character. So you can have two ways of writing a character, and 5 ways of reading it (one for each main dialect)."

lol Not anything unusual for us, who learn Japanese.


http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/l...index.html

I'm finding it hard to get motivated to learn Mandarin, due to lack of interesting media.

I'm living in Taiwan now, and frankly the TV is terrible. We have a 50 channel cable TV package and I'm not kidding when I say about 50% of all the channel are dedicated to soap operas (cheap tacky love-based dramas). In fact the only thing on TV are soaps, variety shows, the news and cooking shows!

We even have 15 HD channels, and most of them are dedicated to Korean soaps and golf! argh! Honestly I find myself watching the English and Japanese language channels, hopefully this'll change once my language gets better..

I'm still motivated to learn so I can maker friends and speak to my girlfriends parents! But as a language to learn for "fun", it ain't the same as Japanese which had the constant excitement of so many amazing movies, music, anime and video games. Japanese was just cooler somehow, oh well..

Dubs?