I want to get your advice.

Hi! Do you mean the language 'Japanese'? What kind of advice do you want? Whether or not you should learn Japanese, or...?

(2015-11-14, 5:10 am)Ash_S Wrote: Hi! Do you mean the language 'Japanese'? What kind of advice do you want? Whether or not you should learn Japanese, or...?

I mean the Japanese people.

Overall? Um, polite and hardworking. Can you give us an example of what kind of answers you're hoping to get?

Japanese people are people, first and foremost. Which means that anything said about the group of Japanese people in general may not apply *at all* to any individual Japanese person.

As obvious as that is, it's easy to forget it when the culture in general shares so few touchstones with the Judeo-Christian world. Thus sweeping statements are necessary, and a good way to get a handle on things, because otherwise you get nowhere, but every single general statement might be completely wrong for the Japanese person in front of you.

Polite and hardworking (as noted above) is absolutely correct in general, and yet rude, lazy, irresponsible Japanese people abound.

Here's one thing to know: mistakes early in life have permanent consequences in Japan. I know Americans who committed what amounts to felonies in their teens and now are doctors and lawyers. This is not how things work in Japan at all. Because the college you get into basically determines your prospects in life in Japan. Not the college you graduate from, because basically once you get into a college, you will graduate. So getting in is all that matters.

Thus polite and hardworking is an absolute requirement for anyone who plans to live a respectable life. The pressure on teens is absolutely mind-blowing.

Elementary kids clean their own schools daily.

As above, these are generalities but...

People here have to "know their place" within the order of things. That starts with if you are a man or a woman. If you are older or younger. Senior or inferior. Your school. Your company. Japanese or "foreigner".

Hierarchy is vertical of course, as is anywhere, but also you have inside and outside distinctions.

Foreign visitors are outsiders. Guests. Hence you are exempt from a lot of the hierarchical pressures and social (and physical) violence. Regular people are not.

I find many people here to be extremely kind and considerate. But also many to be very cruel, cold hearted and/or quite crazy. On the one hand you have a culture of paying attention to others and your surroundings which can manifest itself in a positive genuinely "kind" sense. On the other hand you can have the same attention used for discrimination, isolation, and bullying of others. Something like Western high-school dynamics can play out among fully grown adults. So, if somebody is being picked on because they are weak, or are in a weak position, you might want to jump in and give them the boot too. Just because you can. Because it helps internally and externally to solidify your "place" in the chain of things.

So, some individuals here are simply fantastic. But foreign visitors, especially if they are not Asian, tend to misunderstand much of the "politeness" here, in part due to being in a privileged position of the temporary outsider, in part because of a long history of orientalism etc. Behind the facade is a lot of very, very nasty stuff that is simply taken for granted by people here as "just how things are". It's a very different mind set, and not without its strong points, but not something most "modern" people would find themselves comfortable with (i.e. people who believe in freedom, rights, self-expression etc.)

(2015-11-14, 5:10 am)Ash_S Wrote: What kind of advice do you want?

He asked before with more specifics but no one responded: http://forum.koohii.com/thread-13080.html

(2015-11-16, 12:07 am)Danchan Wrote: But also many to be very cruel, cold hearted and/or quite crazy. On the one hand you have a culture of paying attention to others and your surroundings which can manifest itself in a positive genuinely "kind" sense. On the other hand you can have the same attention used for discrimination, isolation, and bullying of others. Something like Western high-school dynamics can play out among fully grown adults. So, if somebody is being picked on because they are weak, or are in a weak position, you might want to jump in and give them the boot too. Just because you can. Because it helps internally and externally to solidify your "place" in the chain of things.

So, some individuals here are simply fantastic. But foreign visitors, especially if they are not Asian, tend to misunderstand much of the "politeness" here, in part due to being in a privileged position of the temporary outsider, in part because of a long history of orientalism etc. Behind the facade is a lot of very, very nasty stuff that is simply taken for granted by people here as "just how things are".

Man… I thought I had made peace with the fact that people are animals to one another—always have been, always will be—but apparently not. I intellectually realize that my own society has plenty of ugliness in it, and those from other societies will be shocked by reading a reasonable description of our societal problems in middle America, but still.

Thanks for this.

(2015-11-15, 11:46 pm)kapalama Wrote: mistakes early in life have permanent consequences in Japan. I know Americans who committed what amounts to felonies in their teens and now are doctors and lawyers. This is not how things work in Japan at all. Because the college you get into basically determines your prospects in life in Japan. … The pressure on teens is absolutely mind-blowing.

I didn't properly appreciate this either. I'm struggling to remind myself that people everywhere have just as many problems as everywhere else, it's just that those problems are different. But still I feel bad about this.

Gotta remain positive about life though!

(2015-11-14, 2:06 am)fxlle Wrote: I want to get your advice.

Quote:ここのところ、日本関連のデータを探します。いろいろ勉強になります。でも、西洋人の思惑が分かりません。データはもっと要ります。貴方は日本人ともに暮らすこと、
どのように日本人と快く過ごすか
日本人の良し悪しに貴方の評価
日本人に対した好き嫌い
日本人の性格
日本の歴史
などつぶやきませんか？
ご意見聞きたいです。
英語は初心者ですもの、見てオーケーが書けないと申しわけない。

Chapter 4: How Asians View Each Other
http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/14/chap...ach-other/

Hidden Differences: Doing Business with the Japanese (英語) ペーパーバック – 1990/5/18
Edward T. Hall (著), Mildred Reed Hall (著)

There are many reading materials (books, journals, etc..) and research papers which may help to address some of your questions but I hesitate to introduce more English-related writings since you have indicated "英語は初心者ですもの"...

(2015-11-15, 11:46 pm)kapalama Wrote: Japanese people are people, first and foremost. Which means that anything said about the group of Japanese people in general may not apply *at all* to any individual Japanese person.

1民族性格がほんとにあると思います。
全日本から見れば、ある性格の持ち主は甚だしい割合を占めます。これから、この性格は民族性格になりかねません。
2民族性格は特別な箇所があります。例えば、ブラジャーを着した日本人男性先生は極一部存在します。これは特別の点です。
3民族性格について、貴方の説明通り、一人の日本人を分析するのに使います。

(2015-11-15, 10:10 pm)Bokusenou Wrote: Overall? Um, polite and hardworking. Can you give us an example of what kind of answers you're hoping to get?

どうして日本人は礼儀正しいですか？
例がありますか？

(2015-11-19, 9:20 am)fxlle Wrote:

(2015-11-15, 10:10 pm)Bokusenou Wrote: Overall? Um, polite and hardworking. Can you give us an example of what kind of answers you're hoping to get?

どうして日本人は礼儀正しいですか？
例がありますか？

http://heaaart.com/post/33566

上のURLを見てみて下さい。
日本風の礼儀正しさをよくわかっていただけると思います。

簡単に言うと、日本には他人に迷惑をかけることを嫌う文化があります。
例えば電車でのマナーは良い例でしょう。
におい、食べこぼしなどが迷惑になるから、食べ物を食べない。
うるさくて人の迷惑になるから、通話したり大声で話したりしない。携帯電話をマナーモードにする。
日本ではこれが当たり前のマナーです。

もちろん日本人全員マナーがいいわけではありませんが、
日本は比較的マナーの良い人が多いと言えるでしょう。

ps. anyone having trouble typing japanese post-update? my text keeps disappearing when I try to convert it. I had to type elsewhere and copy&paste.

こんな客観的な資料を、僕はいります。ありがとうございます。

(2015-11-20, 5:40 am)fxlle Wrote: こんな客観的な資料を、僕はいります。ありがとうございます。

まあ、”客観的な資料”っていうとは、相手次第ですね。よく見ると、あのサイト（Ｗｏｒｌｄ　Ｓｅｎｓｅ）と関連チャンネルもＪａｐａｎｏｐｈｉｌｅっぽい（親日派）らしいでしょう。結局、十人十色なわけだが

親日派
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BA%B2%...5%E6%B4%BE

関連チャンネル
日本に世界が感動！
クールＪａｐａｎ！！
和の国ジパング
日本ＬＯＶＥちゃんねる
日本大好き外国人
日本ダイスキネ！

ほんとうは日本に憧れる中国人 「反日感情」の深層分析 (PHP新書) 新書 – 2005/1/18
王 敏 (著)

若者バトル日本vs中国 - 宋文洲「日本の若者はエネルギーがない」田原総一郎 × 宋文洲

【爆笑】中国人も呆れ返る中国のオレオレ詐欺事情　田原総一郎 × 宋文洲

宋文洲：
「僕に対してやさしい日本は。ホントにいい国だよ。
でもね～何というか飽きるん­だよね～刺激がない。
中国にはトンデモナイ不愉快な奴、あほな奴がウジャウジャが居る­。
それが普通に放置されているのが面白い。」

(2015-11-20, 10:08 am)eslang Wrote:

(2015-11-20, 5:40 am)fxlle Wrote: こんな客観的な資料を、僕はいります。ありがとうございます。

まあ、”客観的な資料”っていうとは、相手次第ですね。よく見ると、あのサイト（Ｗｏｒｌｄ　Ｓｅｎｓｅ）と関連チャンネルもＪａｐａｎｏｐｈｉｌｅっぽい

そうか