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Visual novels as study tool

#1
Hey everyone. I need your opinion on something. Recently I found this
http://blog.fuwanovel.net/2013/02/how-to...-or-anime/

It seemed like and interesting article and it got me thinking. My goal is to be able to read Light Novels, Manga, Visual novels and watch anime raw. Till now I have been using RTK and core6k Anki decks, currently finishing Tae Kim's grammar.
As I see, Visual Novels could be an excelent tool to study. They are fun, you can both read and listen at the same time. With programs like Jparser it makes quite easy to fix parts which you don't know (kanji readings, meanings of specific words etc.). So I was thinking about using this method instead of my Anime Anki decks.

So here are my questions. What is your opinion about this? And if I pick this study method, is it really worth it to putting everything into anki after that?
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#2
I think it's a perfectly fine study method. The voiced lines are nice for giving you a real sense of the pronunciation of words, but I'm not sure what the ratio is out there of unvoiced/partly voiced/fully voiced VNs. Fully voiced would be ideal in the early stages. Partly voiced is fine later on, because authors tend to use the same terms repeatedly, so you'll usually get to hear all the new words sooner or later.

My experience with VN's is limited to a few that I got from Steam, and not using any tools other than keeping a dictionary app open on my cell phone. My impression, however, is that VN's are the same level of challenge as any other prose. I don't really find a big difference between reading VN's, LN's or any form of 小説. That's not to say there aren't easier and harder works - but 'ease' isn't correlated with the formats.

I wouldn't make any principle of sticking exclusively to VN's. A lot of Manga can be relatively easy to read - although characters that speak in dialect also pose some of the most difficult reading challenges you'll encounter. Try to pick manga with lots of standard japanese dialogue, and not many narration boxes.
There will be at least a token kansai or okinawan character in almost every manga though. Even ones set in other worlds use those dialects to represent regional speech.

Whatever work you're reading, I think it's worth adding vocabulary from it into Anki. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'after that', but I would try to add words to Anki as you go. You'll continue to encounter the same vocabulary throughout a longer work in itself, and also when reading works by the same author or in the same genre.
You don't have to add every single word you encounter, of course, but there's no better words to add to your vocabulary cards than the ones you actually encounter in the material you like to read. Frequency lists are kind of useless after the first few thousand words.
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#3
I started doing something like this after I finished core6k and reached ~N3 level grammar. It was still quite hard with tons of unknown vocab but the quick lookups with ITH + Aggregator and how easy it was to add cards to Anki afterwards made it less painful than the alternatives. I don't really add every single word to Anki though, only if I find it enough times to bother me or I think it will be useful moving forward.

If you haven't read any native materials yet I think it's better to get your feet wet with some easy manga like Yotsuba instead and then move on to the "easy" slice of life VNs. Something like Hanahira which to me was somewhat boring but I haven't really found anything simpler in terms of grammar/vocab.
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#4
SomeCallMeChris Wrote:You don't have to add every single word you encounter, of course, but there's no better words to add to your vocabulary cards than the ones you actually encounter in the material you like to read. Frequency lists are kind of useless after the first few thousand words.
That depends – you can make a personalized frequency list using stuff you read, subtitles of things you watch etc. as the corpus. It's good for those who don't like interrupting their reading sessions, this way they don't have to use dictionaries too often nor have to decide which words they want to save for later while they're reading, which can be distracting. The biggest problem is that this way you lose context, but that would happen anyway if you were adding words alone without the sentences using any other method.
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#5
SomeCallMeChris Wrote:Whatever work you're reading, I think it's worth adding vocabulary from it into Anki.
Personally, I find visual novels to be one of the worst options for that. Other games and manga can give you a good image to use for the card, if you use images from visual novels they will all look almost the same and blend together.

I think they're perfectly fine for extensive reading though.
Edited: 2015-11-08, 6:01 pm
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#6
If you ever decide to use VN, use try this challenge http://japaneselevelup.com/forum/?p=%2Fp...on-7753666
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#7
vn's are great for practice, but they tend to be way to hard for beginners. I'd recommend doing something like core 6k and reading a few easy light novels and web news first!
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#8
z1bbo Wrote:vn's are great for practice, but they tend to be way to hard for beginners. I'd recommend doing something like core 6k and reading a few easy light novels and web news first!
While NHK News Easy http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/ certainly lives up to its name. The regular news, however, can be pretty rough going for a beginner. It also is a poor choice for ramping up to reading novels and watching anime because it's an entirely different kind of material.
JoI teacher's blog has some nice easyish entries on very general topics.

I don't think light novels are particularly easier or harder than VN's. Of course it depends on the LN and VN in question, but both mediums have a spread of difficulties.

Of course the -easiest- thing to start with is something like the Yotsubato! manga.

No native work is really truly easy for the beginner though, it's just you have to start somewhere.

Also you can get graded readers if you want a smoother curve. Going from anki reps to LNs or VNs is a pretty big jump.
Edited: 2015-11-12, 10:23 pm
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#9
I am in same situation. 
However from my experience, I can say, that learning vocabulary is completely useless idea. You need thousands of words in kanji and phonetic form to understand text.


What you really need is to learn katakana and hiragana scripts, you need both of them 
and you will also need Japanese grammar. Unfortunately it will be not typical grammar, but some obscure mix of slang depending on what manga you are reading.

I noticed that it is waste of time to learn verbs besides most basic ones like 
"mitte"-look , "matte"- wait   and other that come in form of command
But it is very usefull to learn words that express emotions and some common nouns.
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#10
I want to use Stein's Gate and Fate/stay visual novels as a study tool for japanese.
Does there exist raw Japanese and also translated scripts for the whole games? I would like to be able to study away from the computer and also use it as reading practice.
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#11
(2015-11-12, 10:21 pm)SomeCallMeChris Wrote:
z1bbo Wrote:vn's are great for practice, but they tend to be way to hard for beginners. I'd recommend doing something like core 6k and reading a few easy light novels and web news first!
While NHK News Easy http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/ certainly lives up to its name. The regular news, however, can be pretty rough going for a beginner. It also is a poor choice for ramping up to reading novels and watching anime because it's an entirely different kind of material.
JoI teacher's blog has some nice easyish entries on very general topics.

I don't think light novels are particularly easier or harder than VN's. Of course it depends on the LN and VN in question, but both mediums have a spread of difficulties.

Of course the -easiest- thing to start with is something like the Yotsubato! manga.

No native work is really truly easy for the beginner though, it's just you have to start somewhere.

Also you can get graded readers if you want a smoother curve. Going from anki reps to LNs or VNs is a pretty big jump.

I think NHK news Easy is a really good website. I go to that website everyday and learn a lot of new vocabularies there.

Highly recommend that website to all Japanese learners
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#12
(2015-11-28, 1:36 pm)foreverunclean Wrote: I want to use Stein's Gate and Fate/stay visual novels as a study tool for japanese.
Does there exist raw Japanese and also translated scripts for the whole games? I would like to be able to study away from the computer and also use it as reading practice.

bump
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#13
(2016-02-23, 6:47 pm)foreverunclean Wrote:
(2015-11-28, 1:36 pm)foreverunclean Wrote: I want to use Stein's Gate and Fate/stay visual novels as a study tool for japanese.
Does there exist raw Japanese and also translated scripts for the whole games? I would like to be able to study away from the computer and also use it as reading practice.

bump


You can probably use a text hooker on the pc versions.  AGTH, ITH, etc..
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#14
This might work for extracting the Fate/Stay Night scripts. You can view the English scripts online at http://nrvnqsr.wikia.com/wiki/Fate/stay_Night_Scripts
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#15
(2016-02-24, 1:28 am)cracky Wrote:
(2016-02-23, 6:47 pm)foreverunclean Wrote:
(2015-11-28, 1:36 pm)foreverunclean Wrote: I want to use Stein's Gate and Fate/stay visual novels as a study tool for japanese.
Does there exist raw Japanese and also translated scripts for the whole games? I would like to be able to study away from the computer and also use it as reading practice.

bump


You can probably use a text hooker on the pc versions.  AGTH, ITH, etc..

Thanks 
I've extracted the scripts for steins gate. 
So much stuff to delete though :/

I can upload them somewhere if someone wants to get rid of the unnecessary parts
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#16
(2016-02-24, 5:28 am)Vempele Wrote: This might work for extracting the Fate/Stay Night scripts. You can view the English scripts online at http://nrvnqsr.wikia.com/wiki/Fate/stay_Night_Scripts

Thanks. I'll give it a try later. I've just realised I uninstalled it and forgot when i bumped the post
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#17
ITH + Aggregator  is an old and outdated method apparently. The newer method is less hassle.
Info is below.

http://sakuradite.com/wiki/en/vnr

https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/wi...reader_way

Combine that with Firefox furigana inserter and Rikaichan plugin.  
You use furigana inserter to use monitor clipboard feature and it starts to automatically copy and paste dialgoues from the VN to your empty firefox page. On top of that you use RikaiChan to instantly see kanji reading and meaning. This saves the trouble of manually looking up vocab etc in dictionary.

Ofcourse ..VNR has built in feature that does that. So its optional.

I learned about this method from watching this guys video.




hope it helps. Good luck.
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#18
(2016-04-06, 3:47 am)NinkuEx Wrote: Combine that with Firefox furigana inserter and Rikaichan plugin.  
You use furigana inserter to use monitor clipboard feature and it starts to automatically copy and paste dialgoues from the VN to your empty firefox page. On top of that you use RikaiChan to instantly see kanji reading and meaning. This saves the trouble of manually looking up vocab etc in dictionary.

An even less hassle way is to use your text hooker of choice with Jglossator.
http://jglossator.sourceforge.net/
http://forum.koohii.com/thread-10386.html
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