What are the standards for generic English teaching jobs in Japan and both sides of the JET program [ALT and the other one]

I got multiple degrees including the MBA but have done nothing with them really. I can technically fill the years saying I worked for my brother which I have but on such a part time level that it is a bit of a farce. I have started learning Japanese recently and have no real interest in going over unless I get N1 or at least N2 [considering that 18K vocab requirement, yikes]. I have recently started at a call center just to get a little something extra on the resume. Would a few years of that help. Also I am 46 now and from what I understand age beyond a certain level can be a negative.

Is working in Japan a pipe dream? Not so much for the money, I could live a frugal life without working no as it is. However I do find it a bit isolating socially speaking not working and figure a few years in Japan would be a bit better if I had some sort of work to fit in better. Ignoring the difficulty of getting a long term visa without work or study if I understand the situation right.

I know one person who says all you need is a heart beat and the ability to grunt in English but his experiences are in other nearby countries and I get the impression things are changing quickly.

For JET, a BA in any field and the ability to convince the interviewers you're a normal, relatively presentable person and you won't (a) cause any problems, (b) do something stupid or embarrassing, or © freak out and leave early. For other teaching jobs more or less the same thing, if they're recruiting from overseas, plus a working visa if you're already in Japan.

Here are the criteria: http://jetprogramusa.org/eligibility/

They used to have a rule that you can't be over 35 years old or something like that, but this rule appears to have been removed. They probably still like their applicants to be on the younger side though.

I interviewed for it once, but didn't get in. The interview is weird because they can ask you to do crazy stuff without giving you any instructions or anything. I think a guy I knew had to talk about cornbread or something for a few minutes after he casually mentioned it.

I was asked to give a sample lesson, and I kinda freaked out. They didn't give me any instruction at all, other than just something like "Imagine we are children and give a short lesson on something". I just awkwardly started talking about myself and where I come from in broken English. Yea... it was bad...

[Zgarbas]

Every time I see someone becoming an English teacher Just because they want to go to Japan but have no real interest or ability to teach I feel the need to beg them not to, because disinteres teachers are a terrible thing to have. I don't understand why English teaching has become a conbini-level job, when it is such an important factor in the formation of a student's life...

Zgarbas Wrote:I don't understand why English teaching has become a conbini-level job, when it is such an important factor in the formation of a student's life...

Junior high school English class is about as important in the formation of a Japanese kid's life as French or Spanish class is for a junior high school kid in the Anglosphere. Nobody who is fluent in English got that way from a secondary school EFL class. In the case of Japanese English speakers it's probably fair to say they got that way in spite of their classes in secondary school.

Zgarbas Wrote:I don't understand why English teaching has become a conbini-level job, when it is such an important factor in the formation of a student's life...

As a JET ALT myself, I wouldn't say that English teaching in and of itself has become a conbini-level job - the main function of teaching English from middle school and up is in the hands of a trained and licensed Japanese instructor, and of course these teachers are the backbone of English education in Japan, not ALTs. As for ALTs, I think the outcome is result of the priorities of the system itself - it's set up to bring a steady stream of young people to Japan, to expose Japanese school children with young people from other countries. Once you decide you want a steady stream of young people, the idea that it will become established as a career field and that you'll be able to have high base requirements for recruitment beyond the obligatory college degree kind of goes out the window.

Dudeist Wrote:What are the standards for generic English teaching jobs in Japan and both sides of the JET program [ALT and the other one]

I got multiple degrees including the MBA but have done nothing with them really.

Is working in Japan a pipe dream? Not so much for the money, I could live a frugal life without working no as it is. However I do find it a bit isolating socially speaking not working and figure a few years in Japan would be a bit better if I had some sort of work to fit in better. Ignoring the difficulty of getting a long term visa without work or study if I understand the situation right.

Most people have covered the standards and made the points. JET might be hard to get into, and honestly JET tends to be a crapshot anyway. Dispatch companies have better odds though they come with their own problems.

Your MBA isn't bad and when it comes to real jobs in Japan, besides IT, business/management is where you can find them. Depending on how you can spin your time working with your brother, you can probably find something beyond teaching.

Pipe dreams don't exist anywhere in the world. There will be enough differences and problems that annoy you in Japan [quite likely] to make things "even out" at best. ex: Maybe you like anime and manga, sure Japan puts you in a place to be able to buy that stuff easily, right from the source, but maybe the constant non-confrontational tendencies of people get under your skin. That's just one example out of 100s.

The thing I'm going to say next contains a lot of 'ifs' and 'maybes'. If you can live frugally and if you can handle living in the middle of nowhere, in a town that might have less than 20,000 people, working with elementary and middle school kids; then you are probably fine on the teaching front. If you are more extroverted than introverted, and are good at networking with people, and can spin your prior work experience well, then you MIGHT be able to find a job to transition out of teaching. Your chances of transitioning out will greatly improve with N2 or N1 JLPT, but a lot of it still hinges on what kind of work experience you had in the past and to a lesser extent maybe how young you can pass yourself off as. If you are heavily committed to your studies, gaining N2 is a hell of a lot easier in Japan than it is outside it; especially since they offer the test twice a year there and some countries only offer it once a year.

You can't really choose where you'll land usually with teaching job in Japan, but if you can land one in the surrounding prefectures of Tokyo (Tochigi, Ibaraki, Chiba, Gunma, etc) that would be best. A lot of companies will ask you where you want to teach, but the choice has little affect really but it might have some affect so long as you don't say "Tokyo." Looking for a transition job will work better if you are in one of these surrounding prefectures though as you can probably get on a train and be in Tokyo in 2-3 hours.

Zgarbas Wrote:I don't understand why English teaching has become a conbini-level job, when it is such an important factor in the formation of a student's life...

Its this way because I think a lot of BoEs get some government subsidy for hiring these teachers. Plus there is also the fact that no one really knows English (JTEs) and its pretty dam hard to hire real certified teachers (Foreign ones) when they don't want to pay the level for that. The thing that really got under my skin as an ALT was that you weren't ever considered a teacher really. While this didn't really bother me since I figured out what I wanted to do wasn't teaching; I can imagine that people that are committed to the idea of being a teacher would find the situation degrading and draining.

The job is such a "conibini-level" thing because of how the ALT position came into existence as early as the 50s, but became a diplomatic program in the 70s and 80s. They've ran on the idea that simply putting a native in front of students to speak English for an hour every few days will magically make students better English speakers. This has been the thought of MEXT for the past 3-4 decades. There's a lot more they could do to improve it all around, and it doesn't even require a foreigner in the classroom. But since a surprising number of JTEs can't actually use English, its pretty dam hard to do without a foreigner.

[Zgarbas]

Given the manner in which I find natives treat the idea of teaching English, I think that it goes deeper than ALTs. The fact that they're so insignificant and don't leave a mark on the kids is kind of a big reason why those kids never learn English imho. i learned so much about the world in English class, as we read books and articles on various topics, discussed history and politics, literature and philosophy in class. The plan was to learn English as well as to use English to learn about the world. Often when people ask me why I know so much trivia I trace it back to my English lessons. My English lessons were just so important to me, and a teacher plays such an important role in a child's life (i fell behind on a lot of subjects that I liked simply because I ran into poor teachers) that I find the attitude towards it incredibly demeaning.
Of course, the Japanese teacher industry is terrible, which means that a lot of unqualified people make it in, and why not since the system is so flawed in the first place, but I just can't condone it. Teaching should be a vocation, or at least a job you're dedicated to, not just some ordinary job

(And I'm genuinely fascinated by the idea that teachers are insignificant in the development of a middle-schooler's life... That's when teachers are the most important!)

James736 Wrote:

Zgarbas Wrote:I don't understand why English teaching has become a conbini-level job, when it is such an important factor in the formation of a student's life...

Junior high school English class is about as important in the formation of a Japanese kid's life as French or Spanish class is for a junior high school kid in the Anglosphere. Nobody who is fluent in English got that way from a secondary school EFL class. In the case of Japanese English speakers it's probably fair to say they got that way in spite of their classes in secondary school.

I would say that the general English proficiency of a country has little to do with the quality of instruction in school and more to do with the quantity of English language media consumed, similarity to English and eventual colonial history. The Anglosphere is not really that different than other places, people tend to learn the language(s) they need to interact with people around them and English. For people in the Anglosphere that just happens to sum up to just one language.

Zgarbas Wrote:i learned so much about the world in English class, as we read books and articles on various topics, discussed history and politics, literature and philosophy in class. The plan was to learn English as well as to use English to learn about the world. Often when people ask me why I know so much trivia I trace it back to my English lessons. My English lessons were just so important to me, and a teacher plays such an important role in a child's life (i fell behind on a lot of subjects that I liked simply because I ran into poor teachers) that I find the attitude towards it incredibly demeaning.
Of course, the Japanese teacher industry is terrible, which means that a lot of unqualified people make it in, and why not since the system is so flawed in the first place, but I just can't condone it. Teaching should be a vocation, or at least a job you're dedicated to, not just some ordinary job

(And I'm genuinely fascinated by the idea that teachers are insignificant in the development of a middle-schooler's life... That's when teachers are the most important!)

That's interesting that English class was so important to you. I'd be curious as to the pace your English classes were at. You mention reading books and articles in English, but at least in the Japanese English classes I'm in, after two years of teaching in elementary school, and three years of teaching in middle school, the textbooks are still around the level of writing about what you want to be when you grow up and explaining directions to people. It sounds like your classes were at a much higher level than the average Japanese English class (admittedly, Romanian is a Romance language and closer related to English).

[Zgarbas]

Of course, exposure to related media can be a powerful learning tool, but you will meet plenty of fluent people in countries which have little similarity to English or colonial history which do not have much English-related material (everything is dubbed). They also formally study English for less time and have fewer natives in the classroom than the average Japanese class. Japan fascinates me since English is seen as so important here, yet the level is incredibly low. Instruction in school does make a difference, it's just that it is often underrated since 'I learned it in school' is, well, not as cool sounding as ignoring its influence and attributing your success to cartoons, travel, and self-study.

Three languages to which I had had virtually zero exposure to, yet I progressed rapidly in, where Latin, German, and Swedish. I only studied them in a classroom, and each time I started out with really good teachers teachers. Unfortunately, all 3 had to leave the school, and my progress froze/disappeared entirely afterwards. Srsly, a meh teacher is irrelevant, a good teacher can have an amazing influence, and a bad enough teacher can be the source of serious trauma. Teachers are your main authority figures for 12+ years of your life; it's weird how underestimated their influence is.

patriconia Wrote:That's interesting that English class was so important to you. I'd be curious as to the pace your English classes were at. You mention reading books and articles in English, but at least in the Japanese English classes I'm in, after two years of teaching in elementary school, and three years of teaching in middle school, the textbooks are still around the level of writing about what you want to be when you grow up and explaining directions to people. It sounds like your classes were at a much higher level than the average Japanese English class (admittedly, Romanian is a Romance language and closer related to English).

We start in 1st grade (I actually started in kindergarden and had private tutoring throughout primary because I was in a pretty terrible school), and primary level textbooks all have texts in them. From year 1. You work sentences, and small texts about random things, from facts about animals to movies, to recipes, etc. Textbooks are 100% in English, and (at least in theory) classes are 100% in English from day 1 - how strict this is enforced depends on the school, though. For the record, 3rd+ language classes are also conducted 100% in that language quite often... This is what the 2nd grade textbook looks like, couldn't find other screenshots online, unfortunately.

In 5th grade you start can switch schools, and I chose intensive English and got into a good school, so the level completely escalated... We have to learn all types of essays and writing formats, do opinion pieces, and read children's novels starting 5th grade - my textbook had Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, which we took an entire year to read through =). The textbooks are scattered with facts about English speaking countries. By 11th grade 19 out of my weekly 30 classes were in English (a normal school would have about 10, which is still a lot); we did UK/US history and geography, culture and civilisation, human rights classes, EU awareness classes, slang classes, and of course everything that would be expected from an A-level in English and literature. We also kind of train our accents because Romanians are elitist about that. here's a random interview with a girl from my school (she's still in secondary when this video was made, and had never been abroad); the accent is very typical for my school, though it's not native-like, ofc. Traditionally schools like mine encourage you to take the CAE (C1) or CPE (C2) in 11th grade, and we have a one-year class dedicated to those types of exercises...

...which are usually news articles, or extracts from lessons, etc. If you take an EFL test such as TOEFL or CPE you will notice that they test out your ability to pick up information... to practice for this we had to read a lot, and it really builds up your trivia =). To practice our argumentation skills even more, my school also had a debate and speech club, but that's unusual. We were hardcore, but the textbooks we used were part of the national curriculum. Random page from my 12th grade textbook. I found later years a lot easier since for some reason we had to do Shakespeare original texts in 9th grade and a pox on that year.

Sure, we're closer to English than Japanese, yeah, but we're really not *that* close. English's Romance influence doesn't become relevant until a more advanced level. Phonetically, even the best Romanian speakers still have problems (I still can't pronounce 'th' correctly), though all Romanians will insist that they sound native-like and that somehow they learned English by watching the telly and school played no part in it. We don't have native teachers, normally, and going abroad to study English is quite an unfathomable concept. This does lead to some hilarious developments, as obviously a lot of Romglish will stick to you since everyone around you makes the exact same mistake, but overall I just never got the point of getting unqualified native English speakers to hang around instead of spending that money to train your current teachers/hire better teachers.

Zgarbas Wrote:Of course, exposure to related media can be a powerful learning tool, but you will meet plenty of fluent people in countries which have little similarity to English or colonial history which do not have much English-related material (everything is dubbed).

Sure, but I was speaking in general terms. There are always exceptions, but by focusing on them you might lose the big picture.

But having said that of course teachers are very important and.

But teaching English in Japan is its own special category. As others have mentioned, in primary and secondary schools the teachers are always Japanese citizens; the ALTs are supposedly there to provide assistance, but of course they're really there to give the kids some exposure to native English speakers and more importantly to give the ALTs some happy memories of Japan to take home with them. Some of the teachers understandably resent or fear this, and the law means the ALT can't have any real responsibility, so that's why it's such a peculiar role.

As for English teachers at private language schools, the pay tends to be shitty, plus they tend to seek out native speakers for the jobs, so Japanese people can't or don't want to do them.

And the assumption is that every foreigner in Japan is there on a temporary basis, and most are, which means there's no incentive for anyone on either side to work at improving the situation or to provide a meaningful career track for teaching English as a foreign language in Japan.

Plus there are the other realities of the Japanese education system, such as university entrance exams, which mean that the English skills that secondary students need to acquire are those that are directly relevant to the entrance exams, which don't include anything that might be considered real communicative ability: ask anyone a question in English and chances are you'll get no intelligible answer, yet everyone who's graduated from high school in Japan has studied it for at least 6 years.

The situation is a little different at universities, but then you need different qualifications and different goals to teach at a university than you do to be an ALT or to teach at a language "school."

[Zgarbas]

http://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/TO...M-2010.pdf

(this is not the best way to compare, as it usually measures people who have the confidence to take the test, and usually who are taking it as part of a requirement to continue their English-inclusive career or academic paths, but still.)

Japan is one of the lowest-ranked, even when compared to countries where there is little connection to English, where everything is dubbed, etc. Even if said countries are renowned for their lack of English ability. They're 21 points below Hungary, 24 below Finland, and though not by a great margin, are ranked lower than other East-Asian countries.

Yeah, your English experience sounds a lot more intensive. There's been talk of having English classes from middle school up taught completely in English, with the 2020 Olympics coming up, and this has caused a lot of consternation from the teachers I've heard talk about it. The students at my school start out in elementary school with one English lesson for 45 minutes about once a week in 5th grade. The textbook put out by the government is called "Hi, Friends!" and if you want a peek at the standards for the 6th grade book put out by MEXT, you can see that here. In middle school, it gets more serious, and the classes are taught more often, but at least at the schools I've been at, ALTs are utilized for about one lesson for each class a week (sometimes less, especially around test times).

I guess what I really want to know is this.

I am 2 weeks into my call center gig. Planning on sticking it out for now. Considering my sparse work history and the disconnect with employable degrees and work outcome, would quitting really kill any aspirations I have of getting hired and the work visa. I only got the job because I know someone there in management and even then I only got called in when they needed a few more bodies to fill a class. My odds of finding anything else are grim. Thank Jebus for those juicy bank and insurance company dividends or I'd be on the dole.


I'll try to reply to some points. Thanks for all the responses.

I applied to Nova or one of the big names in Toronto in the mid 90's and didn't get in. I made it past the interview. I did a mock lesson on the difference between giving and receiving. I struggled a bit as I had no real clue what to do and buddy threw me off a bit when the moment the lesson started he basically turned from a fellow pale white dude to someone who acted very Japanese. Kudos to him and his acting ability. At the end we spoke some more and when it came time to give me the envelope it went for one pile and at the last moment went to the GTFO pile and I didn't get it.
So I am guessing "(a) cause any problems, (b) do something stupid or embarrassing, or © freak out and leave early." isn't enough.

On this topic
"Every time I see someone becoming an English teacher Just because they want to go to Japan but have no real interest or ability to teach I feel the need to beg them not to, because disinteres teachers are a terrible thing to have. I don't understand why English teaching has become a conbini-level job, when it is such an important factor in the formation of a student's life..."

Over and over again I read comments that if you want to go to actually teach then the ALT and even the English schools will be frustrating as you will be put into the role of a performing circus monkey more often then not. The JET program seems to be more an exchange program and the private schools seem to be more concerned with churning money than profits.
That being said, I have pride and I am a decent sort of bloke. If I had neither I'd probably be working on Bay Street. [Think Wall Street but more hockey, politeness and donuts]. So I'd give it the old collage try. I was reading a massive document on the JET ALT program and it actually sounded both interesting and motivating.

Also although I would rather not work in a private school, I wouldn't mind spending at least a year as a ALT, see the inside of the school system. That being said, it would seem the CIR side of things would be ideal for me.

"Pipe dreams don't exist anywhere in the world"
If I am unemployable with my work history then working in Japan would be a pipe dream. "an unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme". I am not one of those people with distorted ideas of Japan Not in terms of it being a land of milk and honey. I only picked Japanese because it doesn't have tones like Chinese and because the Hindi alphabet has issues. My head isn't filled with dreams of Anime and Manga. Actually my head is filled more with dream crusher fears but alas that is a topic for a whole other thread. My life is pretty dim here and I'd like to go some place reasonably safe but very different and shake things up. It might not work but it isn't as if things can get much worse. Just about every day I am thinking I am being the fool for even thinking of going abroad.

A community of 20K might be an issue. I live in one of 50K and there isn't much to do, but if I am within an hour of a bigger center that wouldn't be so bad. I think Hokkaido near/in Sapporo would be optimal. Being Canadian the climate would be less of a change and from what I understand they actually use some insulation and better heating.

As for N2 or N1 being easier in Japan. I am very extroverted but based on my Quebec history I fear that if I go to Japan without getting some serious Japanese in me I'd withdraw to the foreigner bubble. I made it to grade 8 and could barely read French never mind anything else.

I don't really need a high end job. Something that gets me a visa, doesn't demand abusive overtime [Not going to Japan to spend all my time at a desk] and isn't too physical would be fine. Hell I'd be OK with McDonalds. I have enough money coming investment wise that I could finance my own JET salary or pretty close to it. I am good with frugality. Never been drunk, don't smoke helps on that a bit.

Zgarbas Wrote:Of course, exposure to related media can be a powerful learning tool, but you will meet plenty of fluent people in countries which have little similarity to English or colonial history which do not have much English-related material (everything is dubbed). They also formally study English for less time and have fewer natives in the classroom than the average Japanese class. Japan fascinates me since English is seen as so important here, yet the level is incredibly low. Instruction in school does make a difference, it's just that it is often underrated since 'I learned it in school' is, well, not as cool sounding as ignoring its influence and attributing your success to cartoons, travel, and self-study.

**Interesting facts about English learning in Romania**

patriconia basically gave a short run down on the whole thing but I want to add my bit as well.

It sounds like overall Romania takes the issue of English learning far more seriously than Japan does and that plays a huge effect in the way your English skills turn out compared to Japan. One of the biggest problems with ESL in Japanese schools is that they really don't take learning the language seriously until middle school. In Elementary schools it use to be that they only had to learn the language starting in 6th grade, and the amount they needed to know was very little. They've recently pushed this back to 3rd grade, but still there are a lot of problems. First, reading and writing is completely ignored in classes at this point, sure there are English words printed in books, but as ALTs we were told you couldn't teach writing or assume anyone knew what letters were. Again, this is at the Elementary level. MEXT, it seems, thinks that its important to try and recreate the way that humans learn a language, which means you spend your first years speaking and listening and then you do writing. The problem is that this blind sides nearly every freaking kid that doesn't go to a cram school. You get a lot of kids that enter Middle school loving English. They speak it pretty well for their level. Then the teachers walk in and tell them "Ok, you are going to memorize and know how to write all the English letters in 2 weeks." Then after two weeks they have to be able to start reading and writing words. Sure its simple words like red, class, door, etc. But they go from 0 need to read and write to, 80% need to read & write and being tested on it. Specific grammar teaching is also added in middle school. Its usually somewhere in the middle of the first year of junior high, that most kids just shut down when it comes to English and decide they can't do it and start to hate the language.

To make matters worse, Japanese teachers in Elementary school also tend to be very defeatist about ESL as well. A lot of the teaching that takes place in ES is done by the homeroom teacher. There may not be an experienced ESL japanese teacher at the school, meaning the person with the most "credentials" to teach the language are usually the ALT. I can't tell you the number of stories that I heard from other ALTs about homeroom teachers in ES telling students something to the effect of 日本人だから英語が出来ません。 Most of this come spawns from the teacher's own insecurities about their English skill, which they push off onto the students. But its counter-productive because it gives a student an 'out' when something slightly difficult crops up and starts to challenge them; "Oh, I'm Japanese, so its no wonder I can't learn English, oh well."

Next most elementary schools only teach English once a week, although you might get lucky and get some schools that do it twice a week, but thats usually only in the grade levels where there are actual standards being put in place by the government. Its still not enough in my opinion if you are trying to improve English skills.

If Japan wants to turn out students that can speak English at a high level, then they need to go all in. They need to start teaching reading and writing at the Elementary level, they can't just put it off till junior high. They need to do something about the mentality that Japanese teachers have about English as well. They should probably start English at grade 1 and have at least 2 classes a week. They need to make sure there are legitimate ESL JTEs at these schools. Additionally, they have to incorporate English into classes outside of English class. This could probably be done starting in Junior high, but by constantly keeping English class as a separate world of its own, the schools are just reinforcing this idea that English has no impact on their life outside of using English. It wouldn't be hard to add English to science, social studies, and literature classes. But once again, you have this case where most people are super insecure about their English skill and would be horrified at the idea of even having to write English on the board. (As an amusing aside, when MEXT required that all high school English classes had to be done in 100% English -- no Japanese even during grammar explanations -- a lot of ESL Japanese teachers got really nervous.)

Dudeist Wrote:I guess what I really want to know is this.

I am 2 weeks into my call center gig. Planning on sticking it out for now. Considering my sparse work history and the disconnect with employable degrees and work outcome, would quitting really kill any aspirations I have of getting hired and the work visa. I only got the job because I know someone there in management and even then I only got called in when they needed a few more bodies to fill a class. My odds of finding anything else are grim. Thank Jebus for those juicy bank and insurance company dividends or I'd be on the dole.

**Other stuff**

Well, with JET, you have about a month to get your application package together. I just looked at the Japanese Embassy's page in Canada, and your deadline is Nov 30th. A lot of dispatch companies should also probably be finishing their applications. The only dispatch I'm familiar with is Interac, and they have a rolling 4-6 month hiring cycle, where every 4-6 months they'll interview and send a new batch of teachers to Japan. If you want to try for JET, you need to get working on that application NOW, they only do intake once a year.

I guess I don't understand your worry though, are you wondering if quitting your current job will make you unemployable as a teacher because you'd be unemployed when interviewing? If thats the case, then the answer is most likely no, you should be fine.

As for the other points you brought, I'll pick and choose a few things.

First, NOVA is eikaiwa which is different from ALT. There's a bit more "business" involved in an eikaiwa vs being an ALT. If you made it to the interview stage for NOVA, I'd just say try again. The world of ALTs and Eikaiwa has changed a bit since the 90s and there's a greater need for teachers now than there was in the past. Plus, since the time when you interviewed with NOVA, they went bankrupt, were bought up, and were reborn anew.

As for placement in Sapporo/Hokkaido, that may or may not happen. A big problem with landing positions in specific regions is that you don't know what ALTs a region uses. Some prefectures or cities might use JET for high schools and junior highs, and then use a dispatch company for elementary schools. Or they might use dispatch for junior and elementary schools and JET for high schools. JET seems to be used a lot at the high school level I've noticed. If you don't apply to the right company for the region you want, then you have exactly 0 chance of ending up there. Eikaiwa is actually a bit better in this respect because the large Eikaiwas are obviously going to have shops everywhere.

Quote:I don't really need a high end job. Something that gets me a visa, doesn't demand abusive overtime [Not going to Japan to spend all my time at a desk] and isn't too physical would be fine. Hell I'd be OK with McDonalds. I have enough money coming investment wise that I could finance my own JET salary or pretty close to it. I am good with frugality. Never been drunk, don't smoke helps on that a bit.

In that case, Eikaiwa or ALT work is what you are looking for then. Eikaiwa will give you work almost all year round, but expect to work more during the evenings and the weekends, because those are the hours when students will be showing up. Also expect to work during the student holidays. For ALT work, you'll be at school when the kids are at school. Depending on the company you work at you may or may not get paid during the time when you aren't working at school (summer/winter/spring break). I guess if you just want a job in life that gives you money to pay the bills and get food, then ya, either job should probably be fine. You probably won't be buying a house on that salary though. The hours will almost certainly be better than any job you could find in management/finance in Tokyo.

No way am I going to Japan without much better Japanese and much less tonnage. The excess poundage should take about a year, the Japanese I am guessing minimum of 3 if I go into overdrive. Also if I were planning on going "now" my question would be moot because taking a job a month before applying seems at best pointless and at worse counter productive if you want said job to count for something.

I am working on my JET application NOW but with an eye for being desirable in a few years time.

My worry is that my resume is such a pile of manure now that I have trouble getting into call centers never mind something more serious. Without beefing it up do I stand a chance of getting something not horrible in Japan. Sometimes I hear a pulse is enough and other times I hear it is a bit more difficult then that.

I think Nova did me a favor not bringing me on board. Ignoring my own situation back then I've heard bad things about them and for that matter the major chains in general.

The whole location thing, I was talking ideal. If I spend a few years pounding away at the Japanese I don't think I'll let the chance to live there pass by just because of location unless I am truly in the middle of nowhere or asked to go to some place like Okinawa.

Would the Eikaiwas provide a visa for someone working on a part time basis? Really the only reason I'd want to work is for the visa first of all and fitting in. Well except the JET ALT, I am a bit curious about seeing that world. Also a JET/CLT job sounds like it could be interesting. Paying the bills not a problem. I'd consider going the education route but the extra tuition cost would stretch me if I did it more than a year or two. When the time comes I'd consider going over on an education visa for a year or two if I could find a suitable school.

I'll just point out that Japanese skill isn't required for these jobs. I've met ALTs that have spoken 0 Japanese, hell I've met "super-ALTs," ALTs that have been working in Japan since the 80s, that still aren't N3. Knowing Japanese will let you do more and have an easier time for sure, but realize its not at all a requirement for the job.

We're it me, I'd submit my JET app this time around. You have nothing to lose by doing it except feeling uncomfortable about your Japanese level, which has a negligible affect on getting an ALT position (CIR is a different matter, as explained before).

Realize that a lot of the people going over to teach in Japan, Korea, and China; are usually college graduates. A lot of these grads don't have anything on their resume.

As for eikaiwa. Were you wanting to work part time? Like 20 hours a week or something? Keep in mind that most work visas actually have a "hours per week" requirement (which is usually tied to the annual salary requirement).

Are you collecting degrees or something? You make it sound like you have a couple of 4 year degrees and 1 MBA. Its none of my business, but this seems nuts unless you just like taking classes.

As I mentioned earlier. I grew up in a non English world as an Anglo. If I go into Japan with no Japanese I'll probably end up getting seduced by the Gaijin Bubble and leaving with none. This based on my personal history, it happens often enough and I know it would be too tempting to go the same way. It isn't what I want. I'd rather wait. If I can't get my Japanese up to a reasonable I don't think I'd bother. There are also other issues aside from weight and language that make it undesirable to leave right now. Hell if I wanted to go that route, I'd try to find something in India. It might be a third world cess pit [the opinion of one very proud Indian I know] but English is common among the educated sort at a pretty high level, they have the need for people from what I hear at call centers and my income would carry much further there than here. Also if I were dropped into a country, I'd rather take my chances with Hindi than Japanese with the Kanji.

Being a collage grad with an empty resume is one thing [but really no interesting summer jobs either?], having done nothing at your level in 10 or 20 years after is another. I suppose if you majored in something useless like basket weaving then I suppose you get a pass. OTOH if they don't ask too many questions, the work I do for my brother sounds better than it is. I've run Trivia games, worked with databases of questions, even programmed myself out of sorting out winners of a weekly game. However I hate to lie and any sort of probing questions and I am toast. I've gone years without doing anything.

I'd prefer part time if it were possible. But if it is not, it is not.

As for my degree situation, 3 undergrad majors, 2 degrees. [My join major was done back to back not as a joint degree] as well as a few false starts in other fields. Not really by choice, but tuition is cheap, most of it was done while living at home, it's easy for me and nothing really grabbed me. Every time I started something I wasn't planning on switching to something else after I was done, it just worked that way.

Dudeist Wrote:As I mentioned earlier. I grew up in a non English world as an Anglo. If I go into Japan with no Japanese I'll probably end up getting seduced by the Gaijin Bubble and leaving with none.

This could happen in a large city like Tokyo or Osaka, but in smaller towns, there maybe only be 2-3 other foreigners and that's it (and thats if you are lucky).

Quote:I've run Trivia games, worked with databases of questions, even programmed myself out of sorting out winners of a weekly game.

This is still experience doing something. The problem is how you spin it. I think most jobs don't entail doing something super complicated, or they do, but people doing the job don't ever believe it has any merits. So they downplay the skills they used on the job.

All this said, I still don't see any objective reason why you couldn't go. The problem is that where you are now, from reading your posts, I think you'd have a hard time convincing interviewers because I think your lack of confidence in the whole idea will show through. They'll see it as a red flag and probably stop it there because they will be worried you'll freak out over culture shock and go home.

Even if you live smack in the middle of Tokyo nobody's forcing you to exist in an expat bubble. That's a choice people make.

Zgarbas Wrote:Every time I see someone becoming an English teacher Just because they want to go to Japan but have no real interest or ability to teach I feel the need to beg them not to, because disinteres teachers are a terrible thing to have. I don't understand why English teaching has become a conbini-level job, when it is such an important factor in the formation of a student's life...

This times 1000....

(2015-10-31, 3:51 am)ktcgx Wrote:

Zgarbas Wrote:Every time I see someone becoming an English teacher Just because they want to go to Japan but have no real interest or ability to teach I feel the need to beg them not to, because disinteres teachers are a terrible thing to have. I don't understand why English teaching has become a conbini-level job, when it is such an important factor in the formation of a student's life...

This times 1000....

So true.

Given the Japanese perfectionism in a other areas, it makes me wonder why they often have shoddy English programs...

EDIT:
Does anyone know any JET Program CIRs (Coordinator for International Relations) from the US? Or any CIRs in general. I want to hear more about their experiences. Unlike JET Assistant Language Teachers, CIRs actually have to know Japanese. Anyway just wanted to hear if anyone knows any CIRs or heard any stories about the position. Thanks