SomeCallMeChris Wrote:I managed to fail a first semester course in Spanish once, supposedly an 'easy' language. (Knowing more about language learning now I have my doubts that languages differ that much in 'ease' unless they are very closely related to one's native language.)

That's exactly what the term "difficulty" refers to when it comes to language learning – the farther a language is from the ones you already know, the harder it would be to achieve proficiency in it if you applied the same amount of effort, with the same quality, into both (quality referring to the materials being used, methods, environment, etc.)

So in practice, even if Japanese is harder than Spanish in that regard for people here, that doesn't mean it would take longer for a specific person to learn Japanese. For example, for those whose base language is English:

eng ---------- spa
eng ---------------------------------------------------------- jpn

(this proportion is loosely based on Glossika's Rank of Language Difficulty, which doesn't take the writing systems into account.) So Japanese is, for this comparison, 5.8 times farther away from English than Spanish, therefore it is much harder for an average English speaker to achieve proficiency in Japanese than in Spanish. It definitely doesn't mean that it would take you, in specific, 5.8 times longer to achieve proficiency in Japanese than in Spanish because you could, for example, just run faster and work more diligently to get to the Japanese goalpost than to the Spanish one due to your circumstances, which was what you did. That's why some people say they have learned more Japanese in 1 year than Spanish in 5.

gdaxeman Wrote:Glossika's Rank of Language Difficulty, which doesn't take the writing systems into account.

I find it hard to imagine that there is any language harder to read than Japanese.

OK so Arabic omits vowels, but Japanese omits everything and gives you a little picture

CreepyAF Wrote:Are You An Above Average Language Learner?

Above average at everything and brilliant at nothing.

I think it's safe to say that anyone who attains a degree of proficiency in Japanese is above average in some respect, if only in sheer bloody-minded tenacity.

I guess to some extent, the fact that most people here see themselves as average or below is a testament to the way cultural values can be transmitted through language. Heck, I'm far from a braggart in English, but even I've noticed I'm more humble and self-effacing in Japanese.

But, to an extent, I think the fact that this forum is a form of recreation for the users here says a lot. There are plenty of people nerdy enough to learn Japanese. But are they nerdy enough to get on a forum about learning Japanese, swap Anki war stories like it's 'Nam, and then try and find ways to make their study routines more efficient? We're like the creme of the nerd crop. And that's a good thing!

While in terms of ability, I can't say I'm above average, I can say I'm a good deal more passionate about the language than some. Language has always made me happy in more ways than I can count, and Japanese is like a never-ending goody bag of fascinating words, aesthetic appeal and tantalizing nuances impossible to capture in English. Truth be told, I've found I'm at my happiest when I'm doing something with Japanese, and even though Anki reviews can get a bit boring sometimes, it's taught me the discipline I need for a whole slew of other things in my life.

That being said, I've always had the firm belief that you can learn to do just about anything so long as you put forth the time and effort necessary. Failure, as SomeCallMeChris mentioned, is a factor in a lot of people's learning, and I'll be the first to admit that making a stupid mistake in the language when I knew better can prompt a lot of negative thought on my part. Still, there comes a point when you realize that you CAN become fluent if you're willing to swallow failure and slow progress. Being the perfectionist that I am, making mistakes absolutely kills me, but I'm learning to roll with the tide and adopt a "live and learn" attitude with the language. As far as slow progress goes, well, that can be just as frustrating, but thankfully, I've found that habit is the best solution for this. For instance, I'm reading a Japanese novel for my thesis, and while at first reading 5 pages a day felt like a struggle, by doing that every day, I've now been able to pull off days where I read 20 pages or more in a reasonable amount of time.