I am closing in the 550 mark for Kanji [25% yay!]

Also I gave up on my plans for French so the day is coming up soon when RTK will be done and it will be time to enter proper language study.

So I am thinking next step. I have some questions.

Being the anal sort of guy I am, I like to have a clear roadmap ahead for into future.

Also I have no other second language experience... well not after grade 8 back in 1983.

At first I was thinking of combining the text book series
Genki 1 and 2, Tobira and the New Authentic Japanese Progressing From Intermediate to Advanced.
With the Dictionary of * Japanese Grammar and finishing things off with the Kanzen Master stuff.
As well as tossing in the Japanesepod101 stuff, although it gets mixed reviews, all that dialog and vocab at slow and regular speeds seems useful.
Plus other things not really relevant to my questions.

However I am thinking

1: As I understand it, the Genkis come with 6 hours of audio including dialogues and vocab and the Tobira also comes with audio material available on line.
Would that be enough to not bother with the jpod101. I find it very useful to hear the vocab, and with about 1400 lessons and about 10 vocab per lesson, that seems like a whole lot of vocab even with repeats. OTOH hand if the texts have enough audio to get you going to the NHK easy/Erins Challange type stuff, why bother.
1a: I hear good and bad things about the jpod101, are the bad things just annoying and a few errors or are they things that would severely throw one off one's game. I have also heard from the perspective of multiple languages that the Xpod101 series isn't very good for complete beginners.

2: What is the best way to integrate the texts with the grammar texts. Side by side or one after the other.
When would be the best time to start the grammar texts, say the beginning with Genki 2, Intermediate with Tobira and Advanced with NAJ or perhaps the dictionaries after those texts, or is there some other better way to combine them.

The way to work through a textbook series is by starting at the beginning of the most basic volume in the set and progressing through it, using the audio that goes with each lesson. I don't see the point in using JPod concurrently with Genki, because they're not designed to be used together. You need to have some sort of logical structure to what you're trying to take in: there's no point in studying a particle complex particle like のことが or noun modification if you haven't learned particle は (the most basic particle) or the structure of a basic Japanese sentence.

Also, there are at least two pages of vocabulary (plus some additional vocabulary for passive learning, i.e. it's not intended to be memorized but it's used in the examples in the text) in each chapter of Genki, and the vocabulary you've learned in previous chapters continues to be used in subsequent ones. If you spend a week or two on each chapter, that's probably quite enough without adding a bunch of random vocab from JPod as well.

Bear in mind too that finishing RTK only means you can recognise one English keyword for each individual kanji, so along with grammar and vocabulary you will also have the task of learning how to read/pronounce and understand the kanji in context, which Genki covers at a rate of about 15 per chapter starting in chapter three.

Basically, I would caution against trying to do too much at the same time. If you can fully understand and absorb (you have memorised the vocabulary and grammar and kanji thoroughly, you can comprehend and produce the types of sentences covered both orally/aurally and in writing) each chapter of Genki in 1-2 weeks by studying on your own, you're doing well.

So if I am understanding you, the audio resources from Genki, Tobira and the KM listening should be enough at least to get me to an easy native material stage or at least roughly as well as the jpod101


To clear something up, I was never planning on doing the texts and jpod at the same time. More along the lines of doing jpod first then go through the texts to fill in the gaps.
However if it won't hurt too much, I'd rather skip the jpod.

Just a heads up if you're studying Genki I (and you're studying vocab/sentences in an SRS) I suggest you manually go over them and add kanji as you go. I don't know how I'd remember a word like 自動販売機 without them. I did Genki 1 before finishing RTK so now I have all these pronunciations that I don't have kanji with. I think it would've been better to use kanji while learning them the first time.

Also since RTK makes it a lot easier to remember kanji readings, I suggest you finish it before doing Genki at all.

Dudeist Wrote:So if I am understanding you, the audio resources from Genki, Tobira and the KM listening should be enough at least to get me to an easy native material stage or at least roughly as well as the jpod101

To clear something up, I was never planning on doing the texts and jpod at the same time. More along the lines of doing jpod first then go through the texts to fill in the gaps.
However if it won't hurt too much, I'd rather skip the jpod.

Why do you want to use three series? Why not just pick one?? Why do you always seem to want to make things so complicated?

Start with Genki I. Work through all the chapters of the textbook, working with the audio. When you're done, start Genki II, working the same way. Use A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar to help you understand the grammar presented in Genki. When you're done Genki II, move on to An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese, or whatever you've chosen. Work through that in the same way....

Finishing Genki I and II will allow you to read some native texts, maybe. By the end of Genki II you will have studied about 400 kanji, so bear that in mind. Also, you will inevitably be lacking vocabulary and expressions found even in texts for children. You can try to supplement your Genki study by reading News Web Easy, but even that will probably be too advanced for you until you've completed Genki 1. For extra listening practice you can watch subtitled movies, bearing in mind again that you'll still be lacking the vocabulary and grammar needed.

Also: relax. It's going to take time.

rainmaninjapan Wrote:Just a heads up if you're studying Genki I (and you're studying vocab/sentences in an SRS) I suggest you manually go over them and add kanji as you go. I don't know how I'd remember a word like 自動販売機 without them. I did Genki 1 before finishing RTK so now I have all these pronunciations that I don't have kanji with. I think it would've been better to use kanji while learning them the first time.

Also since RTK makes it a lot easier to remember kanji readings, I suggest you finish it before doing Genki at all.

I do plan on finishing RTK before doing anything else... or at least go as far as possible.

I don't really understand what you are suggesting in your first paragraphs, and I think I would like to.

James736 Wrote:Start with Genki I. Work through all the chapters of the textbook, working with the audio. When you're done, start Genki II, working the same way. Use A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar to help you understand the grammar presented in Genki. When you're done Genki II, move on to An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese, or whatever you've chosen. Work through that in the same way....

Finishing Genki I and II will allow you to read some native texts, maybe. By the end of Genki II you will have studied about 400 kanji, so bear that in mind. Also, you will inevitably be lacking vocabulary and expressions found even in texts for children. You can try to supplement your Genki study by reading News Web Easy, but even that will probably be too advanced for you until you've completed Genki 1. For extra listening practice you can watch subtitled movies, bearing in mind again that you'll still be lacking the vocabulary and grammar needed.

Also: relax. It's going to take time.

Would you recommend using the D*JG along side the texts or after each text of suitable level or perhaps going through all the 4 levels of text [G1.2 Tobira, New Authentic...] first then hitting the grammars perhaps along side native material.

Or is it the sort of thing that doesn't matter much. If it is all the same I think it would be easier on me to go through the texts first then the grammars. Then hit the KMs just before I try any JLPT of course.

I am inclined to delay native material as much as possible considering my temperament, but it will be a factor in the long run.

Dudeist Wrote:Would you recommend using the D*JG along side the texts or after each text of suitable level or perhaps going through all the 4 levels of text [G1.2 Tobira, New Authentic...] first then hitting the grammars perhaps along side native material.

Or is it the sort of thing that doesn't matter much. If it is all the same I think it would be easier on me to go through the texts first then the grammars. Then hit the KMs just before I try any JLPT of course.

I am inclined to delay native material as much as possible considering my temperament, but it will be a factor in the long run.

Use A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar to help you understand the grammar you're studying in Genki (or whichever series you choose), i.e., as a supplement, not as a stand-alone study tool.

James736 Wrote:Use A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar to help you understand the grammar you're studying in Genki (or whichever series you choose), i.e., as a supplement, not as a stand-alone study tool.

Ah, I misunderstood. I was under the impression that as far as the JLPTs go that there were many grammar points that you need that are in the text. The idea of going through a grammar text as a stand alone study tool did sound horrifying.

I was saying if you're inputting any sentences/vocab from Genki into anki, make sure to kanjify them (or use a premade deck, I've seen a shared one with every sentence in kanji I think.) Rather than learning them the way Genki wants you to, in just hiragana.

Dudeist Wrote:

James736 Wrote:Use A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar to help you understand the grammar you're studying in Genki (or whichever series you choose), i.e., as a supplement, not as a stand-alone study tool.

Ah, I misunderstood. I was under the impression that as far as the JLPTs go that there were many grammar points that you need that are in the text. The idea of going through a grammar text as a stand alone study tool did sound horrifying.

I don't think you mentioned that you were wanting to study for the JLPT. If so, you can find books specifically for that.

rainmaninjapan Wrote:I was saying if you're inputting any sentences/vocab from Genki into anki, make sure to kanjify them (or use a premade deck, I've seen a shared one with every sentence in kanji I think.) Rather than learning them the way Genki wants you to, in just hiragana.

Ah. Now I get you. I thought Genki did Kanji after the third chapter.

I have more questions regarding decks but that can wait till I am closer to being done with the RTK

James736 Wrote:I don't think you mentioned that you were wanting to study for the JLPT. If so, you can find books specifically for that.

Pretty sure I didn't. I figure if I am going to go through all this effort, might as well get some paper.

I am under the impression that when it comes to JLPT grammar that you need a combination of the dictionaries and something like Kanzen Master to cover everything. I am under a lot of impressions

Dudeist Wrote:

James736 Wrote:I don't think you mentioned that you were wanting to study for the JLPT. If so, you can find books specifically for that.

Pretty sure I didn't. I figure if I am going to go through all this effort, might as well get some paper.

I am under the impression that when it comes to JLPT grammar that you need a combination of the dictionaries and something like Kanzen Master to cover everything. I am under a lot of impressions

As I said, you can find books specifically for preparing for the JLPT.

Also, Genki does start kanji in Chapter Three.