(I am not studying for JLPT)
Thanks for all the support here.
It has been ~4 months since I last posted. Here are some of my posts and as evident by them, I was a confused beginner.
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=12475
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=12697 (And yes I gave in by using Japaneselevelup's decks, but it has paid off immensely)
I have tackled ~N3 grammar, made transition to J-J, have ~4200 words under my belt (3000 of which are solo J-J), can understand ~80-90% of shounen anime (Due to poor listening I use kitsunekko japanese subtitles ;_;, but getting there),reading Kaiji and Attack on Titan (and enjoying them a lot), finished Level 4 of Graded readers a month ago (To think Level 1 used to give me goosebumps), have "エンターの神様” as my new comedy fix, can enjoy Death Note but sometimes I get stuck (although RTK knowledge helps greatly for guessing many meanings), can chat with (atleast understand) real japanese people.
I cannot however understand 100% (with exception of yotsuba). It gets close to 99% but there is always 1 unknown word. News still a bit over my head, particularly interviews with people.
As you can see, I obviously cannot clear N1 or maybe even N2 (I tried reading some of the texts but failed
) or something like that (I started learning Japanese ~November 15 2014), but I'll still consider my progression up to now a success. Especiallt the graded reader part.
I was going through my old posts (and cringing like "did I really ask that. stupid me" and these are some advices in the comments that stood out to me, now. After 3 months. I don't know how/why I ignored/forgot them, but they would have been pretty helpful (If I had paid attention):
"As long as you learn your vocab by drilling sentences rather than just plain vocab drills, and you make sure to keep reading level appropriate materials while you study your vocab, grammar should not be a worry at all."
-----This is so accurate. Sentences>Vocabulary Alone 100%
"For example once you have ~3000-5000 words you can generally read most shounen manga (what he seems to be interested in) without much trouble."
-----I am currently feeling this. I mean I don't understand everything, like ranks, technique names without context, but enough for a painless read (80-90%)
"ALWAYS make sure you have time for native materiel in your study routine. Even if you can't find anything you can understand now, just get something you like that others tell you is easy enough to understand, and keep that materiel around you. One day, just like magic, it will suddenly make sense."
-----This happened to me with Yotsubato!. After ~1000 words, I started reading it. Painless, enjoyable and childlike. I finished 3 volumes in 1 day, then obviously got bored.
"You should initially spend more time studying and less time with native materials, and then gradually start spending more and more time with native materials and less and less time studying."
-----Exactly my progression.
"You can take your English deck and have the Anki add-on reorganise any j-j Deck to be as close to i+1 as possible. I did this with both my meaning and expression field for the one deck. "
-----Morphman-sama
"Using a children's J-J dictionary is a nice hack for learners trying to make J-J cards."
-----Agreed! But, in the beginning it's not really helpful because you don't know what anything means, but it's easier with branching, although many words are not included. In the end it's a bit useless because, let's face it, the definitions are a bit dumbed down. I prefer Goo dictionary. It is definitely helpful somewhere in between and I have it them a lot!
.....And here are some comments I DISAGREE to some extent. I am not criticizing anybody (I am not at a level to do so), just stating my disagreement:
"I think at any level, you can find native materiel to enjoy"
-----Partially true, but it took me atleast 1500 words to start enjoying stuff xD
"I personally wouldn't pay for JLVLUP decks because they cost as much as textbooks basically while being measly small packs of sentences. They're pretty good, but they're way way overpriced if you value your money. Buy some manga instead, or even better use the money to buy a children's J-J dictionary."
-----I disagree with this partly. (Sorry I am going to be a bit defensive. Read the following in Morgan Freeman's voice.). I wanted to go monolingual. I tired your idea and bought a volume of yotsubato and children's dictionary. It was not simple at first. Here is my experience: Branching is a tough process, and what words to include, exclude , common definitions to include etc. made my head spin. Many words were in hiragana so it was tough deciding which kanji and words to add without checking English definition. 性格 or 正確?
I had heard about people doing CORE 2K , THEN making transition to J-J and said, screw it, I'll save J-J for later. But I decided to buy the decks anyway (the $260 bundle of 4000 cards).I was ready to make journey into J-J with just N4 level grammar. The first 100 cards were tough, but it was a pretty smooth ride afterwards. I also noticed that my ability improved drastically because I started spending all of my time in Japanese. Japanese definitions use Japanese words so it's kind of a review. Although I agree the stages of decks are expensive, but bundles are comparatively and reasonably priced.
I'd argue Genki 1+2 is expensive since a clearly better alternative (Tae Kim. It's a GOD grammar guide for beginners and I highly recommend checking it out) exists. I cannot find alternative to JalUp decks. (tell me if it does. I tried Tanuki but it was too much of a hassel at my previous level).
"There is no simple answer (for how many words to learn) because every case is different and depends on so many factors that it's barely worth even discussing. I'd wager that if you stick with studying Japanese you'll come to a point where you look back on the current you who asked this question and simply laugh"
-----This is 90% correct, but I really feel like giving someone goal of 5000 words or so for shounen anime is better than saying "Everyone is different. I can't help you". And it works. But it also depends on what kinds of words are being learned (common or obscure) you you are partially right. I have a goal of ~10,000 sentences (Ajatt) which motivates me.
The whole point of this long post was:
1. To advanced used I would like to thank you for your advice even if it took me a few months to understand them. I hope I will be able to reach your level
2. I want to say this to beginners: do not give up learning this awesome language.
皆頑張りましょう！
Thanks for all the support here.
It has been ~4 months since I last posted. Here are some of my posts and as evident by them, I was a confused beginner.
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=12475
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=12697 (And yes I gave in by using Japaneselevelup's decks, but it has paid off immensely)
I have tackled ~N3 grammar, made transition to J-J, have ~4200 words under my belt (3000 of which are solo J-J), can understand ~80-90% of shounen anime (Due to poor listening I use kitsunekko japanese subtitles ;_;, but getting there),reading Kaiji and Attack on Titan (and enjoying them a lot), finished Level 4 of Graded readers a month ago (To think Level 1 used to give me goosebumps), have "エンターの神様” as my new comedy fix, can enjoy Death Note but sometimes I get stuck (although RTK knowledge helps greatly for guessing many meanings), can chat with (atleast understand) real japanese people.
I cannot however understand 100% (with exception of yotsuba). It gets close to 99% but there is always 1 unknown word. News still a bit over my head, particularly interviews with people.
As you can see, I obviously cannot clear N1 or maybe even N2 (I tried reading some of the texts but failed
) or something like that (I started learning Japanese ~November 15 2014), but I'll still consider my progression up to now a success. Especiallt the graded reader part. I was going through my old posts (and cringing like "did I really ask that. stupid me" and these are some advices in the comments that stood out to me, now. After 3 months. I don't know how/why I ignored/forgot them, but they would have been pretty helpful (If I had paid attention):
"As long as you learn your vocab by drilling sentences rather than just plain vocab drills, and you make sure to keep reading level appropriate materials while you study your vocab, grammar should not be a worry at all."
-----This is so accurate. Sentences>Vocabulary Alone 100%
"For example once you have ~3000-5000 words you can generally read most shounen manga (what he seems to be interested in) without much trouble."
-----I am currently feeling this. I mean I don't understand everything, like ranks, technique names without context, but enough for a painless read (80-90%)
"ALWAYS make sure you have time for native materiel in your study routine. Even if you can't find anything you can understand now, just get something you like that others tell you is easy enough to understand, and keep that materiel around you. One day, just like magic, it will suddenly make sense."
-----This happened to me with Yotsubato!. After ~1000 words, I started reading it. Painless, enjoyable and childlike. I finished 3 volumes in 1 day, then obviously got bored.
"You should initially spend more time studying and less time with native materials, and then gradually start spending more and more time with native materials and less and less time studying."
-----Exactly my progression.
"You can take your English deck and have the Anki add-on reorganise any j-j Deck to be as close to i+1 as possible. I did this with both my meaning and expression field for the one deck. "
-----Morphman-sama
"Using a children's J-J dictionary is a nice hack for learners trying to make J-J cards."
-----Agreed! But, in the beginning it's not really helpful because you don't know what anything means, but it's easier with branching, although many words are not included. In the end it's a bit useless because, let's face it, the definitions are a bit dumbed down. I prefer Goo dictionary. It is definitely helpful somewhere in between and I have it them a lot!
.....And here are some comments I DISAGREE to some extent. I am not criticizing anybody (I am not at a level to do so), just stating my disagreement:
"I think at any level, you can find native materiel to enjoy"
-----Partially true, but it took me atleast 1500 words to start enjoying stuff xD
"I personally wouldn't pay for JLVLUP decks because they cost as much as textbooks basically while being measly small packs of sentences. They're pretty good, but they're way way overpriced if you value your money. Buy some manga instead, or even better use the money to buy a children's J-J dictionary."
-----I disagree with this partly. (Sorry I am going to be a bit defensive. Read the following in Morgan Freeman's voice.). I wanted to go monolingual. I tired your idea and bought a volume of yotsubato and children's dictionary. It was not simple at first. Here is my experience: Branching is a tough process, and what words to include, exclude , common definitions to include etc. made my head spin. Many words were in hiragana so it was tough deciding which kanji and words to add without checking English definition. 性格 or 正確?
I had heard about people doing CORE 2K , THEN making transition to J-J and said, screw it, I'll save J-J for later. But I decided to buy the decks anyway (the $260 bundle of 4000 cards).I was ready to make journey into J-J with just N4 level grammar. The first 100 cards were tough, but it was a pretty smooth ride afterwards. I also noticed that my ability improved drastically because I started spending all of my time in Japanese. Japanese definitions use Japanese words so it's kind of a review. Although I agree the stages of decks are expensive, but bundles are comparatively and reasonably priced.
I'd argue Genki 1+2 is expensive since a clearly better alternative (Tae Kim. It's a GOD grammar guide for beginners and I highly recommend checking it out) exists. I cannot find alternative to JalUp decks. (tell me if it does. I tried Tanuki but it was too much of a hassel at my previous level).
"There is no simple answer (for how many words to learn) because every case is different and depends on so many factors that it's barely worth even discussing. I'd wager that if you stick with studying Japanese you'll come to a point where you look back on the current you who asked this question and simply laugh"
-----This is 90% correct, but I really feel like giving someone goal of 5000 words or so for shounen anime is better than saying "Everyone is different. I can't help you". And it works. But it also depends on what kinds of words are being learned (common or obscure) you you are partially right. I have a goal of ~10,000 sentences (Ajatt) which motivates me.
The whole point of this long post was:
1. To advanced used I would like to thank you for your advice even if it took me a few months to understand them. I hope I will be able to reach your level
2. I want to say this to beginners: do not give up learning this awesome language.
皆頑張りましょう！
Edited: 2015-08-19, 9:15 pm
:-
. Anyways, this is probably the last update (regarding the number of cards) on this post.
