Way back in my early days of SRS, I found something peculiar going on with my learning habits.

I noticed that if the first encounter I had with some new vocab was in Surusu (the SRS I was using at the time), my recognition of it would rapidly decay after the first few reviews. In order to actually learn new content, I had to have already committed it to short term memory before even making it into a card.

This made sense. I assumed this was what everyone was doing. However, with all the pre-made Anki decks available, it seems like people are learning new vocab straight out of Anki.

Granted when virtually everything is new, like my newbie phase, this would pose as a bigger issue. But even so, do you require prior knowledge of Japanese content before you can review it? Or do you use your SRS only for reviewing anyway? What is the relationship between you, new words/phrases/vocab, and Anki?

I've learned everything I know about japanese almost exclusively from anki. I just set a lot of learning steps and set the ease to 130 and my recall gets better the older a card is. This month my young/learn/mature accuracy is 86%/90%/95%.

For most words, learning them from Anki was fine, but they usually only solidify after I've seen them in context a few times.

For some words, though, I'd learn them in Anki, easily remember them due to the kanji they used, and then after a few months, they'd become really difficult or I'd forget them completely. Perhaps it's because I considered them to be easy, which may have affected how intensely the memory was recorded.

And while most of the things I've learned outside of Anki stick easily (especially since I ran into them in Core10k eventually), there are some words that I've encountered time and time again that just won't stick. I don't even have a guess as to why.
These are the outliers, though.

I tried anki and hated it so I don't use it.

CreepyAF -

I found that I need to separate the learning process into two distinct steps: memorization & review. For me, that generally means rote memorizing kanji/vocab/concept... then reviewing flashcards periodically over the future days/weeks/months.

For me, just seeing new random flash cards (like Rosetta Stone or Core x,000 via Anki) and reviewing them over and over does not "stick." I need to really learn & memorize the item first. And it helps if grammar is in context (e.g. a few examples on the same page to nail the concept). One way to do that could be to use cram mode in Anki or print out the items. I learn better for some reason with paper. I found a good textbook worked best for me.

Also, I found memorizing vocabulary (meaning, reading, writing kanji) to be a breeze, but memorizing RTK was very challenging. That may be due to the RTK's imaginative/visual focus.

Regardless, I keep hammering out RTK reviews daily. Even though my mature retention %'s are lower than I would like, I feel that RTK is really helping me ramp up every aspect of my Japanese; turbo-charged learning. The kanji is becoming very intuitive in the wild.

scooter1 Wrote:One way to do that could be to use cram mode in Anki or print out the items.

If you add more learning steps, you don't need to do any special cramming. The default learning intervals are 1 10 which are not even close to enough for learning vocabulary. Something like 0.5 3 15 60 180 540 1440 will make your life much improved.

scooter1 Wrote:Also, I found memorizing vocabulary (meaning, reading, writing kanji) to be a breeze, but memorizing RTK was very challenging. That may be due to the RTK's imaginative/visual focus.

I've heard this for other people as well. I find kanji much easier to learn initially, but as the intervals increase, my accuracy goes down. It seems kanji are just different.

yogert909 Wrote:

scooter1 Wrote:One way to do that could be to use cram mode in Anki or print out the items.

If you add more learning steps, you don't need to do any special cramming. The default learning intervals are 1 10 which are not even close to enough for learning vocabulary. Something like 0.5 3 15 60 180 540 1440 will make your life much improved.

I only did this just recently (at yogert909's suggestion), and it's ridiculously helpful. I feel like I've been using Anki wrong all these years.

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:

yogert909 Wrote:

scooter1 Wrote:One way to do that could be to use cram mode in Anki or print out the items.

If you add more learning steps, you don't need to do any special cramming. The default learning intervals are 1 10 which are not even close to enough for learning vocabulary. Something like 0.5 3 15 60 180 540 1440 will make your life much improved.

I only did this just recently (at yogert909's suggestion), and it's ridiculously helpful. I feel like I've been using Anki wrong all these years.

It seems like new content in my Anki decks will appear twice in my reviewing session, once near the beginning, then a few minutes later. After that, it's gone until the next day. Does setting the interval like that mean the card will be reviewed several times over the course of the first day, likely spaced a couple times outside my reviewing session?

(Sorry if this is considered a technical question.)

CreepyAF Wrote:

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:

yogert909 Wrote:If you add more learning steps, you don't need to do any special cramming. The default learning intervals are 1 10 which are not even close to enough for learning vocabulary. Something like 0.5 3 15 60 180 540 1440 will make your life much improved.

I only did this just recently (at yogert909's suggestion), and it's ridiculously helpful. I feel like I've been using Anki wrong all these years.

It seems like new content in my Anki decks will appear twice in my reviewing session, once near the beginning, then a few minutes later. After that, it's gone until the next day. Does setting the interval like that mean the card will be reviewed several times over the course of the first day, likely spaced a couple times outside my reviewing session?

(Sorry if this is considered a technical question.)

In Anki (IIRC v2.0+ only) there is an option for new cards where you can set the steps before the card 'graduates' (and to what interval the card should graduate to); default is 1 10, graduating to 1 day. The steps are in minutes. After cards graduate, they are governed by the regular interval system (which you can also modify).

I usually do three or four steps, depending on my study habits at the time, with 1 5 10 (120); I still have them graduate to one day, because I start to forget by then. I'm much harsher with my 'learning' reviews than my other reviews, though, so three steps is plenty; the 120 was for when I was adding cards during the day.
I normally review and add cards at night, right before I go to sleep; I've found it to be the best time to add vocabulary.

The thing is, the more steps you add, the longer it takes to get through one days work, which is why I don't use as many as yogert909 and gaiaslastlaugh: I don't like spending more than an hour in Anki.

I have a stupid question. I've gone through the help files and they are a bit confusing and very long so please forgive me.

I have anki installed but haven't really played around with it yet.

1: I could have sworn that I read somewhere that when the card graduates you see it by default in 4 days, is it really 1.
2: How do those learning intervals work. Let us suppose that you pick up a lot of new cards a day and you are set for 1 10, if you are still have new cards will anki put in a card you should be reviewing at the 10 minute mark?
3: If during the learning intervals you mark the card as not known and keep doing so [or hard or whatever] I assume it doesn't graduate?
4: If lets say when you get a new character/word/whatever you have your own preferences for learning it, perhaps writing it out 10 times and another 10 times later that day, is there any need for an ornate learning interval system.
5: If one were to set intervals of say 1 minute, 3 hours and 6 hours and after initial exposure you next hit Anki in 7 hours what happens to the intervals, do you do your 3 hour review at the 7 hour mark and your 6 hour review in the 10th or 13th hour.

I've read stuff about adjusting the settings for your preferred retention rates, what is the anki default and how would you set it higher [or lower]

Dudeist Wrote:I have a stupid question. I've gone through the help files and they are a bit confusing and very long so please forgive me.

I have anki installed but haven't really played around with it yet.

1: I could have sworn that I read somewhere that when the card graduates you see it by default in 4 days, is it really 1.
2: How do those learning intervals work. Let us suppose that you pick up a lot of new cards a day and you are set for 1 10, if you are still have new cards will anki put in a card you should be reviewing at the 10 minute mark?
3: If during the learning intervals you mark the card as not known and keep doing so [or hard or whatever] I assume it doesn't graduate?
4: If lets say when you get a new character/word/whatever you have your own preferences for learning it, perhaps writing it out 10 times and another 10 times later that day, is there any need for an ornate learning interval system.
5: If one were to set intervals of say 1 minute, 3 hours and 6 hours and after initial exposure you next hit Anki in 7 hours what happens to the intervals, do you do your 3 hour review at the 7 hour mark and your 6 hour review in the 10th or 13th hour.

I've read stuff about adjusting the settings for your preferred retention rates, what is the anki default and how would you set it higher [or lower]

Short answers:

1.) If you answer 'good', it'll go to one day, by default; if you hit 'easy', it'll go to four days.
2.) The learning intervals are set, however, there is an option that governs how much lenience there is with the reviews; I'm fairly sure it defaults to 10 minutes, so you'll immediately be able to review things that are supposed to appear within 10 minutes. With the default system, this means you can go through all of the learning intervals without actually making it that far.
3.) You shouldn't have a 'hard' option; no, it won't graduate, but it shouldn't if you don't know it.
4.) No, this feature was only added because people that prefer studying in Anki wanted it. If you're using Anki for review only, you can set it to work like it always has.
5.) Yes; the learning intervals are absolute, unlike the regular ones. The next interval isn't started until the previous one is completed.

6.) I'm not familiar enough with these options to talk about them off the top of my head.

sholum Wrote:I've read stuff about adjusting the settings for your preferred retention rates, what is the anki default and how would you set it higher [or lower]

You're probably talking about the interval multiplier. I would leave this set at it's default setting of 100. Otherwise you get strange interval values. It is much better to set your learning intervals and starting ease to reasonable values from the outset. The default for those two values is much to difficult for learning new vocabulary and kanji. More reasonable learning intervals would be something like 0.5 3 15 60 180 540 1440 and a good starting ease would be 130 - adjust these values to taste.

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:

yogert909 Wrote:If you add more learning steps, you don't need to do any special cramming. The default learning intervals are 1 10 which are not even close to enough for learning vocabulary. Something like 0.5 3 15 60 180 540 1440 will make your life much improved.

I only did this just recently (at yogert909's suggestion), and it's ridiculously helpful. I feel like I've been using Anki wrong all these years.

This makes me very happy I was of some help. I just wish it could have been sooner.

sholum Wrote:The thing is, the more steps you add, the longer it takes to get through one days work, which is why I don't use as many as yogert909 and gaiaslastlaugh: I don't like spending more than an hour in Anki.

Totally agree. I target a certain percentage accuracy, so if my accuracy gets better than my target, I use less intervals. I've been targeting a rather high accuracy these days just because it makes me feel better about the process. But one thing that has to be be said is that more learning intervals doesn't add as much work as it might seem because it means I am failing less cards so there is less relearning. But I agree that accuracy over 80-85% is getting less efficient overall.

That was it, accuracy, how do you manipulate that?

edit:
Another question, I don't need to know how at this point but is it possible to force a particular card to the front of the line as a new card for the day.
For example suppose your textbook or just some native material has a section on awesomeness so you encounter for the first time words like awesome, cats, and bacon. One would now doubt having learned these new words want to shove them into the brain and start reviewing them as opposed to having to wait months while anki throws new words from say a 10K deck which you have not seen in the wild yet. I assume this is possible, to mark a card as priority so it shows up as a new card asap.

Dudeist Wrote:That was it, accuracy, how do you manipulate that?

edit:
Another question, I don't need to know how at this point but is it possible to force a particular card to the front of the line as a new card for the day.
For example suppose your textbook or just some native material has a section on awesomeness so you encounter for the first time words like awesome, cats, and bacon. One would now doubt having learned these new words want to shove them into the brain and start reviewing them as opposed to having to wait months while anki throws new words from say a 10K deck which you have not seen in the wild yet. I assume this is possible, to mark a card as priority so it shows up as a new card asap.

You can increase your accuracy by reviewing the card more often(or less often to decrease your accuracy). Of course better accuracy means more reviews, so it's best to find a good balance. According to the supermemo theory page, the most efficient range is between 70-80%. There are two variables that controls how often you see a card. When the card is brand new, the number of learning steps controls how often you'll see a card, and once it's "graduated" the last learning interval, the starting ease controls it's intervals. The ease is just a percentage that the interval is multiplied by if you press "good" for the card. So, an ease of 200 means that the interval is doubled every time you press "good".

For your second question, look into the reposition option in the desktop app.

I assume from the reposition link that if you get a RTK based deck that the cards would come the same order that the book has them in.


Thanks for all the answers.

This thread has completely become derailed, lol.

I just want to say thanks to Yogert909 and Gaiaslastlaugh for the suggestion of changing the default interval. For the last couple days I've been reviewing new cards with 1, 3, 10, 120, and something just feels right about it. I could probably use even more intervals, but this is good for now.