I finished RTk Vol1 some weeks ago and now I am trying Trinity, which is great. I have been studying japanese for almost 6 years, and I also study english and language learning in general at university. I will graduate this year.

I have been thinking if it is possible to use RTK, or the "component analysis" in a class room model. I know here in Brazil, if you take japanese as your main curse at university, they dont teach you kanji! You just have to learn by your self! Of course they teach you some kanji, but aparently there is not any kind of "special aproach" to kanji, like RTK, Kanji Chains, Component Analisys, etc.

I dont know anybody studying japanese at university, but I would like to know just to ask what they know about kanji and methods of studying kanji like RTK.

Not only university japanese students seems to dont know RTK, japanese teacher usually have absolutly no idea about the method. Maybe because most part of the actual japanese teacher learned japanese not studing systematically, but just because their parentes are japanese, because they were born in japan, etc.

Maybe that's why a lot of students learn japanese studying in their own, while lots of others japanese students take classes and just do not learn, always doing the same mistakes, always writing down the same characters thousands and thousands of time, without anyone to say "it is waste of time", and with a teacher saying "kanji is impossible for gaijin, just learn the basic survival kanji...".

Unfortunately the number of japanese students inside class rooms is much greater than the students studying on their own, so I was thinking: is ti possible to apply Heisig methodology in a class room model? Of course It should not be a short-term course, but as long as we have another long-term language courses (here in Brazil english language courses takes at least 4 years), we can have a long-term japanese course. For example, university students can spend the first years doing Heisig and then more 3 studying "real japanese"!

Of course working on RTK will not be like a regular class room, but maybe students can work in a kind of "study groups", similar to this website. Anyway, I just want to hear what you guys think about it!

See you
and sorry for any english mistakes.

Isn't there a class going on at the University of Alaska-Anchorage? I think they've been posting here and there. I'd be interested to see how it's going.

I wonder if you couldn't just approach kanji as a "lab" course that you take with Japanese. So you'd have in-class lectures, and then a once-a-week "lab" section that meets for an hour or so where you work on kanji. Sort of keep people on track with RTK and find ways to make it useful/interesting... or just use it as a way to keep students working on it. Then as they progress to higher levels of Japanese, use the lab sections to work on on/kunyomi. If you have 2 semesters of 16-18 weeks per year, you could easily finish RTK by the end of the second semester. Then in the second year/3rd and 4th semesters, you could focus on on/kunyomi.

The tricky bit would be finding texts that would integrate well with RTK. For the majority of the first year, you'd have to be very limited in your use of kanji in class. I dunno, maybe focus on speaking and grammar instead, and worry about vocab later? Hmm... tricky...

Of course, what I'd do (if I was doing it all over again) is just do RTK first, then take Japanese. (And blow the teachers' minds... )

[Katsuo]

rich_f Wrote:Isn't there a class going on at the University of Alaska-Anchorage? I think they've been posting here and there.

The main relevant thread is here, but there's been no posts recently (on that thread). From the members' list they seem to be on around 700 at present.

rich_f Wrote:I'd be interested to see how it's going.

Me too.

I was reading an article about Chinese Character Memorization and Literacy (Theoretical and Empirical Persectives...) by ? Richardson (I'm sorry I don't know the first name of the author or where I downloaded this from originally) discussing Heisig's book and method of learning Kanji. I thought it was peculiar that he/she said "the memory strategy principally discussed in this paper, which is almost certain to be unsuitable for the standard classroom..." and I was wondering why the writer would make that statement. Having seen the posts from Alaska I now am wondering even more why the Heisig idea of learning how not to forget the meaning and writing of the characters before going on to study the language does not get more consideration in a "standard classroom" as opposed to self directed learners. The paper even quotes Heisig himself as saying "that his strategy is not suitable for standard coursework." Is the key factor here the meaning of what is "standard?" Or has there been more research done that academics know about but is hard to find out about in the laypersons world without access to academic journals etc.?

I think the Alaska class is fascinating and I would really like to know more about it, how it's going for them, and whether there is more of this going on in the world and it is not publicized very much or maybe I just haven't heard about it.

P.S. Anybody know about this article by Richardson that I am referring to? I'm sorry but the article itself doesn't say much about the person who wrote it or when it was written (sometime after 2003).

There's a link to this article on RevTK Learn More page. Dr Timothy W Richardson it says. Perhaps with the full name you can find out more about him.

It is nice to know you guys here like the idea of using Heisig in a class room. Although Heisig fimself said RTK is not intended to a standard class room model, I think we have to think about what is this "standard". The Alaska Thread is great and I will contact the teacher who is using the method at university. It a good example of how we can use RTK in a japanese course.

I will graduate this year and I am thinking about apply for Monbukagakusho, I want to take a Master Degree in Japan, and make a research about methods os teaching and learning kanji. I was thinking of doing a research about the various methods of teaching kanji, but know I want to focus just in Heisg and better ways of using it. I also have been teaching basic japanese to some brazilian students. I have been doing "Minna no Nihongo" with some student, and also using Heisig with another ones. I teach a Brazilian girl who lives in Japan (teaching by internet!), we are doing heisig, but I have to translate and recreate the keywords and stories, since I teach in portuguese, not in english. We use Anki, so we can input portuguese words and portuguese stories, etc. This girls is going well,　about 60-80 kanji per week and we have a very good time together talking about the kanji, the stories, etc. In other hand, students using tradicional 教科書 like "Minna no Nihongo", although they are improving, it seems so... tradicional, slow, boring, etc. I think you all already know the way this kind of book works: "わたしblablablaです", "これは何ですか", "この本は。。。", and so... Most part is Hiragana, and the students have a hard time with kanji. Comparing my experiences teaching using a Heisig based method and a tradicional 教科書 method, I think Heisig really better if you think in a long-term course. Students using Heisg seems to have a strong base knowledge of kanji, which makes a big difference in the long-term run.

The problem know is how to use the method inside a class room with many students. Maybe it is not a problem, this site is a great example of how we can work together on RTK. In the same way we have this site, we can a have a group of 20 students working on Heisig, creating and sharing stories, usuing a SRS for testing and just having fun while learning the characters. One years is enough time to finish the Vol1, so a 4 years japanese course starting with Heisig for one years would be great! Also, in a class room model, students can study a bit of kanji history, writing styles, diferences between chinese and japanese kanji, etc. Anything related to kanji, so the class will not be just Heisig all the time.

Anyway, I will read morea about and try to talk to the Alaska University Teacher, hope I could do my master degree about Kanji, Heisig and teaching methods!