Hi, I'm looking for a Japanese book to practice my reading with, that I can borrow from my public library.

I did borrow one book but I don't like it because it's science fiction and right in the first chapter there's strange words that I couldn't find in my pocket dictionary but had to go online to figure out: e.g. なずな、参宿 (the first one is a "shepherd's purse", a type of plant, but at first I thought it meant a leather bag of some kind; the second is an astronomical term).

Can someone recommend some books written about everyday themes in everyday language (i.e., words will be found in any pocket dictionary) with simple straightforward plots that would be good to practice reading with? Something by a well know author who is popular enough that I might be able to find it in my public library? Something meant for adults though.

I'm not familiar enough with Japanese authors to know of any myself.

Thanks!

I am currently reading "Sensei no kaban" センセイの鞄　by Kawakami Hiromi (川上弘美) as my first "real" book in Japanese (actually on a Kindle paperwhite), and I am rather happy with it.
I have got the French translation (title translated to: "Les années douces"!), which I follow in parallel.
Of course, recommending books is always risky, since it depends so much on individual taste.

BTW: there is also a manga version, which I have not seen yet

john555 Wrote:the first one is a "shepherd's purse", a type of plant, but at first I thought it meant a leather bag of some kind

You misinterpreted the English definition? Did you just fail your own test of fluency?

Were なずな and 参宿 not guessable from context (at least as 'some kind of plant' and 'the third constellation')? There are many plants that end ~な (a reading of 菜), and 参宿 is one of the 二十八宿. I venture to suggest that a native adult reader would be fazed by neither.

I've got a paper pocket dictionary too (Oxford Japanese Minidictionary). It is of course completely useless to anyone who has gone much beyond the core6k. All the words in it would be known to any child.

So unfortunately I suspect that 'aimed at adults' and 'using only words known to any child' and 'available in my public library' may prove somewhat limiting, though I will be interested to see the suggestions

anotherjohn Wrote:there are many plants that end ~な (a reading of 菜)

This is an interesting point: you mean that, despite the fact that there exists a single kanji for なずな (薺), the final mora "な” may still be taken to mean "vegetable" (菜). So, whoever ascribed the above kanji to that plant deliberately chose not to use a two-kanji combination (what would have been the first one?) but rather to coin a specific character. Can we imagine the reason for doing so?.

anotherjohn Wrote:

john555 Wrote:the first one is a "shepherd's purse", a type of plant, but at first I thought it meant a leather bag of some kind

You misinterpreted the English definition? Did you just fail your own test of fluency?

I'm a native English speaker, but I've never heard of a plant called a "shepherd's purse". Maybe I should have? I don't know. I might ask some people I know if they've ever heard of a plant called a "shepherd's purse". I'm pretty sure they'll say they've never heard of it.

An example of what I consider a "simple" English book is "Jaws" by Peter Benchly. The last time I read it it was so fast it seemed like it took only a couple of hours to read. That's because the vocabulary is simple and the sentences are short and straightforward. They are not long and involved with nested subordinate clauses. Also the story/plot is very straightforward without annoying, confusing twists and long lists of characters you have to keep track of. (This is probably why the paperback sold >10 million copies).

As far as Japanese books are concerned, I guess since I'm still in the learning stage I should be open to fiction aimed at younger readers as well as adults.

Not sure why you're not open to fiction aimed at younger readers in general. I'd guess even Harry Potter has more 'literary merit' than Jaws.
If there's one thing that shits me, it's people dismissing something based on the target audience.

Anyway, consider きまぐれロボット by　星新一. It's science fiction but I doubt you'd hit any words not in a pocket dictionary - it was one of the first books I read in Japanese and I didn't find it very challenging back then. There's even separate versions for adults and children!
I didn't actually like it that much, but a lot of people seem to, so I guess there's a good chance you will and at least some chance of it being in the library.

Aikynaro Wrote:Not sure why you're not open to fiction aimed at younger readers in general. I'd guess even Harry Potter has more 'literary merit' than Jaws.
If there's one thing that shits me, it's people dismissing something based on the target audience.

Anyway, consider きまぐれロボット by　星新一. It's science fiction but I doubt you'd hit any words not in a pocket dictionary - it was one of the first books I read in Japanese and I didn't find it very challenging back then. There's even separate versions for adults and children!
I didn't actually like it that much, but a lot of people seem to, so I guess there's a good chance you will and at least some chance of it being in the library.

Thanks. My library has a book by 星新一 but it's reference (can't borrow it). They do have some Harry Potter books in Japanese. Maybe I'll try one of those.

What about this guy: Haruki Murakami? There's tons of copies of his books in my local library system. Is he "easy" or "hard"?

(e.g., in English "easy" is Ira Levin, Stephen King, etc. "hard" is say Joseph Conrad).

That wasn't actually a recommendation to read Harry Potter in Japanese :p I haven't tried it myself, but I gather it's pretty difficult unless you've read it in English already. Chock-full of made-up or bizarre fantasy words.

星新一 books are mostly flash fiction, so it might be worth your while to sit in the library and have a go at a few of the stories and see what you think.

Seeing I'm here posting, I'll throw out another name: 江戸川乱歩
He's very famous in Japan - wrote in the 1920s-1960s, so there's quite a few archaic words, but from the one book I've read of his the style and wording were very simple. In my version there were also footnotes that explained archaic words in plain Japanese or any cultural things that a modern reader might not get.
Maybe all those old textbooks you read will come in handy...

john555 Wrote:What about this guy: Haruki Murakami? There's tons of copies of his books in my local library system. Is he "easy" or "hard"?

Japanese people often ask "But isn't he hard to read?" when I say I like his books but the language he uses isn't that difficult. He likes to make the reader think sometimes and has some wacky sci-fi-esque bits in many of his books (maybe that's what confuses some people?) but I wouldn't say he's hard to read. However, people are very split over whether they like him or not so read at your own risk!

If you like mysteries, Higashino Keigo (東野圭吾) is quite popular in Japan and I found his books incredibly easy to read. You'll have to get used to the different vocabulary for the police investigations and such that take place but the books are quite easy and he's written a ton so if you like them you're set for a while.

jmignot Wrote:

anotherjohn Wrote:there are many plants that end ~な (a reading of 菜)

This is an interesting point: you mean that, despite the fact that there exists a single kanji for なずな (薺), the final mora "な” may still be taken to mean "vegetable" (菜). So, whoever ascribed the above kanji to that plant deliberately chose not to use a two-kanji combination (what would have been the first one?) but rather to coin a specific character. Can we imagine the reason for doing so?.

Probably because the character represented the plant in Chinese.

There are many native Japanese words which have a single kanji assigned to it when it could have been written with multiple kanji following the etymology. 湖, 港, 承る, and 弄ぶ are reasonably common examples, but names of plants and animals will often follow this practice. You also get situations where two kanji are used for a word for no real purpose, just because that's how the word was written in Chinese (蟋蟀 is an example).

Quote:(e.g., in English "easy" is Ira Levin, Stephen King, etc. "hard" is say Joseph Conrad).

What makes a book easy or hard isn't necessarily the same in your native language as it is in a foreign language you're learning. I can imagine Stephen King being quite difficult for a foreign learner because of the frequent use of colloquial and slang speech, the length of the books, pop culture references, sometimes semi-stream of consciousness writing, and such.

Here's the first paragraph of "The Stand" (not counting the prologue):
"Hapscomb's Texaco sat on Number 93 just north of Arnette, a pissant fourstreet burg about 110 miles from Houston. Tonight the regulars were there, sitting by the cash register, drinking beer, talking idly, watching the bugs fly into the big lighted sign."

I think the above could pose a challenge for even a relatively advanced ESL learner who hasn't lived in the US for a while. Even a native English speaker who isn't an American might not fully grasp what's being evoked here, but it will be obvious to any American who has driven around the rural areas of any state.

john555 Wrote:I might ask some people I know if they've ever heard of a plant called a "shepherd's purse". I'm pretty sure they'll say they've never heard of it.

Ask if they think it's more likely to be a kind of purse, or a kind of plant

john555 Wrote:... right in the first chapter there's strange words that I couldn't find in my pocket dictionary ...

I'm currently reading through ゼロの使い魔, a generic low-brow series aimed at hormonally overactive teens.

Virtually every chapter has at least one word that's not even in Edict, let alone a pocket dictionary. Coping with such difficulties is a fundamental part of the process.

Weren't you going on a few months back about how old books and grammar-translation are better because "no one wants to do hard work these days" or something like that?

And now, you're complaining about doing dictionary look ups?

In any case, if you want actual literature, I didn't find Natsume Soseki to be overly difficult.

If you are ok with stuff aimed at younger readers, find the 角川文庫 version of "時をかける少女". It's aimed at late elementary school students, so like 11-12, but it's relatively well known, and it has 振り仮名 for easy vocab look up.

yudantaiteki Wrote:Probably because the character represented the plant in Chinese.

There are many native Japanese words which have a single kanji assigned to it when it could have been written with multiple kanji following the etymology. 湖, 港, 承る, and 弄ぶ are reasonably common examples, but names of plants and animals will often follow this practice. You also get situations where two kanji are used for a word for no real purpose, just because that's how the word was written in Chinese (蟋蟀 is an example).

Thank you for this detailed explanation. I had never thought about that but, as you put it, it makes perfect sense to me.

I think you may find that a pocket dictionary just isn't enough to deal with native material. It should be enough to get a basic understanding of beginner/intermediate level material but you may be asking too much if you want any confidence the word you're looking up is going to be in the dictionary.

That being said I think Higashino Keigo is a good recommendation since he's by far the easiest author I've read. A tip for dealing with crime fiction is that characters often hold meetings where they sum up the plot so far and lay out plans for what they're going to do next. If you're feeling lost these can be really good sections to focus on to make the rest of the book much easier to understand. (edit: Though these sections can lean more towards specialised vocab so if you don't have a way to look that up this may be bad advice.)

Aikynaro Wrote:That wasn't actually a recommendation to read Harry Potter in Japanese :p I haven't tried it myself, but I gather it's pretty difficult unless you've read it in English already. Chock-full of made-up or bizarre fantasy words.

It's not really that difficult, judging by the first chapter of the first book, but I haven't seen how the translator dealt with all the wizardly things and 'explanations', yet. So far though, sentences are especially easy due to the generous amount of punctuation (sentences are nearly one-to-one with English). The vocabulary isn't bad either; so far, it's easier than vocabulary in any fantasy LN I've tried to read, but that makes sense, since the first book is intended for a younger audience.

I imagine it gets more difficult with each book, as it does in English; if that's the case, the first three should be a piece of cake compared to any LNs or adult fiction.

yudantaiteki Wrote:What makes a book easy or hard isn't necessarily the same in your native language as it is in a foreign language you're learning. I can imagine Stephen King being quite difficult for a foreign learner because of the frequent use of colloquial and slang speech, the length of the books, pop culture references, sometimes semi-stream of consciousness writing, and such.

Here's the first paragraph of "The Stand" (not counting the prologue):
"Hapscomb's Texaco sat on Number 93 just north of Arnette, a pissant fourstreet burg about 110 miles from Houston. Tonight the regulars were there, sitting by the cash register, drinking beer, talking idly, watching the bugs fly into the big lighted sign."

I think the above could pose a challenge for even a relatively advanced ESL learner who hasn't lived in the US for a while. Even a native English speaker who isn't an American might not fully grasp what's being evoked here, but it will be obvious to any American who has driven around the rural areas of any state.

It's funny, I've read that passage from Stephen King many times since The Stand came out when I was a teenager, and I never precisely knew what the word "pissant" means. I always kind of skipped over that word in that sentence. I always just assumed from the context that "pissant" means "dreadful" or boring or something in a general way. I think King uses the word "pissant" in other books, but I don't recall reading that word in any other author's works.

Finally today I looked up "pissant" in the dictionary just to see...I wasn't too far off. Not sure I believe the origin of the word though (according to this dictionary): http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pissant

That's the joy of being a native speaker - you can pretty just skim over things/make it up and be probably about right.

One of my students decided to try reading Harry Potter in English and told me it was crazy-difficult. I had a look at the sample on Amazon and yeah ... for a non-native English speaker who hasn't gone out of their way to gobble up thousands of words, it's crazy-difficult. I can easily imagine it's easier in Japanese translation than it is in the native English though.