Yeah, there was a 'post-' missing there (and now that I think about it that also would've been a bit ambiguous). Thanks for noticing
2015-05-16, 8:01 am
@Zgarbas
The people I've had these conversations with are by and large women in their 40s-60s (the demographic that takes English lessons), so I am most definitely hanging out with the wrong crowd. It's probably wrong for me to project the flat rejection of feminism etc. that I encounter here on the whole population of Japan, but at the very least I'd expect it to be the group that has the strongest positive opinion on feminism.
Was women's lib in the 70s really huge in Japan? That would really surprise me. I had at first naturally assumed that like in Western countries there would have been a strong feminist movement in the 70s here but I just haven't seen any evidence for one in the views of the people I've talked to who lived through it. Might not mean anything, but it was pretty surprising to me - bit of a culture shock, actually.
... but yeah, I really need to find some more interesting people to talk to.
The people I've had these conversations with are by and large women in their 40s-60s (the demographic that takes English lessons), so I am most definitely hanging out with the wrong crowd. It's probably wrong for me to project the flat rejection of feminism etc. that I encounter here on the whole population of Japan, but at the very least I'd expect it to be the group that has the strongest positive opinion on feminism.
Was women's lib in the 70s really huge in Japan? That would really surprise me. I had at first naturally assumed that like in Western countries there would have been a strong feminist movement in the 70s here but I just haven't seen any evidence for one in the views of the people I've talked to who lived through it. Might not mean anything, but it was pretty surprising to me - bit of a culture shock, actually.
... but yeah, I really need to find some more interesting people to talk to.
2015-05-16, 9:09 am
Aikynaro Wrote:@ZgarbasAre these mostly housewives taking English lessons in their free time? I wouldn't really expect that to be a particularly pro feminism demographic, especially given what I've heard about working conditions in Japan. I wouldn't be fighting for the "right" to work every waking hour of the day either. Maybe you'd get different answers if you talked to women who had to struggle against sexism in order to support themselves and/or their families.
The people I've had these conversations with are by and large women in their 40s-60s (the demographic that takes English lessons)...at the very least I'd expect it to be the group that has the strongest positive opinion on feminism.
Bokusenou Wrote:Yeah it really sucks but I guess I might be extrapolating too much since I only usually watch British, American and Japanese TV. If someone does know of any equivalents I'd love to hear it. The voices are definitely there in England but they're no where near as mainstream. (As far as I can tell as a none American) I'm definitely going to give Gintama a try though.Splatted Wrote:Great thread. There are some worrying messages in Japanese media and I've always wondered to what extent they're representative of attitudes in Japan. I think the daily show and last week tonight etc are actually quite special by TV broadcasting standards though. Multiple comedians in the UK have spoken up regarding how they're often forbidden from talking about certain issues on TV and national radio and specifically that no one is allowed to make a British equivalent to the Daily Show.What!!? Really? That's too bad...I'd like to watch Daily Show equivalents from other countries, and if Japan had one I'd watch it as much as possible, especially since Japan, like any country, isn't without things to satirize. The latest Last Week Tonight even had a part on Japanese mascots. () Maybe I should start watching Gintama...
I saw the mascots too! And they have one for a prison!? Is it supposed to be welcoming? I'm so confused... Great to see the foreign embassies getting in on the action though. :lol:
Edited: 2015-05-16, 9:09 am
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2015-05-16, 10:29 am
Aikynaro Wrote:@ZgarbasWhen I went to Tokyo I only hung out with activists so I have a clearly biased demographic myself, but even outside the activist scene Japanese people were quite open to talking politics with me... It might be because I'm always kind of bringing it up, as 'I'm doing an MA in Gender studies' tends to lead to people expressing their views on feminism, but even random people in bars or the salary-men that I've been tutoring felt the need to complain about Abe and Japan's political scene, gender inequality in Japan, etc. or started telling me about their time with woman's lib or the 60s student revolts.
The people I've had these conversations with are by and large women in their 40s-60s (the demographic that takes English lessons), so I am most definitely hanging out with the wrong crowd. It's probably wrong for me to project the flat rejection of feminism etc. that I encounter here on the whole population of Japan, but at the very least I'd expect it to be the group that has the strongest positive opinion on feminism.
Was women's lib in the 70s really huge in Japan? That would really surprise me. I had at first naturally assumed that like in Western countries there would have been a strong feminist movement in the 70s here but I just haven't seen any evidence for one in the views of the people I've talked to who lived through it. Might not mean anything, but it was pretty surprising to me - bit of a culture shock, actually.
... but yeah, I really need to find some more interesting people to talk to.
Do 40-60 year-old women have the strongest positive opinion on feminism? In my head they're quite against it, if only because people reject an ideology telling them that their lifestyle is wrong as a knee-jerk reaction...or because they struggled for it and find it unfair that the new generation would have it easier (that's my image of them, coming from a fairly gender-equal but anti-feminist society). The 50+ year old Japanese men that I've met were quite pro-feminism and had fond memories of pursuing University during the women's lib days, though.
2015-05-16, 10:51 am
Splatted Wrote:Are these mostly housewives taking English lessons in their free time? I wouldn't really expect that to be a particularly pro feminism demographic, especially given what I've heard about working conditions in Japan. I wouldn't be fighting for the "right" to work every waking hour of the day either. Maybe you'd get different answers if you talked to women who had to struggle against sexism in order to support themselves and/or their families.Guess you have a point there. A reasonable percentage are housewives.
But then, there's a good number who aren't too.
An anecdote I like to trot out:
I used to have a student who was a chemist, in her early 50s or so, doing serious sounding research, attending international conferences, etc.
One day she told me that because the tea lady had left, it had turned into her job to make and serve the tea during meetings, because she was the only woman there.
I was like 'whoa! that's like 1950s. <some comment about feminism>'
And she was like 'I'm not a feminist. The only problem is that it cuts into my work time'.
I was pretty new to Japan back then and the idea that someone wouldn't be outraged by being discriminated against on the basis of their gender was still a new thing.
In my head 40-60 year old women have the strongest positive opinion on feminism because they are (in my head) the people who primarily fought for these rights or directly benefited from them. Maybe the influence of my mother, who is 55 and very much pro-feminism. Certainly if a bunch of men told her to make them tea because she's the only woman there she'd tell them to go make it themselves. I'm not sure how misguided this view of middle-aged women is, but I just kinda assumed that it's common.