I read your post. You said someone who has completed Genki 1/2 or a similar beginner course + Core2k is not a beginner, but rather an intermediate learner. This is different from a beginner opening Genki, not having gone through it, and using it to make easy level appropriate i+1 sentences which is a very easy and a complete contradiction to your statement "as a beginner you are NEVER going to find good i+1 sentences".

I think you reacted like a shrieking maniac because it's uncomfortable to write up a long post and to be demonstratively wrong so early in it. Don't take your embarrassment out on me.

Now you're just trolling.

Considering your post has no substance you must be referring to yourself.

I'm not embarrassed. I was addressing an argument in favour of usage of pre-made learning materials and clarifying my position on when to jump into native material. It is obvious that I was saying that total beginners will never find enough sentences in native material because I was directly addressing what Eratik seemed to think my opinion was (that beginners should try and find i+1 sentences in the wild). If there was any confusion however, once you read the part were I recommended that beginners use textbooks like Genki 1 and 2, then this should have been quickly cleared up. It should have become clear to you that I was saying that a textbook or other beginners course would be the exception to this rule, and that therefore, this is the way beginners should head.

If you still after this persist to beleive that I was not reccomending for begginers to find i+1 sentences in textbooks rather than native material which is beyond them but was just negating the existence of i+1 for beginners (therefore somehow implying that it is physically impossible for anyone to begin learning Japanese), then I must assume that you are either:

a) Trolling as Vempele said
b) Not very intelligent

If you reply to this and in a similar way to your last to posts I will not react because as I said earlier, I don't usually like to bring negativity to people's threads. Sorry, guys.

Helena4 Wrote:once you read the part were I recommended that beginners use textbooks like Genki 1 and 2

This never happened. You said you someone who has completed Genki 1/2 or a similar beginner course + Core2k is not a beginner, but rather an intermediate learner. Again, this is different from a beginner opening Genki, not having gone through it, and using it to make easy level appropriate i+1 sentences which is a very easy. And then you gave a plug to pre-made decks.

None of these change your statement of "as a beginner you are NEVER going to find good i+1 sentences. Simple." which just isn't true. As a beginner you find can find plenty of good i+1 sentences from so many sources, or even things like this which you then plug into alc.

Helena4 Wrote:It is obvious that I was saying that total beginners will never find enough sentences in native material because I was directly addressing what Eratik seemed to think my opinion was (that beginners should try and find i+1 sentences in the wild)

False. He never said "native material". He simply said "make your own cards". Your sweeping statements were also said in a way that makes them inherently applicable to all forms of Japanese.

Helena4 Wrote:If there was any confusion however, once you read the part were I recommended that beginners use textbooks like Genki 1 and 2

You never made any actual recommendation. You said that people who have completed beginner courses are intermediate (obvious), and that if you use textbooks at all find a pre-made (questionable).

Helena4 Wrote:If you still after this persist to beleive that I was not reccomending for begginers to find i+1 sentences in textbooks rather than native material

You weren't. What you did, however, is make two sweeping and incorrect statements:

1) "as a beginner .... you are NEVER going to find good i+1 sentences" (false)
2) "It would be gruelling complete waste of time to make your own cards as a beginner" (false. It's never a waste of time to make your own cards and Supermemo's 20 rules goes over the benefits of formulating your own knowledge from a retention perspective.)

Helena4 Wrote:Trolling as Vempele said

Vempele is a low quality poster. Mentioning him as some sort of agent of legitimacy isn't helping you.

Helena4 Wrote:Not very intelligent

Your projection could power an outdoor movie theater.

Helena4 Wrote:If you reply to this and in a similar way to your last to posts I will not react because as I said earlier, I don't usually like to bring negativity to people's threads. Sorry, guys.

If you're not interested in bringing negativity next time I recommend you behave more maturely than posting what read like an unhinged maniac going on a rant in response to a relatively normal post.

Okay, I take back what I said about not responding since, as you said, I have already created the negativity, but I'll make it short.

I do not have a problem in quoting Vempele because I judge him only on my observation and I don't brand people as "low quality posters".

I would also like to point out that exaggeration is a literary device and should not be taken literally.

I kept this one free of abuse, so let's stop the dramatic argument and step back into calm discussion. I am very sorry for overreacting so violently and causing this conflict, and it was not your fault.

[Katsuo]

Helena4 Wrote:let's stop the dramatic argument and step back into calm discussion.

Good idea.