Hi everyone I will be blunt: it'll be my 3rd time trying to learn japanese, and if I won't succeed this time..well, we will see. I will have to wait a bit with learning it since I have Matura in May, but I want to be prepared.

I just realized that when it comes to japanese it's not important what you learn, but how you learn. And hence I have several questions that would help me.

I use Genki for a grammar, and RTK (but of course) for a kanji. I have Anki too, but I didn't used it yet.

And this's where my problems start:

1. Should I start with Genki or RTK? Logically speaking, starting with grammar would be more reasonable, but I see a lot of people start with going through RTK.
2. From where do you actually learn vocabulary?
3. About RTK - I know it's really good way to recognize kanji (I tried about 20 of them for a 'try' and I didn't had any problems with recognizing them later), but it doesn't have reading, nor it has any info about compounds (the fact some of kanji change meaning in compounds is kind of scary too), so won't this bite me in the ass in general learning?
4. I noticed that some users here abandon relying on "Heisig's stories" and try to create stories on their own. Is it necessary?

That's it for now.

edit: oh right, english isn't my native language, so sorry for eventual mistakes.

1. Start with what you want to start with. You have already tried learning Japanese twice, so I assume you have some prior experience with kanji? What is going to be easier and more motivating to you? What might be more likely to drive you towards quitting again? You should take these aspects into account. I began RTK after 4 years of university level Japanese classes, and it was still useful to me at that point. You could also study Genki and RTK at the same time if you wanted, but you need to be willing to dedicate the time that they both need.

2. At first, picking up the basics through Genki would be fine. Afterwards the Core2k/6k/5k or whatever decks for anki are usually highly recommended.

3. RTK is indeed only a way to recognize kanji (and also be able to write them, but this is a skill that is less appreciated these days). You STILL have to learn all of the stuff like the readings and compounds, you aren't going to be able to skip that or anything. You just learn it from somewhere else. It typically comes along with vocabulary acquisition. RTK makes it all much easier though, by helping to get the most difficult aspect of kanji out of the way up front.

4. Its definitely necessary. For one, heisig stops even giving stories partway through the book. The stories he does give are just to jumpstart your imagination and show you how to do it. Stories you come up with will probably be more likely to stick in your mind than someone else's story, unless that other story just really resonates with you.

Hi yamineko.

Well, I'm beginning to study japanese too. First I have to say that I don't use Genki for the part of grammar. I use Minna no Nihongo, but in fact both are for the same.

1. I think that is best to study first kanji and later the grammar. Why? Most books use kanjis in the examples. Also is easier learn new vocabulary if you know what means the kanjis separately.

離 means "separation"
婚 means "marriage"

So 離婚 means "divorce"

2. RTK no covers vocabulary but you can learn it anywhere. I learn vocabulary in my mobile app (Obenkyo), in my grammar book (Minna no Nihongo) and in various web pages (http://www.manythings.org/kanji for example)

3. RTK hasn't readings becuase Heisig says that it's better learn first the kanji and then the reading. I'm agree with he. It's true that in the book Heisig only associates one meaning for one kanji and the meaning can change depending to the compounds. I recommend to study only one meaning for one kanji. Later you can contrast the different connotations by the way of study vocabulary.

4. If you like the Heisig's story and you can imagine the scene, you can use it. But is you think that the story is crap (believe me, they are more than one), you should create your own story or find one better in the forum.

Your english is so good, I'm spanish and I wish I could say the same XD

"From where do you actually learn vocab?"

Well 2 places really. Initially you learn it through your textbook / learning resources whatever you choose to go with first when you're learning some grammar to get a basic understanding of Japanese. After that once you kinda know what you're doing you learn it through watching drama/anime, reading books, playing games, talking to people, listening music etc. When you come across a word you don't know, just look it up and put it in Anki and keep repeating the process. The thing about this is you learn the words you actually need to know and not some arbitrary list.

Zarxrax Wrote:1. Start with what you want to start with. You have already tried learning Japanese twice, so I assume you have some prior experience with kanji? What is going to be easier and more motivating to you? What might be more likely to drive you towards quitting again? You should take these aspects into account. I began RTK after 4 years of university level Japanese classes, and it was still useful to me at that point. You could also study Genki and RTK at the same time if you wanted, but you need to be willing to dedicate the time that they both need.

Learning kanji would definitely be more encouraging to me. And from what I hear if you know kanji in sentence you kind of know the POINT of the sentence.

Quote:2. At first, picking up the basics through Genki would be fine. Afterwards the Core2k/6k/5k or whatever decks for anki are usually highly recommended.

Sounds good enough. But Genki beside vocab, have a kanji too. So you think it would be better to learn just kana, or kanji too? Though it would disrupt RTK's learning order.

Quote:3. RTK is indeed only a way to recognize kanji (and also be able to write them, but this is a skill that is less appreciated these days). You STILL have to learn all of the stuff like the readings and compounds, you aren't going to be able to skip that or anything. You just learn it from somewhere else. It typically comes along with vocabulary acquisition. RTK makes it all much easier though, by helping to get the most difficult aspect of kanji out of the way up front.

So yeah. it seems RTK is essential here.

Quote:4. Its definitely necessary. For one, heisig stops even giving stories partway through the book. The stories he does give are just to jumpstart your imagination and show you how to do it. Stories you come up with will probably be more likely to stick in your mind than someone else's story, unless that other story just really resonates with you.

Though I can't say I'm good story writer...but is it possible to download them, right?

valcerona Wrote:1. I think that is best to study first kanji and later the grammar. Why? Most books use kanjis in the examples. Also is easier learn new vocabulary if you know what means the kanjis separately.

離 means "separation"
婚 means "marriage"

So 離婚 means "divorce"

I see your point, but there are compounds you can't exactly figure out so easily. But yes, I will go with kanji first.

Quote:4. If you like the Heisig's story and you can imagine the scene, you can use it. But is you think that the story is crap (believe me, they are more than one), you should create your own story or find one better in the forum.

Well, for now they aren't really bad. But like Zarxrax-san said, there are some without story at all.

Why don't you leave Genki alone, and do Tae kim's grammar guide while picking up some graded readers, on topics that interest you, and work through them instead? Find an interesting drama, or anime, or movie for listening practise.

I think that Genki leaves a lot to be desired, but maybe that's just me.