I guess it's about time for another progress report...

(June 2) compared to Today - June 24:
sentences: (2312) = same
unique vocab: (2329) = same
grammar: (448) = same
kanji: (787) = same
kanji vocab = 105
audio vocab = 75

Not much has changed in the last 22 days. Work got a little in the way of things, so I took a break from adding new cards and just made sure to finish my reviews every day. I recently started adding audio only vocab cards and vocab cards without furigana. Neither deck is very challenging, but I'm hoping the extra practice makes reading and listening a little less painful. I'm not sure how far I want to go with these 2 new decks, but I want to focus on them for a month or two before focusing on reading, listening and practice tests.

I've also started playing around with a few new things which I'll progressively add more and more of going forward. I finally started going through erin's challenge and it's actually great practice. I'd like to work my way through to the end of erin's challenge as time permits. I've also been playing around with the SABU app which looks promising. I plan to start watching Saikou no Rikon with Japanese subs. I've watched the series already, so I'm taking it as a test drive of buonararte's Listening Reading method.

July Goals:
- Finish anki reviews every day ~1hr
- Continue adding Audio only vocab cards.
- Continue adding Vocab cards without furigana.
- Erin's challenge if I have any time after ankiing
- Saikou no Rikon w/ Japanese subtitles if I have any time after ankiing

July & beyond:
- Start taking practice tests
- Continue with Saikou no Rikon, Erin's challenge, ect.
- NHK easy
- Finish Tae Kim
- Reading parallel texts
- Add the last 87 N3 vocab words

BOOM!

Just finished 第６回 from 新完全マスターN３漢字！Man that took a while. Up next is まとめ問題２.

I'm looking forward to finishing that by the end of June. That will allow me to start July with a fresh start at 第３部。

So, a brief update here as we close in on the end of the month.

I looked at my kanji stats today and saw that I had exactly 599 kanji mature. I laughed and was like "faraway, so close!". Hopefully I can get one more in the next 3 days.

I'm also halfway thru the summary test at the end of the second section of my kanji book.

I also just signed up for 5 more lessons on JOI.

Work has been picking up for me lately. I think that if I do 1 grammer lesson a week for the next 5 weeks, which is how I usually pace the JOI lessons, plus keep up my anki reviews, I'll pretty much be at my limit for how much time I'm willing to spend on Japanese per day. This means putting my various self study books (N3 kanji, vocab, NHK Easy News) off to the side for 5 weeks. I realize that this will hamper the liklihood of me passing the test in december, but I'm OK with that. I'm guess I'm now thinking of adopting a strategy of alternating the 5 weeks of JOI lessons with a few weeks of self-study. This should mitigate the "there's just so much material! How do I prioritize it all!" feeling I've often had while I try to do the JOI material plus all the self study material all at once. Again, it might mean I don't hit N3-level by December 6, 2015, but at least I'm gradually improving my language ability.

BOOM! Just broke 600 mature kanji The actual number was 601. Here's my graph:



The inflection point ~7 weeks ago is when I changed my deck to be kanji -> definition. I'm loving how little time the reviews take as well

Something tells me that getting the next 100 will take longer than the last 100 took. But it's pretty much a non-issue for me, because kanji is really not what's holding me back on the N3.

Yay - I just finished my kanji book's まとめ問題２, which finishes all of 第２部. They introduced a new, sadistic type of kanji question at the end. They wrote out 4 short sentences, underline 1 hiragana word with each, and then ask you to pick which one is a different kanji character. The example is:

道のりょうがわに土産物屋が並んでいる。
彼女はりょうしんと一緒に住んでいる。
転んでりょうほうの足をけがした。
すーぱーでしょくりょう品を買った。

To be honest, I had never encountered this type of question before, and did very poorly on this section.

ariariari Wrote:Yay - I just finished my kanji book's まとめ問題２, which finishes all of 第２部. They introduced a new, sadistic type of kanji question at the end. They wrote out 4 short sentences, underline 1 hiragana word with each, and then ask you to pick which one is a different kanji character. The example is:

道のりょうがわに土産物屋が並んでいる。
彼女はりょうしんと一緒に住んでいる。
転んでりょうほうの足をけがした。
すーぱーでしょくりょう品を買った。

To be honest, I had never encountered this type of question before, and did very poorly on this section.

So is the answer #4 as りょう is 両 in the first three but 料 in the last one? Is that what the question is? That's quite a challenging question but great practice for understanding kanji! I enjoy those types of problems as they are kind of like puzzles to solve. They often have questions like these on Japanese quiz shows.

Jawful Wrote:So is the answer #4 as りょう is 両 in the first three but 料 in the last one? Is that what the question is? That's quite a challenging question but great practice for understanding kanji! I enjoy those types of problems as they are kind of like puzzles to solve. They often have questions like these on Japanese quiz shows.

Yes, that's exactly right. I wasn't sure whether to include the answer or not, but now I realize that I should have. To be honest, I'm just glad that I encountered this type of problem for the first time now as opposed to on the test day. When I took JLPT N4 last year there was a lot of stuff that I saw for the first time when I actually took the test.

ariariari Wrote:Yes, that's exactly right. I wasn't sure whether to include the answer or not, but now I realize that I should have. To be honest, I'm just glad that I encountered this type of problem for the first time now as opposed to on the test day. When I took JLPT N4 last year there was a lot of stuff that I saw for the first time when I actually took the test.

For me, lots of practice tests are best. I've already taken 6 mock exams over the last few months and one more left to take next Saturday (before the test on Sunday). I did it similarly before each version of the test. And I have my EFL students take at least 2 mock exams before taking whichever test they do. I think it's really important for learning how to take the test so that you don't get answers wrong because of the test itself.

Perfect knowledge of the test content is only part of the battle. The test format itself must also be mastered (but is pretty simple and at least one mock test is enough... really. I just like taking them and seeing how much progress I'm making in my studies.)

Anyway good luck!

Where do you get the practice tests?

There's a sample paper on jlpt website as well as small sample paper on jlptbootcamp website.

Just a a question regarding うちに and ついでに since I find them quite similar.

散歩にでかけた( )スーパーによって買い物をして帰った。 ついでに is used because of past tense.

if we change sentence to

散歩に出かける ( )... うちに is used.

Is this correct?

redshoulder Wrote:There's a sample paper on jlpt website as well as small sample paper on jlptbootcamp website.

Just a a question regarding うちに and ついでに since I find them quite similar.

散歩にでかけた( )スーパーによって買い物をして帰った。 ついでに is used because of past tense.

if we change sentence to

散歩に出かける ( )... うちに is used.

Is this correct?

You can use ついでに in the present/future tense too if the 2nd part of the sentence also matches.

ついでに means that you are going to take advantage of the fact you will be doing something else to accomplish this other task. They can be separate activities but the fact that you've gone out of your way to do the one makes the 2nd one easier. "Since I'm going to do blah blah anyway..."

うちに is used more within the time span of another activity, but that time is usually not specific. "While I'm young, blah blah". If it's used with a verb, such as in your example, you would need to change it to the present continuous している form to make it an ongoing activity.　でかけているうちに

うちに kinda sounds like you want to get it done before time runs out. 若いうちに、いろいろな国に行きたい。
ついでに sounds like you want to take advantage of another situation do do something. 出張で東京に行くついでに、東京ディズニーランドに行きます。

You can use うちに to convey similar meaning of ついでに but the nuance of "taking advantage of" is lost and the focus goes on to "before time's up". 出張で東京にいるうちに、東京ディズニーランドに行きます。It's an OK sentence but the nuance is different.

However, you can't really use ついでに the way うちに is usually used, with indefinite time stuff, like
暇なうちに、テレビを見ます。 or 学生のうちに、勉強を頑張ってください。or 若いうちに、いっぱい遊びました。These sentences can't really be expressed well with ついでに.

うちに is close to あいだに but one of the main differences is
あいだ is often with a known amount of time, like "between 5pm and 6pm" where うちに is often with unspecified time such as "While you're a student..."

Hope this doesn't confuse you more!! And I'm not an expert so apologies if my sentences aren't perfect. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about something.

ariariari Wrote:Where do you get the practice tests?

Assuming you want to take N3:

This is the official one but you can basically download this from their website in PDF form:
Jlpt N3 Japanese Lauguage Proficiency Test Official Book

I used the N1 versions of these books to practice:
JLPT Kanzen Moshi N3

Measures Vol.2 N3 with Japanese Language Proficiency Test Moshi

That 2nd one also has a Volume 1 somewhere. I live in Japan so I bought all 3 books from Amazon Japan. I'm not sure where you live so I just went for Amazon.com for the links, but searching for the ISBN in your location should help find them.

Also, you can often find PDFs and MP3s of past tests online via torrents or the Chinese websites. That's what I did back in the day and I just took the tests using my computer. It was fine but the tests aren't perfect. Also, those tests are the old JLPT format which are are a little different than now (before there was an N3 level). So you won't find those for N3. They used to publish the past tests but stopped when they upgraded the format in 2009.

Anyway, I found having the books to be a great help so I recommend one or all of them to help study. Good luck!

redshoulder Wrote:There's a sample paper on jlpt website as well as small sample paper on jlptbootcamp website.

Just a a question regarding うちに and ついでに since I find them quite similar.

散歩にでかけた( )スーパーによって買い物をして帰った。 ついでに is used because of past tense.

if we change sentence to

散歩に出かける ( )... うちに is used.

Is this correct?

My understanding is that うちに is similar to saying "while... then" and ついでに is like saying "when... then" Also ついでに has a connotation of of grabbing an opportunity. For example:

While you are in Japan, please make sure to climb Mt. Fuji -> 日本にいるうちにぜひ富士山を登ってください。
When you go to Japan, please take the chance to climb Mt. Fuji -> 日本に行くついてにぜひ富士山を登ってください。

But I'm not 100% sure. So if anyone else has a bette explanation I would be interested to hear it!

EDIT Overlooked Jawful's excellent explanation above.

ariariari Wrote:I realize that this will hamper the likelihood of me passing the test in december, but I'm OK with that.

Oh geez. Really? Are the tests really that difficult? You seem pretty far ahead of me and I think you're spending more time than me too. I was assuming you'd ace the test.

And I've never taken the JLPT so I don't know what to expect. I have been holding off taking practice tests for a while so that I don't memorize the practice tests by the winter. But I was expecting a pretty straightforward reading and listening comprehension exam, but it sounds like it's more than that. Should I expect a lot of difficult trick questions?

yogert909 Wrote:

ariariari Wrote:I realize that this will hamper the likelihood of me passing the test in december, but I'm OK with that.

Oh geez. Really? Are the tests really that difficult? You seem pretty far ahead of me and I think you're spending more time than me too. I was assuming you'd ace the test.

And I've never taken the JLPT so I don't know what to expect. I have been holding off taking practice tests for a while so that I don't memorize the practice tests by the winter. But I was expecting a pretty straightforward reading and listening comprehension exam, but it sounds like it's more than that. Should I expect a lot of difficult trick questions?

Well, I wouldn't let my machinations affect your self-confidence. If you look at the very first on this thread I link to the actual pass rates on all of the exams. It varies from test to test, but it's normally about a 1/3 pass rate.

Personally, I passed the N4 but felt that it mauled me. I did great on the vocab/kanji part, but that was it. In every other part there was a lot of stuff that I just didn't know. You can review the actual numbers on the link I reference above, but I think that you need to get about a 50% to pass. And only about 1/3 of the people pass.

I am happy with my progress but my study time has been decreasing quite a bit. Right now I spend about 40 minutes / day with Anki, and that's the bulk of my study time. I don't think that I can (or want to spend more time with Anki per day right now.

For me I think that the path to feel more confident with the exam would be spending more time with the prep books, drilling grammar, listening and reading as they test it. But I just can't make that commitment right now.

When I do spend time outside of Anki, it tends to be to go to conversation groups and the like. The test has really made me realize that there's a big difference between using the language and improving my language ability (especially as the JLPT measures it, which includes no speaking or writing).

If you don't know what to expect, I highly recommend buying the official N3 Practice Test and spending an afternoon taking it. My biggest regret from taking the N4 is that I really just didn't know what to expect.

ariariari Wrote:Well, I wouldn't let my machinations affect your self-confidence. If you look at the very first on this thread I link to the actual pass rates on all of the exams. It varies from test to test, but it's normally about a 1/3 pass rate.

Personally, I passed the N4 but felt that it mauled me. I did great on the vocab/kanji part, but that was it. In every other part there was a lot of stuff that I just didn't know. You can review the actual numbers on the link I reference above, but I think that you need to get about a 50% to pass. And only about 1/3 of the people pass.

I am happy with my progress but my study time has been decreasing quite a bit. Right now I spend about 40 minutes / day with Anki, and that's the bulk of my study time. I don't think that I can (or want to spend more time with Anki per day right now.

For me I think that the path to feel more confident with the exam would be spending more time with the prep books, drilling grammar, listening and reading as they test it. But I just can't make that commitment right now.

When I do spend time outside of Anki, it tends to be to go to conversation groups and the like. The test has really made me realize that there's a big difference between using the language and improving my language ability (especially as the JLPT measures it, which includes no speaking or writing).

If you don't know what to expect, I highly recommend buying the official N3 Practice Test and spending an afternoon taking it. My biggest regret from taking the N4 is that I really just didn't know what to expect.

Thanks ariariari, I fully plan on taking practice tests. However, I want to wait a bit since the test is only an accurate gauge of my level the first time through, as I'll remember things from the test the second time. In other words, I don't want to waste fresh tests too early in the game. I will probably start taking easier tests starting with N5 and N4 to get used to the format and working my way up to N3 in maybe octoberish more as a gauge of what I need to spend more study time on.

Of course, I'm still considering dropping the whole thing as I have no practical reason to pass N3 beyond bragging rights and some way to benchmark my level. I'll only take the test if I have a reasonable chance of passing. Due to my emerging capacity to read native material, I might even enjoy that too much to bother with studying for some silly test anyway. But then again, there's a chance I might be in Japan in December, so it would be cool to take the test there.. Decisions, decisions..

I guess I am spending a little more time than you, but that's only by being antisocial and going to lunch alone so I can study on lunch. I only eat at places that I can walk to, so I can do anki reps while walking to/from lunch. I'm able to carve out about 90 minutes a day that way. I even bought a dash mount for my iphone so I can study kanji when traffic grinds to a stop. It makes traffic more bearable since more gridlock means more study

Hello folks,

we are getting close...NP3 test for me.

I took another mock test Saturday and I had slight better result than the one two months before.
I scored 25 on 35 for もじand ごい
and 17 on 39 for the grammar, which it is my weakest point.
Unfortunately I worked on a mock test sheet gave me by the teacher and It did not have any cd for the listening section.
I am doing a lot of reading exercises during my 通って時間 on the bus, on the yamanote and I am finishing the first book, 6　weeks long, called somatome.
At least I improveｄ my speed which was my great concern two months ago.
I gave up on the purpose on understand everything, and I am using the same technique I successfully used for the IELTS exam; reading the question first, then looking for the solutions within the passage.
I am preparing myself also on the scenario of not passing the exam. In that case 6 months more will do the job!
Particularly I found myself in trouble with so many words, so I think I need to spend more time in learning new words to enrich my vocabulary.

頑張って！

p.s. I noticed ariari writing taking grammar lessons on JOI...what is that?

Just finished my last anki set for the month of June. This means I get to do the monthly stats compare. W00t!

Compared to the end of May:
mature grammar cards: 370 (today) - 345 (end of May) = +25
mature kanji cards: 608 (today) - 532 (end of May) = +76
mature vocab cards: 3,994 (today) - 3,882 (end of May) = +112

Compared to January 20 (my earliest record for 2015):
mature grammar cards: 370 (today) - 208 (1/20) = +162
mature kanji cards: 608 (today) - 478 mature (1/20) = +130
mature vocab cards: 3,994 (today) - 3,246 (1/20) = +748

Completed chapters of N3 practice books:
新完全マスター漢字：第６回
日本語総まとめ：語彙：第１週３日目

What went well in June:
Big milestone hit: over 600 mature kanji

More seriously, May was the first time in ages when I let didn't take classes at JOI. I used the time to work thru 新完全マスター漢字N３. That was pretty awesome. If you just compare the number of kanji I know (the mature count above, plus the hundreds anki lists as 'learning' and 'suspended') then I'm "done" for the N3. But actually drilling the readings plus other stuff they teach in that book is really awesome. So I'm glad I did that. I also like that their questions (presumably) mirror the type of questions you'll get on the exam. Some of the question types there totally surprised me. There's also a ton of vocab in that book.

I also learned about the Stylish plugin that removes all furigana from NHK Easy News. And reading the news like that totally changed what "reading comprehension" means to me.

What I want to work on in July:
Well, today is actually my first day back with JOI. I bought the 5 lesson set so that should take me thru July. I like their N3 grammar lessons, so I hope to make a lot of grammar progress in July. I also hope to finish the entire first week of 日本語総まとめ：語彙. So far with that book I've mostly skipped around the whole book, adding in the "easy" words (katakana words, hiragana words, kanji words with readings I'm already familiar with). But I think at this point I need to start going thru it more systematically, so that I can complete more of the practice tests.

uaifestival Wrote:p.s. I noticed ariari writing taking grammar lessons on JOI...what is that?

JOI = Japanese Online Institute: http://www.japonin.com/.

As a new student, you get to take three 1-hour lessons for only 900 yen. Pretty good deal! The lessons are online, small (maybe at most 5 students), and very, very focused.

For example, today I am taking an N3 grammar lesson. The lesson plan is:

Page Numbers ■Kanzen Master N3 Grammar　Page 23
Japanese Title ～に限（かぎ）る
English Title ～is the best, or ~ is the best method/way
Japanese Sample Sentences やっぱり映画（えいが）は映画館（えいがかん）で見るに限（かぎ）る
English Sample Sentences Speaking of movies, watching them in a cinema is the best.

After I take their grammar lessons, I normally go to lang-8.com and write my own sample sentences. Native speakers then correct my sentences. I then add the best ones into anki so I can regularly review them. So far that's worked well for me.

yogert909 Wrote:

ariariari Wrote:Well, I wouldn't let my machinations affect your self-confidence. If you look at the very first on this thread I link to the actual pass rates on all of the exams. It varies from test to test, but it's normally about a 1/3 pass rate.

Personally, I passed the N4 but felt that it mauled me. I did great on the vocab/kanji part, but that was it. In every other part there was a lot of stuff that I just didn't know. You can review the actual numbers on the link I reference above, but I think that you need to get about a 50% to pass. And only about 1/3 of the people pass.

I am happy with my progress but my study time has been decreasing quite a bit. Right now I spend about 40 minutes / day with Anki, and that's the bulk of my study time. I don't think that I can (or want to spend more time with Anki per day right now.

For me I think that the path to feel more confident with the exam would be spending more time with the prep books, drilling grammar, listening and reading as they test it. But I just can't make that commitment right now.

When I do spend time outside of Anki, it tends to be to go to conversation groups and the like. The test has really made me realize that there's a big difference between using the language and improving my language ability (especially as the JLPT measures it, which includes no speaking or writing).

If you don't know what to expect, I highly recommend buying the official N3 Practice Test and spending an afternoon taking it. My biggest regret from taking the N4 is that I really just didn't know what to expect.

Thanks ariariari, I fully plan on taking practice tests. However, I want to wait a bit since the test is only an accurate gauge of my level the first time through, as I'll remember things from the test the second time. In other words, I don't want to waste fresh tests too early in the game. I will probably start taking easier tests starting with N5 and N4 to get used to the format and working my way up to N3 in maybe octoberish more as a gauge of what I need to spend more study time on.

Of course, I'm still considering dropping the whole thing as I have no practical reason to pass N3 beyond bragging rights and some way to benchmark my level. I'll only take the test if I have a reasonable chance of passing. Due to my emerging capacity to read native material, I might even enjoy that too much to bother with studying for some silly test anyway. But then again, there's a chance I might be in Japan in December, so it would be cool to take the test there.. Decisions, decisions..

I guess I am spending a little more time than you, but that's only by being antisocial and going to lunch alone so I can study on lunch. I only eat at places that I can walk to, so I can do anki reps while walking to/from lunch. I'm able to carve out about 90 minutes a day that way. I even bought a dash mount for my iphone so I can study kanji when traffic grinds to a stop. It makes traffic more bearable since more gridlock means more study

If you've never taken a JLPT I highly recommend it. Despite it being so hard, I felt that it was a good test in that it wasn't like they were making up random stuff. Signing up really focused my energy and study habits. The JLPT website says that they "certify" your ability. So I view each level as testing a solid canon of vocab, grammar, reading and listening that you need to pass thru 5 stages of language ability. It's like a milestone.

I have found this to be especially useful in Japanese, because many native speakers seem to think that a non-Japanese is fluent if they can simply introduce themselves.

ariariari Wrote:If you've never taken a JLPT I highly recommend it. Despite it being so hard, I felt that it was a good test in that it wasn't like they were making up random stuff. Signing up really focused my energy and study habits. The JLPT website says that they "certify" your ability. So I view each level as testing a solid canon of vocab, grammar, reading and listening that you need to pass thru 5 stages of language ability. It's like a milestone.

I have found this to be especially useful in Japanese, because many native speakers seem to think that a non-Japanese is fluent if they can simply introduce themselves.

I couldn't agree more. That's exactly why I'm considering taking the JLPT. It's been productive even now, because it's forcing me to constantly assess my weak points and determine how to get in shape by December. In other words, it's a much more concrete and immediate goal than "learn Japanese".

uaifestival Wrote:Hello folks,

we are getting close...NP3 test for me.

Hey Buddy, good luck! Let us know what we're in for 6 months from now.

[RawToast]

Since the 1st of June:

Sentence Cards:
Mature Cards: 1696 (1449) +247
Young&Learn: 382 (313) More cards
Total: 2078 (1762) +316 (On course for ~3800)

Kanji Stats:
688 total unique kanji. (80) +80

Kanji Jouyou levels:
Grade 1: 68 of 80 (85%). (66) +2 (I don't think Morphman wants me to get these!)
Grade 2: 136 of 160 (85%). (122) +14
Grade 3: 129 of 200 (64.5%). (111) +18
Grade 4: 98 of 200 (49%). (88) +10
Grade 5: 62 of 185 (33.5%). (55) +7
Grade 6: 59 of 181 (32.5%). (53) +6

What went well in June:

Lots of cards! Commuting makes studying more cards easier, since there's very little to do on a train. Making good progress with a teacher on iTalki, I am trying to focus on just one teacher for now and see how it goes. I still want to try JOI at a higher level.
Completed the iTalki 12 hour challenge, which will reward me with enough to take a 5 lesson block with a tutor.

July

I need to read/watch more content. Since I will be staying in hotels (more work...) I'll have some spare time to watch some films and series. I have a lot of content with Japanese subtitles, which I'd like to get through...

thanks for grammar explanation!

New milestone: Just broke 4k mature vocab cards for the first time