Yes results out next week, feeling a bit anxious.

Never used Genki series, I would expect it to be n4 level is this correct?

We used Japanese for Busy people 1 and 2, and in book 2 it introduced kanji, the first chapter introduced "gi" from kaigi, so bloody stupid learning 18-20 strokes for one character instead or learning something simple like numbers first, however as the book title suggests was intended for gaijin salaryman.

Yes I agree doing textbooks is great at start, then I moved on to JLPT study books exclusively while supplementing it with anki, imabi, nhkwebnewseasy etc.

[RawToast]

Quote:Never used Genki series, I would expect it to be n4 level is this correct?

It is and it isn't. I believe the Genki series closely resembes the old JLPT4, which was harder than N4. So Genki 1+2 leaves you at a stage where you should know 80-90% of N4 grammar, and you know some N3 grammar. Vocab wise, you'll be short by about 1000 words though (but I have Anki for that).

I don't study exclusively using Genki, it's just good revision that gets me speaking. Genki 1 was 80% revision with a few new points and clairifications (from learning grammar by reading). I've been able to read NHK Easy for sometime now, I find it boring -- and funnily enough so does my tutor

I've reached the end of my current set of 'new cards'. I plan on adding notes to my currently unused TaeKim cards ('Special Expressions' and 'Advanced Topics', so 326 cards for me) and working through them. I often don't read the site beforehand, so copy+pasting the site's contents into the cards comes in handy! I think that should set a solid foundation of N3 level grammar to work from.

Quote:We used Japanese for Busy people 1 and 2, and in book 2 it introduced kanji, the first chapter introduced "gi" from kaigi, so bloody stupid learning 18-20 strokes for one character instead or learning something simple like numbers first, however as the book title suggests was intended for gaijin salaryman.

I 'used' that series when going to night classes and it really is awful! Genki isn't much better with writing, it may start with numbers but doesn't take long before moving on to days of the week, which means you'll need to learn: 曜.

Brief update: today I finished the quiz for week 1 day 6 of soumatme vocab. I only got 50%

The low score was a surprise to me because I do well on that vocab when I encounter it in anki. I guess that it's better to learn sooner rather than later that the vocab portion of this test will be different than anki reviews. It's also unfortunate to work thru this book myself, because I can't really understand why I'm wrong just by looking at the problem.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to finishing the end of the week test. After this I'm going to start anki-fying the vocab in sou-matome reading and continue working thru that book with an italki teacher.

OK, just finished the practice section at the end of week 1. I got a 64/100. Wow, that was a heck of a lot lower than I hoped for. Interestingly, my score varied by the question type. I did particularly bad in section 1.

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ariariari Wrote:The low score was a surprise to me because I do well on that vocab when I encounter it in anki. I guess that it's better to learn sooner rather than later that the vocab portion of this test will be different than anki reviews. It's also unfortunate to work thru this book myself, because I can't really understand why I'm wrong just by looking at the problem.

When I get an issue like that I put the question (or sentence) into Evernote I have called 'Questions' and ask them in my iTalki lessons. I find the sou matome books are rather short on explanations (the Kanzen Master grammar book I have isn't much better).

Stats for the month, including mature + learning:
grammar: 459 (today) - 462 (July 31) = -3 (huh?)
kanji: 853 (today) - 870 (July 31) = -17 (huh?)
vocab: 4,929 (today) - 4,870 (July 31): + 59

Just bought a new set of 5 lessons from JOI. The first one is on Tuesday, and I learn ～かわりに・・・, which I'm looking forward to. In 2 Thursdays I have a lesson with Kara on italki and we're gonna continue with the soumatome reading book.

[RawToast]

ariariari Wrote:Stats for the month, including mature + learning:
grammar: 459 (today) - 462 (July 31) = -3 (huh?)
kanji: 853 (today) - 870 (July 31) = -17 (huh?)
vocab: 4,929 (today) - 4,870 (July 31): + 59

Eh? What went on there? I guess you deleted some old/pointless cards?

ariariari Wrote:Just bought a new set of 5 lessons from JOI. The first one is on Tuesday, and I learn ～かわりに・・・, which I'm looking forward to. In 2 Thursdays I have a lesson with Kara on italki and we're gonna continue with the soumatome reading book.

Are you taking the N3 specific lessons at JOI? I was considering trying those out.

I am going to post my stats next Monday. Just added ~200 new cards to go through with some stuff from Genki 2, Sou Matome, An Intermediate Approach, and the last of my Minna no Nihongo cards (Morphman said I needed to do them...). I don't expect to finish them by next week, but I should make good progress by then.

Went over a review section and e days in my Sou Matome grammar book over the weekend, with pretty nice results -- just one question wrong each time! It's early days in the book and I already have some experience with the grammar from reading. If Sou Matome continues to be easy, I'll 'graduate' to Kanzen Master.

RawToast Wrote:

ariariari Wrote:Stats for the month, including mature + learning:
grammar: 459 (today) - 462 (July 31) = -3 (huh?)
kanji: 853 (today) - 870 (July 31) = -17 (huh?)
vocab: 4,929 (today) - 4,870 (July 31): + 59

Eh? What went on there? I guess you deleted some old/pointless cards?

I wish. I guess I just got a bunch wrong so often they auto-suspended. I think that this is the first time when I saw a negative number here. Although I normally just count the number of mature. So maybe mature went up but toal went down. Bah, I'll worry more about it at the end of the month!

RawToast Wrote:

ariariari Wrote:Just bought a new set of 5 lessons from JOI. The first one is on Tuesday, and I learn ～かわりに・・・, which I'm looking forward to. In 2 Thursdays I have a lesson with Kara on italki and we're gonna continue with the soumatome reading book.

Are you taking the N3 specific lessons at JOI? I was considering trying those out.

I'm looking to take some of the N3 specific lessons - it looks like they start on the 25th. I'm not yet sure how I'll mix those classes in with the normal grammar lessons, or the 1-1 reading I'm starting with Kara next week week. Work has been kind of crushing lately as well.

RawToast Wrote:Went over a review section and e days in my Sou Matome grammar book over the weekend, with pretty nice results -- just one question wrong each time! It's early days in the book and I already have some experience with the grammar from reading. If Sou Matome continues to be easy, I'll 'graduate' to Kanzen Master.

Nice! I envy you! On the N4 the grammar was so hard for me! I have some dream of confidently passing the grammar portion of the N3 but I don't know if it will happen!

[RawToast]

Quote:Nice! I envy you! On the N4 the grammar was so hard for me! I have some dream of confidently passing the grammar portion of the N3 but I don't know if it will happen!

I was the same at N5, everything else was easy -- but I struggled like hell with the grammar. I find paying attention to the following points works well for grammar:

* What verb ending does it follow (e.g. stem, short, past)
* Particles used (especially for determining あげる、もらう、くれる which are still tested in N3)

I found many of the 'chose the correct answer to go in the gap' questions for grammar will often fall into one of two camps:

* All/3 out of 4 of the answers have the correct word, but only one uses the correct form.
* All/3 out of 4 of the answers seem correct at first, but are wrong due to the particles used. Like how verbs such as 会う use に, etc.

I find the 'arrange in the correct order' questions to be the hardest. Hopefully I'll be better this time around!

I don't think my current study method for grammar is anything special. I just read Sou matome then manually make the cards in Anki. Sometimes I check my "An Integrated Approach"/Tae Kim decks to see if there are any cards using the point and move them into my active deck for extra practice.

Passed N3.

Vocabulary/Grammar: 50/60
Reading: 60/60
Listening: 47/60
Total: 155/180

As expected that I'm not doing so well on listening part. Guess I need to listen to more stuffs if I want to survive that section on N2 on December. News particularly ;__;

ariariari and Rawtoast, have you decided to take N3 on December? If so, good luck

Results are out and I have failed the N3 again which is so disappointing.
In Dec 2014 90/180, now in July 2015 88/180, yes I have worse results than before.

Language Knowledge 29/60 (vobab A, grammar C)
Reading 21/60
Listening 38/60

For Dec 2014 I used so-matome series, for July used Kanzen Master reading. I have other km book but did not use them because for example the grammar book has little explanation in English.

I think I failed again for two reasons, 1. half-assed study (because I think I could pass with little effort)
2. Due to time constraints in exam rush to read sections and find correct answers.

So reading and grammar are my weakest,
I think buying more books is a waste of time, I plan to redo the so-matome reading and grammar and than Kanzen master reading book again.

Not sure what to do as I have hit brick wall, any suggestions?

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CK_Byuu, well done! Yes, I am planning on taking the test this December and probably again in the summer If i fail or squeeze through, I want to retake the exam -- but my study will move towards N2/Native materials for next december.

redshoulder, that's two close failures right? 5 and 7 marks off

You have plenty of options to go for, and whatever you do is bound to improve your ability. Although, there is one thing I wouldn't do and that's studying from the same books once more. After all, what's is insanity?

Maybe you should look into trying Tobira. I hear varying responses to the level it's for -- some say N3, others say it approaches N2. There's plenty of reading in the book for practice and it should provide more explanations for the N3 grammar. There's a pdf online somewhere if you're struggling to find the stupid price it goes for (in the UK it's £50/$75 and Genki 1 and 2 are now £65/$100 each!)... I ended up importing it from Amazon.jp

Otherwise, I'd bite the bullet and go for your Kanzen Master book. I know how you feel about the explanations, as I feel the same way when I open the book! It is meant to be the more comprehensive book and has plenty of JLPT style practice.

Yes it is 2nd time, and there is extra pressure to do well next time.

The last time I used the sou-matome books was sometime last year and have not opened books sense and I did not try the questions and the end of each chapter. All I did was read each section then create anki cards for them as well as download the premade anki decks, that is partly the reason for failure I think.

However I read most of the Kanzen master book, so I have to use an eraser to remove the answers

I have heard about tobira, but I prefer the stripped down version cram books with useful info only.
Maybe I will get more sample paper type books aswell.

Failed the N4, first try. I only got a 61/180 total score.

Even though, I'm not disappointed, since I did only a few days of studying (around 12 days in total). Maybe I should have pushed a bit harder, but I think I'm going to put the language out of focus for now, since I'm already overwhelmed by work & study.

I guess I will try the N3 next December, when I'll be able to put more work in it.

I definitely feel that it's doable (I mean my ultimate goal, the N2), I got this, I just need more time to actually have the information studied "sink in".
Because of the time constraint, I only crammed around 2000 words, but only the pronunciation+meaning not the actual writing with Kanji

So yeah, better luck next year

@redshoulder
That's too bad man, I also failed the N3 once. Just want to say regardless of the shortness of explanations, the KM grammar book is great because the format and the difficulty level of the exercises is just like the real thing. In a way grammar is down-and-dirty, you just apply patterns, you don't reall need in-depth explanations as long as you get the principle. That said I also had books like the Dictionnary of Japanese Grammar series to complement my exercise books, so it's not like I don't understand what you're saying. Maybe that could help you too.

In that case I will give KM grammar book a try. I think I have enough time to start the KM grammar book aswell as to review the other sou-matome grammar and reading and KM reading book.

Reading is also a problem, NHKwebnewseasy helps a bit but I think i need to time myself when doing the above exercises in book. Always I have studied at a leisurely pace but I think it is necessary to force myself into a time limit in order to read faster.

@redshoulder For me, Dictionary of Japanese Grammar and its sentence decks helped me lot. I think the explanation is not that bad. Sou matome grammar book on the other hand is not that good to me. A little too simplistic on the explanation part.

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CK_Byuu Wrote:@redshoulder For me, Dictionary of Japanese Grammar and its sentence decks helped me lot. I think the explanation is not that bad. Sou matome grammar book on the other hand is not that good to me. A little too simplistic on the explanation part.

Heh, you should try the N4-N5 sau matome grammar/reading book! The explanations in the front are tiny and usually aren't more than 5 words long! BUT if you go to the translations in the back of the book, there are longer explanations... why they did that I have no idea!

Redshoulder, I guess you should try finding some N3 level reading material to help improve your reading speed. I guess you can use: Reading Tutor and Choko Choko Library to compliment NHK Easy. Otherwise it's probably worth just going through some old tests (N3 or JLPT2).

@CK_Byuu Congrats! That's a very impressive score!

@redshoulder That's too bad! My advice is to look beyond self-study. This forum is filled with people who had lots of success with self-study, but it's not for everyone. I highly recommend trying the Japanese Online Institute's (JOI) N3 course:

http://www.japonin.com/study-jlpt-n3.html

It costs $9 for a trial of 3 one-hour classes.

RawToast Wrote:

ariariari Wrote:Stats for the month, including mature + learning:
grammar: 459 (today) - 462 (July 31) = -3 (huh?)
kanji: 853 (today) - 870 (July 31) = -17 (huh?)
vocab: 4,929 (today) - 4,870 (July 31): + 59

Eh? What went on there? I guess you deleted some old/pointless cards?

ariariari Wrote:Just bought a new set of 5 lessons from JOI. The first one is on Tuesday, and I learn ～かわりに・・・, which I'm looking forward to. In 2 Thursdays I have a lesson with Kara on italki and we're gonna continue with the soumatome reading book.

Are you taking the N3 specific lessons at JOI? I was considering trying those out.

I am going to post my stats next Monday. Just added ~200 new cards to go through with some stuff from Genki 2, Sou Matome, An Intermediate Approach, and the last of my Minna no Nihongo cards (Morphman said I needed to do them...). I don't expect to finish them by next week, but I should make good progress by then.

Went over a review section and e days in my Sou Matome grammar book over the weekend, with pretty nice results -- just one question wrong each time! It's early days in the book and I already have some experience with the grammar from reading. If Sou Matome continues to be easy, I'll 'graduate' to Kanzen Master.

I just wanted to follow up on this for a sec. It turns out that even though the number of learning+mature went down, the number of mature has gone up.

Mature today vs end of July
mature grammar cards: 411 (today) - 393 (end of July) = +18
mature kanji cards: 663 (today) - 641 (end of July) = +22
mature vocab cards: 4,199 (today) - 4,097 (end of July) = +102

At the end of the month I'll calculate all these things at the same time and try to reassess if I made a mistake counting one of them, or whether I can somehow interpret one number going up and the other going down in some meaningful way.

Anyway, I like that at least all the mature count went up

Hmm, that is good resource, I think online is only option for me as there are no Japanese speakers in my area.
However I would feel more comfortable with a face to face discussion.

But this time I think my motivation to pass is stronger than it was last time, so I think I will have more meaningful study, when I was studying for July's exam it was more of a have to than want too and I would rush study in order to watch tv etc. Also not doing anki during the weekends did not help.

redshoulder Wrote:Hmm, that is good resource, I think online is only option for me as there are no Japanese speakers in my area.
However I would feel more comfortable with a face to face discussion.

But this time I think my motivation to pass is stronger than it was last time, so I think I will have more meaningful study, when I was studying for July's exam it was more of a have to than want too and I would rush study in order to watch tv etc. Also not doing anki during the weekends did not help.

If you want face-to-face then this teacher might be your best bet:

http://www.italki.com/teacher/591602

I realize that it's not in person, but it's 1-1 via Skype. I took a trial lesson with him and liked it. The downside with private lessons is that they're more expensive. But I was totally impressed with him when I took that 1-1 lesson.

[RawToast]

Never seen this site before, it might be useful to someone here: http://japanesetest4you.com/

This is an example N3 page:
http://japanesetest4you.com/flashcard/le...#more-3416

I don't know where the sentences come from, but they may be useful if you need more examples (unless they'be been ripped from a book).

+1 on iTalki, it's great

End 'o da month anki stat update:

Compared to the end of July:
mature grammar cards: 410 - 393 (end of July) = +17
mature kanji cards: 660 - 641 (end of July) = +19
mature vocab cards: 4,224 - 4,097 (end of July) = +127

Total: 5,294 - 5,134 (end of July) = + 160

Compared to January 20 (my earliest record for 2015):
mature grammar cards: 410 (today) - 208 (1/20) = +202
mature kanji cards: 660 (today) - 478 mature (1/20) = +182
mature vocab cards: 4,224 (today) - 3,246 (1/20) = +978

Total: 5,294 - 3932 (1/20) = +1,362

Lots of new vocab! It's pretty cool that I'm on tract to have a full thousand new mature vocab cards next month.

This month it looks like I have a bunch of classes. For example, I recently bought another 5 lessons from JOI, and I took the first lesson in the pack last week. So I have 4 more. Also, this Thursday I have an italki lesson where we're just focusing on the sou-matome reading book.

[RawToast]

Since the 1st of July:

Sentence Cards:
Mature Cards: 2303 (1996) +307
Young&Learn: 373 (418) -45 (Could mean anything :S )
Total: 2676 (2411) +265

Kanji Stats:
815 total unique kanji. (781) +34

-----------------------

My Kanji stats are beginning to slow down. As I am trying to target my Anki deck towards N3, I expect the number of kanji to come to a halt. I think I must have added less new cards last month, that's no big problem as long as some progress was made.

Still working on my current set of ~135 cards (remaining Minna, some Tae Kim, and AIATJ)

Practiced reading with the usual graded readers. I had some pdfs for 'level 2', which were actually easy -- I can still remember finding the 'level 1' books hard. It's really encouraging when you notice progress yourself