From what I've seen, most of the people who bash AJATT have either 1. Tried it but gave up half way and said "it didn't work.", or 2. not tried it at all. Unless you've done the WHOLE 10,000 sentences + a substantial amount of immersion, can you really knock it?

[ファブリス]

I guess I should take my own advice and clarify what I meant by the use of "plain english". I wasn't referring to language proficiency (why would I? and why would I judge someone else's english proficiency when I'm not a native english speaker myself).

I was trying to give a hint to some people in this thread to cut down the backhanded, snide remarks (ie. indirect, ambiguous language). Whether it is directed towards an individual, a group, or the thread itself.

Examples:

"I've just read this passage and it made me think of this thread. "

Seeing the grammar section of this forum I think I have to agree with him

Two wide ranging, ambiguous comments that put down other individuals / groups / or the topic itself.


If your post consists of a citation of some random author and then concludes "this makes me think of this forum / thread / person / <xyz>" then that is a low effort post. What you're saying is that you have little interest in the discussion at this point, and nothing to add. Probably a good idea to stop posting in the thread.

If your post consists of smug remarks about the (implicitly obvious to you) low quality of the discussion or any particular person's post, but you are not actually adding any pertinent commentary (ie. on topic): probably a good time to bail out of the thread. Again, low effort comment.

Criticizing a discussion or someone's post is fine. Be straightforward instead of making snide comments. Here's a simple tip that always goes a long way: focus on what the person says instead of focusing on the person. Find fault with someone's argument? Debate the argument/idea, not the person. Then the person will be less defensive, and your point may have a chance to get across.

Whether it is on internet forums or person to person, social skills apply. Internet forums are not rubbish bins. They are everywhere these days and it's a useful skill to develop to learn to communicate in this limited format (avatar + text). So going back to my "plain english" expression, in general being clear and direct instead of making ambiguous remarks, helps a lot to get your point across and create an atmosphere conducive to valuable exchange.

TLDR Admin: please cut down the snide remarks and low effort posts. Thank you.

ファブリス Wrote:Criticizing a discussion or someone's post is fine. Be straightforward instead of making snide comments. Here's a simple tip that always goes a long way: focus on what the person says instead of focusing on the person. Find fault with someone's argument? Debate the argument/idea, not the person. Then the person will be less defensive, and your point may have a chance to get across.

I have always wondered whether discussion would involve more discussion (and less my team versus your team bickering) if all posts on the internet were anonymous to the non-admins. So you could not know if you were supposed to

1. attack the poster and disagree with what they said because they are not on your team, or

2. agree with them, and praise their insight since they are on your team.

It's not workable, of course, but the fact that people attach meaning to a post based on who said it is the most basic logical flaw. Everyone says brilliant things, and everyone says stupid things. And everyone who is still thinking has said some stuff they no longer believe, or even would hate someone else saying now. Sometimes the most useful discussion comes with what basically is a younger, less experienced version of oneself. Sometimes it comes from reminding an old fart that they are just yelling at the damn kids on their lawn.

It seems like a lot of the Khatzumoto opinions are assuming he is stupid or wrong because, being human, he's said some stupid stuff, or horrors among horrors, he has changed his mine about stuff, so he is clearly WRONG!

Or assuming that he is brilliant and a hero, because being human, he's said some brilliant stuff, and inspired some people.

Personally I just wish he'd turn down the music. He's a loud neighbor. (just kidding!!!)

There is a pile of stuff tied to his name. It's more than likely it's not even all his writing.

kapalama Wrote:I have always wondered whether discussion would involve more discussion (and less my team versus your team bickering) if all posts on the internet were anonymous to the non-admins.

This wouldn't change the tone of discussions, even if bans or temp lock-outs were a more common thing. A certain amount of value needs to be tied to an account for people to be more mindful of what they say.

vix86 Wrote:

kapalama Wrote:I have always wondered whether discussion would involve more discussion (and less my team versus your team bickering) if all posts on the internet were anonymous to the non-admins.

This wouldn't change the tone of discussions, even if bans or temp lock-outs were a more common thing. A certain amount of value needs to be tied to an account for people to be more mindful of what they say.

I think that, looking at certain boards used primarily (only?) by anons, we can determine that trash talk, trolling, shit posting, etc increase as the level of anonymity increases.

vix86 Wrote:

kapalama Wrote:I have always wondered whether discussion would involve more discussion (and less my team versus your team bickering) if all posts on the internet were anonymous to the non-admins.

This wouldn't change the tone of discussions, even if bans or temp lock-outs were a more common thing. A certain amount of value needs to be tied to an account for people to be more mindful of what they say.

Rewards are better than punishment for long term behavior changes so you'd need some kind of reward for the behavior you want to see more of.

I agree with the Admin that all my posts in this thread (and anywhere else for that matter) were 'low effort'. But isn't the thread 'low effort'? It is. But it was fun. I'm really sorry that I'm not allowed any more fun. Language fora are NOT for serious discussions. When I'm serious I get depressed.

cae99v Wrote:the only people argueing about whether or not AJATT makes you fluent are the ones who aren't fluent....

The sillier the merrier.

I'm an exception.

But it's high time to take the Admin's advice and move away.

buonaparte Wrote:But it was fun. I'm really sorry that I'm not allowed any more fun.

Hey I complained about koohii not allowing fun like a year or more ago too! Although I think people were a lot more uptight about any discussion than they are now.

Also I'd just like to say all of your posts are great and please don't stop. I definitely don't understand what you're actually trying to say half the time but it's still fantastic.

Hey, this forum actually has good administration. Go figure!

Semi-on-topic: I never kept track of the AJATT blog or anything. The closest relation I have to the matter is being subscribed to an AJATTer on youtube who gives good general language learning advice and isn't dogmatic at all. I don't know how the blog is in any way, I don't read it.

Hi everyone,

just checking in to say that applying AJATT's concepts from June 2013 allowed me to pass N1 in December 2014, while mantaining a nice social life and going well at my engineering university (I'm graduating in time, this September).
I also do some running 4 to 6 days a week.
Now I can read technical materials and even talk about them (conversation on quantum mechanics with chicks? check.) Basically I can read and talk about everything.
Never practiced writing so I'm weak on that point but my mail/chatting is still sexy.

I know I promised an explaining post/thread back in the days when I passed N1 and now seeing all this AJATT skepticism/hate I regret I haven't done it yet. Anyway feel free to mail me if you want to ask me anything.

Dear reader please leave hate to losers and do your reps.
ピース✌

sunehiro Wrote:Hi everyone,

just checking in to say that applying AJATT's concepts from June 2013 allowed me to pass N1 in December 2014, while mantaining a nice social life and going well at my engineering university (I'm graduating in time, this September).
I also do some running 4 to 6 days a week.
Now I can read technical materials and even talk about them (conversation on quantum mechanics with chicks? check.) Basically I can read and talk about everything.
Never practiced writing so I'm weak on that point but my mail/chatting is still sexy.

I know I promised an explaining post/thread back in the days when I passed N1 and now seeing all this AJATT skepticism/hate I regret I haven't done it yet. Anyway feel free to mail me if you want to ask me anything.

Dear reader please leave hate to losers and do your reps.
ピース✌

Literally (literally [literally]) the best thing in this thread.

Well that and learning that Khatz is Kenyan royalty.

mattimus Wrote:Literally (literally [literally]) the best thing in this thread.

I couldn’t agree more.
Nothing can beat a happy ending. It’s a pity though. Because it’s so melodramatic, you never know if you should cry for joy or just cry. But you get a warm feeling and that’s always nice.


sunehiro,
Congratulations! You travelled faster than light.
You must be (Newton + Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck + Heisenberg + Einstein + Hawking) squared.
I don’t envy you though.


Back to the original question: Where’s K.?
NOBODY KNOWS. Is he travelling faster than light too?


EDIT
Misspelt Einstein.
Only K. knows what else I misspelt. But he's nowhere to be found, so he can't correct me.

sparky14 Wrote:From what I've seen, most of the people who bash AJATT have either 1. Tried it but gave up half way and said "it didn't work.", or 2. not tried it at all. Unless you've done the WHOLE 10,000 sentences + a substantial amount of immersion, can you really knock it?

Agreed.

ryuudou Wrote:

sparky14 Wrote:From what I've seen, most of the people who bash AJATT have either 1. Tried it but gave up half way and said "it didn't work.", or 2. not tried it at all. Unless you've done the WHOLE 10,000 sentences + a substantial amount of immersion, can you really knock it?

This is illogical. Who would do the entire 10,000 sentences if it wasn't working for them(or they found something that worked better) after the first 5,000 or so?

mattimus Wrote:Well that and learning that Khatz is Kenyan royalty.

I was thinking about this earlier, someone said that him having money was an advantage, but didn't he have like 3 part time jobs when he was studying Japanese? So he didn't have money? Or he lied about having a job? It seems he probably had an average amount of money for a person going to school.

buonaparte Wrote:sunehiro,
Congratulations! You travelled faster than light.
You must be (Newton + Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck + Heisenberg + Einstein + Hawking) squared.

I'm just a common folk who did his hard work the proper way and then got called 'talented' by common folks who didn't. But don't bother too much, it happens all the time (little joke here).

Ah, you misspelt Marx, too, but since you probably don't believe in such a dumb and ineffective method like googling things I actually have to congratulate you for getting the others right.

Quote:I don’t envy you though.

You probably do. But I'm ok with envious people, they make my average results look like great achievements.

sunehiro Wrote:Ah, you misspelt Marx, too, but since you probably don't believe in such a dumb and ineffective method like googling things I actually have to congratulate you for getting the others right.

ah, but you misspelt Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck.

kameden Wrote:

mattimus Wrote:Well that and learning that Khatz is Kenyan royalty.

I was thinking about this earlier, someone said that him having money was an advantage, but didn't he have like 3 part time jobs when he was studying Japanese? So he didn't have money? Or he lied about having a job? It seems he probably had an average amount of money for a person going to school.

I always assumed Khatz came from a wealthy background. Call me politically incorrect, but I figured a guy from a poorly industrialized African nation, speaking with a British accent, and going to university in the U.S. was likely from that country's 1%.

As some person wisely stated before in this thread, Khatz exaggerates things. One of the three jobs was cleaning a bookstore. Were the other two ever stated? I don't recall.

But nonetheless, if Khatz being "Kenyan royalty" was an advantage, I think it would be about the mindset that comes along with being of affluence more than the monetary flexibility.

yogert909 Wrote:

sunehiro Wrote:Ah, you misspelt Marx, too, but since you probably don't believe in such a dumb and ineffective method like googling things I actually have to congratulate you for getting the others right.

ah, but you misspelt Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck.

This is why one should hesitate before insulting people.
( T_T)＼(^-^ )

sparky14 Wrote:From what I've seen, most of the people who bash AJATT have either 1. Tried it but gave up half way and said "it didn't work.", or 2. not tried it at all. Unless you've done the WHOLE 10,000 sentences + a substantial amount of immersion, can you really knock it?

I'm not sure about everyone, but my two criticisms of AJATT are that (1) it has a high opportunity cost in terms of social relationships and time invested and (2) we don't really have any data that shows that it's more efficient or effective than other methods, and yet it is presented like it is and actively insults other methods.

Actually doing the 10,000 sentences doesn't really fix either of those, does it? Especially since, one person can't have had two different learning experiences, so a single person doing AJATT learns nothing about how other methods compare. So, yes, I can be critical without having done any AJATT at all--which, indeed, I haven't.

sunehiro Wrote:Ah, you misspelt Marx, too,

If you mean Max in Max Planck, I must have misspelt Planck too. It should have been either Plank or Prank.

Anyway, I AM a marxist. I believe in Marx Brothers. I must admit that I even read 'Das Kapital' by their famous father Karl Marx. Pretty heavy stuff, about three kilogrammes. Sorry, I've no idea how much it is in pounds.

PS
I know it has nothing to do with the thread at hand, but does the thread at hand have anything to do with itself?

Anyway, it's been fun so far. Please don't delete it.

sunehiro Wrote:

buonaparte Wrote:sunehiro,
Congratulations! You travelled faster than light.
You must be (Newton + Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck + Heisenberg + Einstein + Hawking) squared.

I'm just a common folk who did his hard work the proper way and then got called 'talented' by common folks who didn't. But don't bother too much, it happens all the time (little joke here).

Ah, you misspelt Marx, too, but since you probably don't believe in such a dumb and ineffective method like googling things I actually have to congratulate you for getting the others right.

Quote:I don’t envy you though.

You probably do. But I'm ok with envious people, they make my average results look like great achievements.

There's no reason to take buonaparte seriously. I'm not sure if his post quality is just low or if he's an "intentional troll", but you'd do better just ignoring it when he comes at you. He's bitter.

ryuudou Wrote:There's no reason to take buonaparte seriously. I'm not sure if his post quality is just low or if he's an "intentional troll", but you'd do better just ignoring it when he comes at you. He's bitter.

I mean, buonaparte doesn't take himself too seriously; in some circles that's a compliment. I think of him as playful rather than bitter--not all trolls are evil.

Yes, as the Wise Rabbi in Crimea says, 'Life is too serious to take anything seriously.'

By the way, Crimea - it's Ukraine. And Ukraine, well, it's Europe. And Europe, well, it's somewhere over there.