Just got a notification from Anki host site that they had a copyright infringement complaint against the decks I uploaded over five years ago. Without going into details, I guess that iKnow (formally Cerego) did not renew their creative common license. This creates quite a few issues since many decks have been created based on their content given its high quality. While I argue that existing content is not affected by changing in licensing (only new content has to adhere), I am not the one that hosts the Anki server and has to deal with any and all of the headaches that come about from a litigious corporation that happen to exists in the same country.

Anyway, I posted my response to Anki but I get the feeling that my decks will be pulled permanently since they're created on data I get from the internet.

To be honest, when we first found out about iKnow six years ago most of us were skeptical. This was high quality material being offered for free. Most of us on the board verified about the free use via CC license before posting links to material. I understand their desire to not renew the CC license and even understand their regret to offering it in the first place. However, that they want to remove all material made due to that original license is pretty shady. I doubt they have any legal leg to stand on, but it not something the guy that offers Anki services should have to deal with.

So, if the links to the relevant Anki decks get pulled (specifically common core 2k/6k) you'll know why.

Oh, man, that sucks that they reneged on the CC license. That comes across as kind of slimy on their part IMO. I can see that it cost them a bit of time and money to create the content in the first place-- but then don't put it under CC if it's that much of a big part of your plan for making money. >_<

And yeah, it's not fair to make Damien deal with a potential legal fight over it, because they can cost a small fortune even if you're in the right.

It would be kind of cool to have the community create a community version of Core2k/6k/10k, using its own word lists (not just copying core's lists word for word, but having a good think about what's really important). It could either be really simple: here is a list of common words, run it through E2A for sentences if you want, or it could be a full-blown project with CC media photos, verified good sentences from an open source like Tanaka (Tanaka is kind of weird and unreliable here and there, so the sentences would need some kind of checking), and volunteers to read the sentences in good standard Japanese.

It would be kind of cool to see "Community Core," but maybe that's just me. It would be a major undertaking, and probably a real pain in the butt to make it happen.

Isn't Nayr's Core 5000 kind of filling the gap?

If Damien is forced to pull the deck, might he also be forced to delete, or maybe no longer allow, syncing by
people that have ready downloaded it?

Hinsudesu Wrote:Isn't Nayr's Core 5000 kind of filling the gap?

I was thinking the same exact thing. I love Nayr's deck. The only change I'm starting to make to it is that I'm adding pictures to each card, slowly..

That's awful! I can't believe they would do something like that. A lot of people have used Nukemarine's and other Core decks to boost their vocabulary, including me. Companies shouldn't be able to do things like this IMO.

Woodgar Wrote:If Damien is forced to pull the deck, might he also be forced to delete, or maybe no longer allow, syncing by
people that have ready downloaded it?

No, your Anki account is private. Only you even know what's in it.

Stansfield123 Wrote:

Woodgar Wrote:If Damien is forced to pull the deck, might he also be forced to delete, or maybe no longer allow, syncing by
people that have ready downloaded it?

No, your Anki account is private. Only you even know what's in it.

I really do hope so :/

Seems nearly all of the Core content has been pulled from the site. There is still one Core10k (2k + 6k + 10k) deck up with full audio so for those thinking about pursuing Core I'd grab that now while it's still there.

Stansfield123 Wrote:No, your Anki account is private. Only you even know what's in it.

It's important to realize this is a personal promise from Damien and not backed by any technology at all. Although the synchronization connection is encrypted the data is stored out in the open on your computer and his servers. This is all made fairly clear in the Anki Web Terms of Service.

If you need absolute privacy you shouldn't be synching with Anki Web at all.

I am not aware of any precedent for cloud providers being forced to remove private copyrighted data but if that does happen don't forget there are an army of Anki plugin developers who can definitely provide workarounds and assist Damien in engineering long-term solutions.

Ok, I've been searching the Wayback archives looking for the various Creative Common license assignments. Found some for the developer section including the API part where they basically opened up ALL their material to 3rd party developers back in October of 2008 and included the CC license.

https://web.archive.org/web/200812160144...now.co.jp/

If anyone has archived communication with members of iKnow staff or Cerego at that time I'd be appreciative to get a copy or link to it. Basically, I want to put that company on full blast in the social media circles and I'd like to have my ducks in a row prior to doing it. I've been messaging Damien so hopefully he'll give me the exact details of Cerego's claim.

Basically, Cerego may be committing a legal no no in trying to say that CC no longer applies (https://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequen...license.3F). CC applies for the legal life of the copyright. There's no take backsies on this.

I don't have any archived communication from the iKnow staff, but I would suggest taking screenshots of any archived pages you want to use, just in case. If I remember, it's fairly easy for site owners to get their content removed from archive.org. Also, 頑張って！
I'm really hoping there's something people can do to stop this, or at least not let them get away with it quietly..

Nukemarine, if you're going to go to the mat on this then contact the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF.org) ; this is exactly their kind of issue. And you're right, of course, you can't (legally) take back material you've released under a certain set of copyright rules. You -can- of course re-release under a new copyright, but that really only puts any new material under the new rules.

(Also I'm not sure what material was and wasn't community generated, but they have even worse grounds if they are trying to claim full copyright on material that was only given to them on the understanding that it was CC licensed. Any such material they -don't- have the right to re-release under a more stringent copyright.)

edit: I should note that people -do- change the rules of copyrighted material all the time, but they can only do so because their original copyright notice includes a rule that lets them change the rules. That kind of clause appears a lot in EULAs but doesn't appear in Creative Commons or GPL.

Ok, someone just sent me a copy of the e-mail that Cerego sends in response to anyone asking for clarification on their content. They're playing the equivalent of a cop asking "can I look in your trunk?" routine. Basically they tell you a fact "Cerego is no longer applying Creative Common license to our work" then add the request "we ask you please do not use our material in your database". They're not telling you to remove their material that's free to use under creative common, but they would like it if you did not. Naive persons not versed in CC license though interpret this as being they have to remove Cerego's material.

Anyway, I've contacted an employee of Cerego and will get further clarification on Monday Japanese time either from him/her or from their point of contact number in regards to copyright. Something tells me somebody at Cerego has been playing the weasel and iKnow is about to experience the Streisand effect in full force. They've apparently been messing with others wanting to use their material since last year, but now they're fucking with Anki which has offered free services for over 6 years and benefited thousands. That will not merit a free pass if true.

Seriously? I use the Core decks EVERY DAY, and my Japanese has gotten so much better as a result. This just seems like a really low thing to do. Is there any chance that if someone still has the original deck files on hand, they can be used instead?

*Sigh* And I was making some really good progress on Core 6K, too... Guess I should've downloaded everything together...

Raulsen Wrote:Seriously? I use the Core decks EVERY DAY, and my Japanese has gotten so much better as a result. This just seems like a really low thing to do. Is there any chance that if someone still has the original deck files on hand, they can be used instead?

*Sigh* And I was making some really good progress on Core 6K, too... Guess I should've downloaded everything together...

Not sure if this is the right one, but apparently someone uploaded a version of the core decks, and linked to it on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/c...k_deleted/

As a heads up to any other deck authors that may be reading this thread, I was required to (electronically) sign an updated terms and conditions form for Ankiweb. Specifically because I put up a shared deck before they updated the t&c (presumably in response to the core inquiries). I'd imagine that some valuable shared decks might just get deleted after enough time if the original deck authors don't sign the form. This is a worrying turn of events, to say the least...

I wonder if the new Anki T&C, in principle, means that Heisig decks should be pulled as well?

I had to sign the new T&C before I could sync my collection to AnkiWeb. In the new T&C there is this part which I understand to be about private decks too:

Anki Terms and Conditions Wrote:Acceptable Content
By uploading or entering any material into our website, you assert that it does not contain:

Content that you do not have the intellectual property rights to use, due to copyright, trademark, patent or other protection.
Content designed to subvert the correct functioning of software or hardware, such as viruses and code exploits.
Content that is illegal in Australia, Germany, the United States, or your country of residence.

I'm not sure though, but it seems to be about private decks, because it comes right after "Deck Privacy" and there is another section in the T&C about "Sharing Decks." Is there reason to start worrying about the stuff that's on my AnkiWeb now?

I saw that today too. It makes me very concerned about my private Sub2SRS deck.

Other companies make it clear you can upload copyrighted content as long as it remains private. From the LingQ Help:

LingQ Wrote:Can I import copyrighted content if I don't share it?

Yes, you can. You can import anything you like into your own account for your private use. All content you import is private unless you explicitly share it after you have imported it.

I'm worried this means I should start syncing locally via iTunes...

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:I'm worried this means I should start syncing locally via iTunes...

There's always a number of backups saved on your computer and (I believe) phone. So if Damien ever did take down our private core-based decks, we would have copies. I believe it is unlikely Damien would ever mess with our our private collections, but it would be good to get clarification from Damien on that.

Dunno, I wonder if we took up a donation for a perpetual anki license if that wouldn't be the best outcome for everyone involved. It's not like Cerego is going to make a lot of extra money once with the decks off anki, especially considering the bad mojo they are creating for themselves. I see the removal of the core decks from anki as a negative thing for our community.

I already have my copies of the core decks which I feel I am entitled to under the old license, so I really have no horse in this race. I just see that the core decks are a great resource and go well with anki. So I'd be willing to donate $10 or $15 if we could make Cerego go away and have the decks back on anki's site for others to use. Maybe do a format like a kickstarter so nobody pays unless we're successful..

Waddya think?

yogert909 Wrote:

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:I'm worried this means I should start syncing locally via iTunes...

There's always a number of backups saved on your computer and (I believe) phone. So if Damien ever did take down our private core-based decks, we would have copies. I believe it is unlikely Damien would ever mess with our our private collections, but it would be good to get clarification from Damien on that.

Yeah, I worded that poorly. I know my data is safe. I just appreciate the convenience of the sync function. I can manually sync, but it would be a pain, especially when all I'm syncing is my daily status.

I don't use core (I'm a skritter guy), so that side worries me less. (I do feel for everyone impacted by this, though, and offer whatever meager support I can provide.) I'm more concerned that this rule applies to decks made off of drama and anime using subs2srs.

If Damien pulls the Core decks because of this then he's a profoundly stupid person. You can't revoke a CC license from released content. That isn't how copyright works.

If Cerego were to release an updated version of Core then they would have the opportunity to put a new license on the new version, but the existing versions already released under CC can not have the CC removed from them.

An owner can't just change the terms of a licensing agreement whenever they want unless that right is reserved by the owner somewhere within the text of the license. In the case of CC, the owner gives up the right to change the license agreement when they choose to release the material under CC.

CC Website Wrote:What happens if the author decides to revoke the CC license to material I am using?

The CC licenses are irrevocable. This means that once you receive material under a CC license, you will always have the right to use it under those license terms, even if the licensor changes his or her mind and stops distributing under the CC license terms. Of course, you may choose to respect the licensor’s wishes and stop using the work.

This seems relevant guys. Anki is now making you pull any shared content that may be copyright breaching, and asking that you attach your legal name to your account.

http://i.imgur.com/1Rluf7q.png