So I know there's already an NHK Easy thread, but that thread seems to be more focused on a kind of "let's do reading practice" and "just the facts" approach. I think that's great for people to get their feet wet with reading Japanese news, but I have different needs. Recently I stopped doing so many flashcards and started reading Japanese Google News a lot more, but I have nobody to talk about it with.

Basically, the atmosphere I want to create here is a thread where we all treat each other with respect as bilingual people, and we discuss Japanese news we like. I prefer the 政治 and 社会 sections, but anybody is free to post any news they think other people might find interesting.

So here's the first round:

1) Protests at the 官邸 today over the assassination of Goto Kenji by Isis.
http://blogos.com/article/104713/

2) 19 year old college student murders 77 year old woman in Nagoya. They investigate her Twitter, and find her talking about purchasing poison, sympathizing with convicted murderers, and a section of her bio that claims she hopes to go to prison after graduation.
https://www.chugoku-np.co.jp/local/news/...ory_id=256

I'm assuming this will be in English? I guess since the OP is, it should be acceptable, but I want to make sure it's clear.

Anyway:
1.) Less of an assassination and more an execution. I'm not surprised that there were protests, but considering the attitude of "it's his own fault for being there" that was being expressed by so many, I'm thinking that the protestors are possibly a minority. Haven't talked with any Japanese about it, but that was the general feeling I was getting from the internet and 'friends of friends'.

2.) I'm curious if there has been any recent (read: in the past decade) media or school-kid attitude changes in regards to violent crime. Reason being that I've heard some really crappy people getting sympathy over here in the States based on media coverage sensationalizing them (and even showing sympathy, in the case of traumatizing childhoods and such); I've never known anyone who idolized a murderer, but it seems like it's possible for that to happen if the right circumstances play out.
Between this kid and the boy that was sticking toothpicks in snack packages and other such things, it makes me wonder if the news is showing more or if there's an increase in such activities among young people.

Hi erlog,

Such a thread is a nice idea although I cannot promise to be always tuning in.

Anyway, I am going to take your bait.
" Protests at the 官邸 today over the assassination of Goto Kenji by Isis. "

These protests seem to be about how the government (and mass media in tow) are using the assassinations as an excuse to change the pacifist constitution. I admire the idealism of the protesters but I think it is normal that people in Japan will perceive (whether it is a correct perception or not) that the Article 9 does put Japan at a disadvantage when enemies can attack you anywhere in the world. May be Article 9 is just too beautiful for an ugly world like ours.
Anyway, let's hope there is no crazy chain of events from all of this (Islamists murder Japanese nationals, Japan revises Article 9, Chinese nationalists pressure insecure Chinese communist government to respond, China grabs goat island, Japanese nationalists pressure Japanese government to respond...)

sholum Wrote:I'm assuming this will be in English? I guess since the OP is, it should be acceptable, but I want to make sure it's clear.

Yeah, conversation can be in either language, but the articles should be in Japanese. The thing in the OP about "respecting each other as bilingual speakers" is that if a Japanese word works better in a sentence then we can throw it in without fumbling around for some weird English word. 官邸 is a good example of that. It's much much shorter than "the official residence of the prime minister."

sholum Wrote:Anyway:
1.) Less of an assassination and more an execution. I'm not surprised that there were protests, but considering the attitude of "it's his own fault for being there" that was being expressed by so many, I'm thinking that the protestors are possibly a minority. Haven't talked with any Japanese about it, but that was the general feeling I was getting from the internet and 'friends of friends'.

Can you link to articles that show that sentiment about Goto in Japanese? I knew there was that kind of feeling about the first hostage, but I thought people felt differently about Goto due to him being an already pretty well-respected journalist before he went over there for his job. I'm interested to read about that.

sholum Wrote:2.) I'm curious if there has been any recent (read: in the past decade) media or school-kid attitude changes in regards to violent crime. Reason being that I've heard some really crappy people getting sympathy over here in the States based on media coverage sensationalizing them (and even showing sympathy, in the case of traumatizing childhoods and such); I've never known anyone who idolized a murderer, but it seems like it's possible for that to happen if the right circumstances play out.
Between this kid and the boy that was sticking toothpicks in snack packages and other such things, it makes me wonder if the news is showing more or if there's an increase in such activities among young people.

There's kind of an ongoing interest in Japan in weird murders and details about them. It's a kind of thing that also existed for a long time in other countries, but only fell out of fashion recently in the US when the "objective journalism" movement swept in. You see it in the British tabloids a lot too.

I don't think there's any increase in crime rates among young people. I just think the news has a fascination with these kind of stories because they get clicks. I fell for it myself. I've been checking for updates on this story daily since I first heard about it last week.

erlog Wrote:

sholum Wrote:Anyway:
1.) Less of an assassination and more an execution. I'm not surprised that there were protests, but considering the attitude of "it's his own fault for being there" that was being expressed by so many, I'm thinking that the protestors are possibly a minority. Haven't talked with any Japanese about it, but that was the general feeling I was getting from the internet and 'friends of friends'.

Can you link to articles that show that sentiment about Goto in Japanese? I knew there was that kind of feeling about the first hostage, but I thought people felt differently about Goto due to him being an already pretty well-respected journalist before he went over there for his job. I'm interested to read about that.

My take on it was that originally people blamed both of them for getting themselves into a bad situation. In university I remember reading about a situation a long time ago where a similar thing happened, only the prisoner was released and made it back to Japan. Everyone was mad at him. I found the Japanese response really strange, but after living in Japan for a long time it's kind of predictable, haha. (If anyone knows other examples of this I'd be curious to know--I don't remember the specifics at all)

Anyway, at first when I talked to people that seemed to be the attitude. But now, especially now that they're dead, people are talking about Goto in a positive light.

I enjoyed reading about the protestors' criticisms of the media in the first article. It's unbelievable that the media edited out the part where Goto's mom said that the incident mustn't lead to hate (「憎悪の連鎖にしてはいけない」). I know the Japanese press is generally cozy with the government, but it's looks undeniable that there's some agenda collusion going on when even テレ朝 (isn't Asahi supposed to be the "progressive" voice that's critical of the government?) cuts out that part of Goto's mom's speech along with all the other TV stations (NHK, TBS, フジ, and 日テレ).

Tzadeck Wrote:My take on it was that originally people blamed both of them for getting themselves into a bad situation. In university I remember reading about a situation a long time ago where a similar thing happened, only the prisoner was released and made it back to Japan. Everyone was mad at him. I found the Japanese response really strange, but after living in Japan for a long time it's kind of predictable, haha. (If anyone knows other examples of this I'd be curious to know--I don't remember the specifics at all)

Anyway, at first when I talked to people that seemed to be the attitude. But now, especially now that they're dead, people are talking about Goto in a positive light.

I randomly came across this article a few days ago: http://www.japanfocus.org/-Marie-Thorsten/3157 (sorry, it's in English)

It is about the kidnapping and release of 5 Japanese civilians in Iraq in 2004 and about how the Japanese public responded. It seems that they received a harsh bashing for their lack of 自己責任 and someone even made a movie called "Bashing" based on the experiences of one of the returnees (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0456836/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1).

A couple of weeks ago one of my Japanese friends told me how the media in Japan was alive with talk of the kidnappings and that 「自己責任だっていう声がすごく多い」. I haven't actually paid that close attention to the Japanese media, but what I have seen has mostly been the opposite: praise of the captive's work in Syria etc.

Although there was one blog post about four days ago by a talento (that has been featured on Huffington Post Japan and BBC News) where the writer among other things criticizes Mr. Goto's mother for asking the government to save her son when really she should be apologizing for the trouble that he is causing. The blog author even seems to want Mr. Goto to kill himself so as not to act as a bargaining chip for ISIS. (Although I might have misunderstood that last part).

http://ameblo.jp/dewisukarno/entry-11983065803.html

justusperthes Wrote:Although there was one blog post about four days ago by a talento (that has been featured on Huffington Post Japan and BBC News) where the writer among other things criticizes Mr. Goto's mother for asking the government to save her son when really she should be apologizing for the trouble that he is causing. The blog author even seems to want Mr. Goto to kill himself so as not to act as a bargaining chip for ISIS. (Although I might have misunderstood that last part).

http://ameblo.jp/dewisukarno/entry-11983065803.html

Early on in the piece, スカルノさん does say:

私も 一刻も早く 後藤さんが 解放されることを祈っています。

And further on, about 後藤さんのお母様:

たびたび 後藤さんのお母様が マスコミに登場していますが、 私は腑に落ちません。

But yes, she does lambaste the mother, exhorting her to apologize for all of the trouble her son has caused. (Which she did, causing one major US news outlet to snark that "The mother, in typical Japanese fashion, apologized...")

In the end, スカルノさん says if she were his mother, she would tell him that she wishes he would kill himself:

不謹慎ではありますが、後藤さんに話すことが出来たら
いっそ 自決してほしいと 言いたい。
私が 彼の母親だったら そう 言います。

Can't say I'm totally at odds with the feeling of discontent here.　後藤さん abandoned his wife and newborn baby on a fool's errand. I feel sorry for him and his family, but he also brought this upon himself.

Thanks for the blog link, btw; I rather enjoy her style.

As for other topics, I've been fascinated by the reports of everything from necklace clasps to human teeth appearing in McDonald's food in Japan.

http://www.j-cast.com/2015/01/09224999.html

Here's a Japanese news personality attempting to separate fiction from fact:

http://blog.livedoor.jp/hasegawa_yutaka/...94641.html

Somewhere on 2ch, there is person raging about a conspiracy, by the Chinese, to destroy Japan through tainted McD's chicken nuggets. Mark my words!

http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASH225GRYH22ULFA023.html :
French economist Thomas Piketty, author of 'Capital in the 21st Century', visited Japan and answered questions on Nico Nico Douga. 民主党 met with him, and was pretty pumped about it. Abe's response was interesting in how similar it was to how all "pro-business" politicians answer these questions; Growth uber alles and a rising tide raises all boats. There was also a sprinkling of Japanese exceptionalism from economists interviewed about Piketty.

One of the funniest quotes from an economist, "we've got a ballooning welfare state[due to the aging population], and so we gotta 消費税増税," implying there's no other taxation method that could possibly work than a hugely regressive one that hits old people and poor people the hardest. Yeah, let's redistribute the elderly's money back to them via social services, that's gonna work splendidly. We couldn't possibly have more strict inheritance, wealth, or income taxes.

vileru Wrote:I enjoyed reading about the protestors' criticisms of the media in the first article. It's unbelievable that the media edited out the part where Goto's mom said that the incident mustn't lead to hate (「憎悪の連鎖にしてはいけない」). I know the Japanese press is generally cozy with the government, but it's looks undeniable that there's some agenda collusion going on when even テレ朝 (isn't Asahi supposed to be the "progressive" voice that's critical of the government?) cuts out that part of Goto's mom's speech along with all the other TV stations (NHK, TBS, フジ, and 日テレ).

Well, it's hard to say if there's explicit talking points being handed down from Abe's government. In Japan, as well as the US, these media companies are big companies themselves. They have their own interests to look out for, and in this case they seem to line up with 自民党 which has had a stranglehold on Japanese politics almost continuously since WW2.

So even if there aren't marching orders being handed down, you'll still get a lot of implicit collusion since cozying up to people in power is almost never a bad decision. In the case of the 自民党 you can also be pretty sure they're going to stay in power, and so that's going to pay dividends.

vix86 Wrote:Somewhere on 2ch, there is person raging about a conspiracy, by the Chinese/Koreans...

This is never not true. It should be the subtitle to this thread.

[Zgarbas]

The 19-year-old girl is really making the news around here... it's all everyone talks about .

@sholum, since the girl is such a straight-from-the-movies sociopath she isn't getting any sympathy whatsoever... Quite a few people are really criticising her former school and 'the Japanese way of doing things' over the fact that they didn't do anything about her poisoning her highschool classmate beforehand, but it's mostly foreigners. She seems quite hell-bent on making herself look as bad as possible, and even if Nancy Grace were to descend from the airport with all of Fox News's historical cast, they couldn't get an ounce of sympathy for her.

Zgarbas Wrote:The 19-year-old girl is really making the news around here... it's all everyone talks about .

@sholum, since the girl is such a straight-from-the-movies sociopath she isn't getting any sympathy whatsoever... Quite a few people are really criticising her former school and 'the Japanese way of doing things' over the fact that they didn't do anything about her poisoning her highschool classmate beforehand, but it's mostly foreigners. She seems quite hell-bent on making herself look as bad as possible, and even if Nancy Grace were to descend from the airport with all of Fox News's historical cast, they couldn't get an ounce of sympathy for her.

Is there any evidence she poisoned that boy, though? Last I heard it seemed like tabloids drunkenly connecting dots to assassinate her character before the police investigation even finishes.

Zgarbas Wrote:The 19-year-old girl is really making the news around here... it's all everyone talks about .

@sholum, since the girl is such a straight-from-the-movies sociopath she isn't getting any sympathy whatsoever... Quite a few people are really criticising her former school and 'the Japanese way of doing things' over the fact that they didn't do anything about her poisoning her highschool classmate beforehand, but it's mostly foreigners. She seems quite hell-bent on making herself look as bad as possible, and even if Nancy Grace were to descend from the airport with all of Fox News's historical cast, they couldn't get an ounce of sympathy for her.

I meant criminal idolization/sympathy that could have pushed her in that direction... But yes, she seems to be a sociopath (or otherwise sick in the head), so it'd be difficult to determine just what could have led to this situation.

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:不謹慎ではありますが、後藤さんに話すことが出来たら
いっそ 自決してほしいと 言いたい。
私が 彼の母親だったら そう 言います。

Can't say I'm totally at odds with the feeling of discontent here.　後藤さん abandoned his wife and newborn baby on a fool's errand. I feel sorry for him and his family, but he also brought this upon himself.

This is actually exactly what I take issue with. People think that Haruna wasn't worth saving because it was a lost cause and that going to a dangerous area for this lost cause was a stupid idea. However, I believe there is something noble about Goto risking it all to save someone the rest of society had deemed worthless. Yes, Goto risked it all, lost big time, and caused problems for many people. Nevertheless, he died believing that (or so I assume), no matter whose life it is, all human life is valuable and worth taking risks for.

Yes, we could argue that someone else should have done it or that Goto's approach could have been better, but I think no one else in the world was in a better position to rescue Haruna. Goto had extensive experience in the Middle East and had befriended Haruna and even convinced Haruna to return to Japan once before. If anyone was meant for the task, it was Goto.

Some things aren't worth risking your life or even the risk of causing problems for others. A life is. Problems are almost always either temporary or solvable. A life lost is lost forever.

My favorite Teddy Roosevelt quote comes to mind:

Teddy Roosevelt Wrote:It is not the critic who counts; nor the one who points out how the strong person stumbled, or where the doer of a deed could have done better.

The credit belongs to the person who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; who does actually strive to do deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotion, spends oneself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at worst, if he or she fails, at least fails while daring greatly.

Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.

http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASH232T0TH23UJHB001.html :
67 year old unemployed man steals a goat in the backseat of his car. "I just wanted to have a goat."

Vileru, I certainly don't believe that Haruna's life wasn't worth saving. I just don't see any scenario in which Gotou going to free him from the grips of an armed terrorist organization could have ended in success. And he had responsibilities at home that he up and abandoned in the name of this quixotic quest.

I don't question the sanctity of human life. But I have to wonder what the hell he was thinking.

@gaiaslastlaugh
Looks like my memory was jumbled. I thought Goto and Haruna were captured after Goto had gone to rescue Haruna. In fact, Haruna had already been captured. I stand corrected. There was no chance that Goto would've succeeded. Now Goto's motives seem murky and suspicious to me...

erlog Wrote:One of the funniest quotes from an economist, "we've got a ballooning welfare state[due to the aging population], and so we gotta 消費税増税," implying there's no other taxation method that could possibly work than a hugely regressive one that hits old people and poor people the hardest. Yeah, let's redistribute the elderly's money back to them via social services, that's gonna work splendidly. We couldn't possibly have more strict inheritance, wealth, or income taxes.

I think the biggest problem in Japan is that its hard to find good sources to tax. Inheritance tax might work well, but I believe they've upped it once in the past decade as is. Wealth taxes aren't worth it in my opinion because Japan doesn't have nearly as many wealthy people as in the US. The CEOs/Presidents just don't make the same level of money.

I think the govt. has started working on the problem NOW after waiting so dam long. They need/are to [strongly] encourage women to start working and create households with two full time parents. This will add another person that will be putting money into the pension system and help the welfare costs. Plus when people have more money they can spend more so you can tax more. Ultimately though, they'll have to find a other countries and allow them open, easy immigration into Japan to work.

[Zgarbas]

erlog Wrote:Is there any evidence she poisoned that boy, though? Last I heard it seemed like tabloids drunkenly connecting dots to assassinate her character before the police investigation even finishes.

As she released it in an affadavit, I don't think it's the tabloids talking.

erlog Wrote:http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASH232T0TH23UJHB001.html :
67 year old unemployed man steals a goat in the backseat of his car. "I just wanted to have a goat."

Who wouldn't want a goat? It'll mow your lawn, dispose of garbage (food stuffs), fertilize the yard, and if it's a female, you might could get some milk from it, though you might need to steal a male to get that started. All in all, a goat could be better than chickens.

http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASH2B4D1MH2BUTNB00R.html :
City mayor helps block the installation of air conditioners in elementary/junior high schools. Popular referendum receives more than 50% support, but fails to get 1/3rd voter participation. Mayor disingenuously blames voters. Most Japanese elementary/junior high schools do not have heat/air conditioning. Parents want it, in this case, because opening windows defeats the purpose of the soundproofing done to combat the noise from the local military base.

http://news.biglobe.ne.jp/domestic/0217/...08390.html:
68 year old Kyoto woman kills 2 people with poison.

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/society/news/2...22210.html:
Teen arrested for constructing 2.08m air gun built to shoot screws and bolts. No incidents of injury to people or animals are suspected. Teen learned how to build the gun online, bought the freely-available parts himself, and called it "Launcher."

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/201502...50149.html:
LDP plans to start constitutional reform efforts in April.

Did you see Leslie Gore passed away today? She sang It's My Party. I assume this was a big hit in Japan. I saw Leslie perform live in 1988.

http://youtu.be/XsYJyVEUaC4

RIP Leslie!

erlog Wrote:http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASH2B4D1MH2BUTNB00R.html :
City mayor helps block the installation of air conditioners in elementary/junior high schools. Popular referendum receives more than 50% support, but fails to get 1/3rd voter participation. Mayor disingenuously blames voters. Most Japanese elementary/junior high schools do not have heat/air conditioning. Parents want it, in this case, because opening windows defeats the purpose of the soundproofing done to combat the noise from the local military base.

Japan has a 200% of GDP government debt already. So opening the windows during recess is probably a better idea than borrowing even more.

Or, if the parents really want it, they can always just pay for it themselves.

sholum Wrote:Who wouldn't want a goat? It'll mow your lawn, dispose of garbage (food stuffs), fertilize the yard, and if it's a female

Where is this going?

sholum Wrote:, you might could get some milk from it

Oh thank God.