john555 Wrote:I would think there would be a positive correlation between the ability to translate from English into Japanese and the performance on virtually any Japanese test.
I.e., someone who's a whiz at translation will probably do better than someone who "just can't do it because it's too hard".

One could argue that ultimately translation practice only makes you better at translating. And the JLPT isn't a translation test. One direct benefit you could get by translating from Japanese to English would be in reading comprehension, but I'm not sure how the other way round would be useful for the JLPT.

john555 Wrote:Why?

I would think there would be a positive correlation between the ability to translate from English into Japanese and the performance on virtually any Japanese test.

There are a few reasons. One, is that like EratiK said, the JLPT is not a translation test. With sections like the reading section, you plain don't have enough time to translate. No matter how good you are at translating, it will always be slower than understanding the target language as-is. Even if you are very quick at translating, it's still slower; those time differences add up. The JLPT is also fill in the blank/cloze deletion tests, so if you want to maximize your chances of success, one should be practicing those types of questions. The other huge reason, why for the higher levels of the JLPT translation isn't a helpful, is that the higher levels of the test will be testing vocab and grammar that either A) doesn't translate in to English nicely or B) Translate into the same thing in English.

Quote:I.e., someone who's a whiz at translation will probably do better than someone who "just can't do it because it's too hard".

If we extrapolate this further, someone who understands the the langauge without translating will do better than someone who "just can't do it because it's too hard".

RandomQuotes Wrote:

john555 Wrote:Why?

I would think there would be a positive correlation between the ability to translate from English into Japanese and the performance on virtually any Japanese test.

There are a few reasons. One, is that like EratiK said, the JLPT is not a translation test. With sections like the reading section, you plain don't have enough time to translate. No matter how good you are at translating, it will always be slower than understanding the target language as-is. Even if you are very quick at translating, it's still slower; those time differences add up. The JLPT is also fill in the blank/cloze deletion tests, so if you want to maximize your chances of success, one should be practicing those types of questions. The other huge reason, why for the higher levels of the JLPT translation isn't a helpful, is that the higher levels of the test will be testing vocab and grammar that either A) doesn't translate in to English nicely or B) Translate into the same thing in English.

Quote:I.e., someone who's a whiz at translation will probably do better than someone who "just can't do it because it's too hard".

If we extrapolate this further, someone who understands the the langauge without translating will do better than someone who "just can't do it because it's too hard".

I would question whether such a person really understands what they're hearing/reading.

john555 Wrote:I would question whether such a person really understands what they're hearing/reading.

Of course they do!
What language do you translate to when you're listening to/reading English?

john555 Wrote:I would think there would be a positive correlation between the ability to translate from English into Japanese and the performance on virtually any Japanese test.

I.e., someone who's a whiz at translation will probably do better than someone who "just can't do it because it's too hard".

It depends on what you mean by translation. Literal translations can be relatively easy/fast in many cases (there are still times when it just doesn't work), but natural translations are often painfully time-consuming in comparison and involve rearranging, omitting or even rewriting chunks of the original. These skills are completely separate to understanding the text, and it's why many fluent people still suck at translating to a near-unbelievable level. Ultimately, when I translate, I don't start thinking about English until I've read and understood the text in Japanese.

Practising translation will help to improve your understanding and awareness of the language if you're doing it properly, so in that sense it will help you with N2. I think the point people have made is that in the exam you won't have time to actually do any translation, and the thinking process is completely different. So, you might want to practise reading for speed and comprehension in addition to any translation you do.

Translation from J->E can help highlight parts you don't understand, particularly if you've reached the point in your studies where you can ignore stuff you don't know and still read something.

I have to agree with what the others say though; being able to translate something from English to Japanese has very little to do with the JLPT (or really with Japanese proficiency as a whole). If you're trying to produce Japanese, your goal is not to translate something from English. It's to say or write what a Japanese person would say in that situation, or to express that thought. The only time you should be translating is if you actually are translating something from English to Japanese for a Japanese person to read.

In particular, translating from English to Japanese is (in my opinion) a fairly high-level skill that should not be given priority in your studies. It's really not possible without having a good understanding of the target language to know how to express things in a natural way.

(As for the JLPT, there is no English on the N2 or 1, so E->J translation is pretty much useless.)

john555 Wrote:I would question whether such a person really understands what they're hearing/reading.

You keep questioning advice from people who have been there and seen all that (my own advice included).

It's against your own interest to question such advices but it looks like it's going to take quite some time for you to realise that.