Zgarbas Wrote:Nah, Aichi ken is where all the Brazilians are at . I was really surprised to see that streetsigns in tokyo *don't* have Portuguese subtitles.

Sounds like a good plan. Don't hesitate to revise it along the way, but as a foundation it has pretty much everything you need. Supplement it with native material freely (I also only planned out actual *study* time and supplemented whenever I felt like it, but tbh native material wore me out rather than helped, so not by much; Your Mileage May Vary).

I didn't know about Aichi ken. Good to know.

With english it was relatively easy. I just jumped in native material and started translating stuff as I progressed. The structure of japanese grammar is completely distinct, so one needs at least a basic knowledge to start consuming native content. I almost can't wait to finish Minna no Nihongo 2 soon and start with some native material heheh.

Arupan Wrote:> OP
@Stansfield123 kind of blew my post out of proportions ^^; I wasn't talking about getting a Japanese girlfriend in particular but rather enjoying yourself while staying in the country. It's just my opinion but if do come with that attitude, you could waste a wonderful once in a lifetime (?) opportunity. Japanese tend not to talk to people who aren't very proficient in their language, so you could end up talking mostly with other Brazilians or English speakers. Even people who have a high level of ability can't break the ice that easily and end up speaking mostly to their fellow-countrymen. This is especially true for Chinese, Brazilians, and Koreans, since there are many here.

Off-topic:
I think statistically the prefecture with most Brazilians is Gunma.

Oh, I get it. I'm sorry for misinterpreting it hahahah. I indeed plan on enjoying as much as possible when I get there. If possible, I'll try to couchsurf through the whole country when I get some time off from school. I know a guy that did this and he said it was an amazing experience. I hope that until there I am capable of holding at least some basic conversations.

What you said about talking mostly with other brazilians or english speakers is totally true. I'm trying to avoid this in order to put me in a situation where I'll have to use the japanese language. There's a university that accepted 35 or so brazilian students last year and a lot of them ended up talking almost only between themselves. The one that I'm aiming for accepted less people from my country.

drdunlap Wrote:It's exactly as easy as running a marathon!
And he's ready and willing to train for years for that marathon.
I am only assuming he has legs.
(But, if he doesn't, I hear they make some sweet prosthetics these days.)

Hahah, sweet analogy. One may get out of breath while running for so much time, but the finish line is always worth getting to.

Zgarbas Wrote:Wikipedia says it's Aichi, and that supports what I've heard from my colleagues.
I also think that there are better things to do in Japan, but wouldn't discourage anyone from spending their time studying; one's sense of purpose can be stronger than one's sense of traditional 'fun', and that's totally cool. Also, it's totally possible to fit in intensive study whilst having a life, if you're good enough at time management.

Yeah, I agree that it's totally possible to fit study with enjoying yourself. If go to Japan, but end up being secluded in my room all the time, it would be a waste of a golden opportunity.

yudantaiteki Wrote:You should probably keep some flexibility in your goals and plans as well. Speaking from a purely statistical standpoint, passing N1 in 2.5 years is unlikely. Are you the kind of person who is able to adjust goals based on your progress, or are you the kind of person who will get discouraged and potentially quit if you're not making as much progress as you had hoped to?

Of course I'm not saying that you personally will not be able to accomplish your goal. But I've seen people get very discouraged when their progress didn't match what they had hoped to accomplish, and for some people, more modest goals can actually be helpful.

I really don't mind if I can't reach this particular goal. I set this timeframe because the JLPT for when I come back from japan coincidentally ends up being 2 and half years from when I first started studying. I'm pretty flexible when it comes to adapting my plans. I try to anticipate the possible outcomes, but I know that it won't work most of the time. I won't quit, for sure. That's one thing that I'm certain I won't do. I like to aim high, because it encourages me to do my best.

I also started learning Japanese in order to better understand Japanese media. I think it's a good, content-focused goal that will give you a lot of input, which as others have said is very important to picking up the language.

speaking from personal experience, I went from beginner to N1 in 3 years time (while living in Japan), so I would say that 2.5 years is a reachable goal, provided you like to study, and study,and then study some more. Especially if you have tools like Anki at your disposal from day 1.

My major recommendations vis a vis your study plan are 1) if JLPT N1 is your end goal, focus on JLPT materials from early on (practice tests and the Kanzen master series will get you a long way). JLPT 1 was my major goal point when I first arrived, and I spent the majority of my third year focusing strictly on the N1 and still barely passed. It also wouldn't hurt to have JLPT 2 as a midway point so you have an idea of your progress. After a year and a half of studying non-JLPT stuff I thought I was ready to sit N2, but realized afterwards that my study methods and materials were not focused in that direction so I bombed it.

Also, if you plan to go the distance, take a look at RTK (in conjuction with Anki and this site) for Kanji. If you lay the groundwork early on, it will make memorizing those thousands of characters a lot easier later (tho it still is a slog).

Finally, as a caveat, don't be afraid to adjust your timetable to focus on non-JLPT stuff as well. JLPT can be valuable as a personal goal, but you have to balance that (artificial) goalpost with more meaningful ways of studying as well. I studied like hell to reach the N1, but in retrospect it was probably to the detriment of other areas of my Japanese ability like speaking and mastery of relatively more basic (and thus more important) grammatical forms.

If JLPT is your goal, and if you focus on that goal from early on, then I think you can pass N1 in 2.5 years. However, in the long term, JLPT doesn't matter all that much, and you might have a more rewarding experience just letting your Japanese grow naturally at its own pace by conversing with people and reading manga and books. In that case, passing in 2.5 years might not be possible tho.

Good luck!

[Zgarbas]

Oh yeah, I totally second the taking JLPTs along the way, if you can afford it. I found that experience with past tests helped me a lot. When I took the N5 I was a mess, but by the time I got to the N1 it got better (in terms of stress and anxiety levels), and familiarity with the format, timing, etc. are usually the key to passing the higher levels.

Arupan Wrote:> OP
@Stansfield123 kind of blew my post out of proportions ^^;

Nah, you pretty clearly said "Want to have a girlfriend? Don't come to Japan."

klloud Wrote:>
I understand well what you mean. However, I would dare to say that I'm used to heavy and disciplined routine studies. Here in Brazil, to get into a good public university, we have the feared "vestibular" (ENEM is replacing everything, but it was different back in my time). It's a pretty content heavy admission test, in which you have to know every single thing teached in high school. It doesn't matter if you don't have good grades in your past school life. If you get one of the highest scores, you get a seat.

Well, I did the vestibular thing, got my bachelor's degree in pure mathematics, a master's degree in applied mathematics and now I'm a PhD student by University of São Paulo. So I know exactly what you are saying about studying a lot, but you are comparing two different things. When you study to objectively improve your life, like getting into college, or better, studying to get out of it, you have a real motivation. You know what I'm saying, when you get into college you have better life options and can immediately get a well paid job and you have a lot of prestige.

But, why should learning Japanese really help you out? If you think objectively, you don't even need to know Japanese to go to college in Japan. This is the reason I say you have to take it easy. It is easy to overestimate your willpower and the task in hand and you brain you tell you that you should stop studying Japanese because you are in Japan and have better things to do, like studying for you tests or go out to enjoy you big opportunity to visit beautiful places in Japan.

Learning Japanese is just like run a marathon.

.

AdmiralKelvinator Wrote:I also started learning Japanese in order to better understand Japanese media. I think it's a good, content-focused goal that will give you a lot of input, which as others have said is very important to picking up the language.

For the time being, I'll probably keep the N1 as my end goal, but I may change it along the way. Maybe, consuming native content instead of studying for a specific test would be more fun, even if I'm not able to pass the test in 2,5 years.

Zgarbas Wrote:Oh yeah, I totally second the taking JLPTs along the way, if you can afford it. I found that experience with past tests helped me a lot. When I took the N5 I was a mess, but by the time I got to the N1 it got better (in terms of stress and anxiety levels), and familiarity with the format, timing, etc. are usually the key to passing the higher levels.

When I finish Minna no Nihongo 2, I'll try to print some N4 test models and see how well I do. It's important to get used to the test format. Going completely blind into it is very risky. Thanks for the advice

jahnke Wrote:Well, I did the vestibular thing, got my bachelor's degree in pure mathematics, a master's degree in applied mathematics and now I'm a PhD student by University of São Paulo. So I know exactly what you are saying about studying a lot, but you are comparing two different things. When you study to objectively improve your life, like getting into college, or better, studying to get out of it, you have a real motivation. You know what I'm saying, when you get into college you have better life options and can immediately get a well paid job and you have a lot of prestige.

That's pretty cool! I love math. I was part of a scientific initiation program for 2 years. It was some sort of introduction to a master's degree and I studied some linear algebra, analysis, abstract algebra and differential geometry. I'm not sure yet, but it's a possibility that when I finish college, I'll get a master's degree in the area.

However, I'm not sure if it is so different. Of course languages, math and science in general are completely different and we have to think in different ways for each, but in the end, to reach a good level of knowledge in any field, we have to dedicate a lot of time. There's indeed the motivation factor to get into and out of college, so that's maybe why we work so hard.

Now that you say it, that makes sense. There's no objective or practical use of japanese when it comes to my career or anything like that. It's mostly for fun and entertainment. However, I still think that since it has been leisure for me, I may try to get motivated as long as possible. But I know that I may get bored or tired at some time if I overstimate my abilities, so I'll take into consideration your advice. I'll take it easy. It's been only 3 months. It's easy for me to say that I'll try to keep that much motivated, but many things may change in the way. Nobody knows what lies ahead in the future!

Have a wonderful week!