So I finished RTK back in January, however I kinda rushed through the end and didn't go back over missed kanji so I have a huge missed pile. I've found that a lot of these kanji are just kanji that don't stick what so ever. So I told myself that I am going to start to draw pictures for each one. I'm not an artist but I've found that even drawing simple pictures really helps to solidify the image for me. I submit to you one page out of several that I have so far.



I try to make the primitive elements as big as possible, write a story with it, and also write the kanji. Then I also write the story in RevTK. Just curious does anybody else do this? (Note: I've changed some elements like water has become a brita water filter, etc...)

I sometimes draw pictures but I don't recall drawing any for RTK. To learn the word for donkey, ろば, I drew a picture of a donkey with a Hamburgler/Zorro style eye-mask... Seems to have worked pretty well.

I can't say that I have, but that is actually a really good idea for kanji that just won't stick.

I didn't do it systematically, but for some characters that were confusing for me I asked my girlfriend to draw a picture of the story. I can still remember the drawings when I see those kanji (a few months after I've finished with the book),

[ファブリス]

Haha, I like the welding man sketch (dissolve).

I've been thinking often of what RtK would look like as a picture book. In particular I'm wondering how effective it could be. I think the quality of the artwork would make a difference though, so far as it is not drawn by you. It would have to be striking, but it could be like watercolor with a "dreamy like" atmosphere, or really saturated and bright and full of angles. Or maybe the style could change per image to really sink the emotional appeal of the story. It would certainly be awesome to browse through. But it would take a lot of effort and I think the artwork could make it or break it... come to think of it... perhaps the artwork should be utterly simple and even childlike, as that would leave more room for imagination.

It's not the same as that kanji picture book, where you liken the shape of a character to that of images. That's definitely not RtK approach. A RtK picture book would be like a picture book of a memory palace, each picture represents the "code" used in the characters and thus the primitives would appear again and again, but as we know in RtK just because a primitive is called "box" it doesn't have to look exactly the same way each time.

Does anyone know of such attempts been made before ? Books of visual mnemonics ?

The Kanji-Pict-o-Graph is pretty close, but he drops the ball big time. When I think about it, doing an abbreviated version of say Grade 1 and 2 Kanjis (in RTK order or close to it with additional kanji and primitives to cover them) as a RTK pictograph and story book would sell very well. Parents would get it for their kids, then realize they can use it too.

Actually, I really think that a Flash version of stories would work also. What I picture in my head is the picture version of the story animated in the background, the actual stroke order done in the foreground while a narrator tells the story and gives any extra information (such as what the keyword actually means and other stuff to insure accuracy along with memorization). Such a thing is beyond any ability of mine, but I can see it being the best way to get this method to a wider public (posting it on Newgrounds or something).

Nice pics, skinnyneo :lol:
I always had this grand dream of producing an adult picture version of the RTK stories. I find that strange stuff easy remember. It'll never hapen though...

ファブリス Wrote:Haha, I like the welding man sketch (dissolve).

I've been thinking often of what RtK would look like as a picture book. In particular I'm wondering how effective it could be. I think the quality of the artwork would make a difference though, so far as it is not drawn by you. It would have to be striking, but it could be like watercolor with a "dreamy like" atmosphere, or really saturated and bright and full of angles. Or maybe the style could change per image to really sink the emotional appeal of the story. It would certainly be awesome to browse through. But it would take a lot of effort and I think the artwork could make it or break it... come to think of it... perhaps the artwork should be utterly simple and even childlike, as that would leave more room for imagination.

It's not the same as that kanji picture book, where you liken the shape of a character to that of images. That's definitely not RtK approach. A RtK picture book would be like a picture book of a memory palace, each picture represents the "code" used in the characters and thus the primitives would appear again and again, but as we know in RtK just because a primitive is called "box" it doesn't have to look exactly the same way each time.

Does anyone know of such attempts been made before ? Books of visual mnemonics ?

I only know of the kanji pict-o-graphics book that was mentioned here. Another method that i attempted was to give each radical a specific color. So for example if 田　was red then I would always write it in red. The method didn't stick for very long however, and didn't really help.

I agree with what you say about a picture book version. I think that because I am drawing these myself that they stick. If the pictures were done by another person and you just looked at them they would have to be done in a very vivid style so that they would stick in your mind. Kinda of the "do" method of learning compared to the "sponge" method.

Nukemarine Wrote:The Kanji-Pict-o-Graph is pretty close, but he drops the ball big time. When I think about it, doing an abbreviated version of say Grade 1 and 2 Kanjis (in RTK order or close to it with additional kanji and primitives to cover them) as a RTK pictograph and story book would sell very well. Parents would get it for their kids, then realize they can use it too.

Actually, I really think that a Flash version of stories would work also. What I picture in my head is the picture version of the story animated in the background, the actual stroke order done in the foreground while a narrator tells the story and gives any extra information (such as what the keyword actually means and other stuff to insure accuracy along with memorization). Such a thing is beyond any ability of mine, but I can see it being the best way to get this method to a wider public (posting it on Newgrounds or something).

I think a flash version would be cool too. Actually what I always wanted was a flash version for grammar. I thought it would be cool to have characters or actions on the screen and then a sentence with blanks for particles, conjugations, etc. Then you would enter what you think are the right answers and then the picture would animate according to what you put in. I think it would be a great way to visually see what particles do in the mind of Japanese people!

Kanji pict-o-graphics does it but its totally wrong. I got that book long ago because it looked interesting, but I can honestly say I didn't learn and remember a single kanji with that book.

What I think it takes is a picture that depicts primitives in a story, rather than KP-O-G that just has the primitives in the same positions as they are in the original kanji. skinnyneo's drawing for "tooth" is a perfect example; the primitives are not in the same shape as the original kanji, but they show a memorable scene that's hard to forget.

skinnyneo Wrote:I think that because I am drawing these myself that they stick. If the pictures were done by another person and you just looked at them they would have to be done in a very vivid style so that they would stick in your mind. Kinda of the "do" method of learning compared to the "sponge" method.

It's not really who draws the picture that matters, but whose the concept story is. It's the same reason why heisig's own stories don't work as well as personal stories.
As I said, I had my girlfriend draw a few stories that I provided her, and that worked fine.

[Katsuo]

Here's one for koro/goro 頃 "about that time" no. 2791 (quite a common kanji that's in RTK3).

Story: An alarm clock with a unique design: You set it for, say, 7:00 am, and at about that time the clock reaches out with a spoon and hits you on the head.

nac_est Wrote:

skinnyneo Wrote:I think that because I am drawing these myself that they stick. If the pictures were done by another person and you just looked at them they would have to be done in a very vivid style so that they would stick in your mind. Kinda of the "do" method of learning compared to the "sponge" method.

It's not really who draws the picture that matters, but whose the concept story is. It's the same reason why heisig's own stories don't work as well as personal stories.
As I said, I had my girlfriend draw a few stories that I provided her, and that worked fine.

Hmmm. I agree that making things personal is a big deal, and for some stories, yes, absolutely other peoples stories images, etc., can and do work (I think Katsuo's image is brilliant!). But still, in my own experience with kanji anyway, I have found that some just don't stick unless I do the whole process myself. The kanji with shark for example I just couldn't get down, despite everybody's excellent stories. But now calamity, whirlpool, and overdo will never leave my head.

Katsuo Wrote:Here's one for koro/goro 頃 "about that time" no. 2791 (quite a common kanji that's in RTK3).

Story: An alarm clock with a unique design: You set it for, say, 7:00 am, and at about that time the clock reaches out with a spoon and hits you on the head.

Hahaha! I like this. I'm not in RTK3 yet, but I won't forget this kanji now!

Skinnyneo,
I probably didn't express my thoughts clearly, sorry!
What I meant is that I made those stories, and I visualized the image. Then I explained to my gf exactly what she had to draw. I only did that because I like the way she draws, but it's otherwise a totally personal mnemonic. It's like I did it myself (only better-looking).

So, I agree with what you said

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7937/...ownas0.jpg

I thought it would be fun to revive this thread for a bit and at times post a random drawing of one or several kanji and the stories connected with them, hence this imageshack link.

Sounds like a good idea Jay, I'll have to try that out today!

Heisig's method based on "imaginative memory" and it seems you all associate it with "images" (as pictures) only. But I think it means far more. When I think to a story I see pictures, hear sounds, feel the wind in my face, or taste or smell things and above all, I feel it. It's the same when I read a good novel, I live in it. A single simple picture or a movie is not enough to me. I need to imagine a whole scene.

I snapped some photos of pages of my little RtK notebook. Most of them are completely ridiculous (and some even with embarrassing hiragana as a bonus (I cannot write it)), but I don't think they need to be "smart" if I can understand them.

http://www.flickr.com/gp/11361892@N05/8Zhyt5

I think your drawings are awesome, NooNoo! ^_^ Really cool.

And, nothing wrong with your kana, it actually looks great!

I'm too lazy to actually draw pictures, most of the time. I think I did 3 actual drawings so far (I'm up to frame 700 today)... But I might do some more drawings for the kanji I confuse often.. It seems to work well.

Some great drawings for the kanji there, NooNoo.

They would make an amazing 'special edition' Heisig....

Or even a 'special edition' RevTK.

ファブリス Wrote:I've been thinking often of what RtK would look like as a picture book. In particular I'm wondering how effective it could be.

nac_est Wrote:It's not really who draws the picture that matters, but whose the concept story is.

Okay, so what about combining the two? It`s pretty impractical because of size as RTK is already a brick, but wouldn`t it be fun to have built-in drawing space right in the book? A make-your-own-picture-book. I`ve got a small notebook attatched to my RTK, but this would be taking it one step further...

Maybe when ebook readers get a little more exciting.

Here is a good example of the combination of the two concepts:
http://www.mystere-des-kanji.com/

Nice, isn't it?

I guess it can be very effective: A picture says more than a thousand words - and obviously helps to remember.

I have all of the characters organized into locations based on their ON yomi. All of the kanji interact with each other based on what area they are in. I drew lots and lots of pictures during this process. Plus it makes it pretty cool when you learn other characters, because you can find out information that you didn't know previously. For example, to stop an alchemist from creating an oasis in the middle of a dessert, the evil villain shoots rockets at him. As I learned more characters, I could add more detail to this overall story. As it turns out, the evil villain flew in on a seagull to try to stop the alchemist from getting his job done.
So when I see kanji, it's like seeing lots of quotes from movies I like. "Oh, that's the big wooden structure that Indiana Jones had to climb to the top of!"

[ファブリス]

Matthias : wow, great site. I don't know how effective that would be but that's close to that illustrated version of RtK I wished sometimes existed. Unfortunately, there seems to be a great difficulty to reach the main stream with mnemonics based material. I hope I'm wrong though, perhaps there's just not enough people really trying to put these books out there.

These are the neatest drawings! I hadn't thought about drawing the characters out. Brilliant!

Matthias Wrote:Here is a good example of the combination of the two concepts:
http://www.mystere-des-kanji.com/

Nice, isn't it?

I guess it can be very effective: A picture says more than a thousand words - and obviously helps to remember.

That is kinda a cool site. who does that, is it one of RevTK memebers?

Wish it was in English!