As I did a cursory look at the grammar point for JLPT, it seems that some of these grammar points are not even used in real conversation and are mostly for literature use.

I do want to take the JLPT exams and pass up to N1, but at what level does the grammar stop being useful in real life?
I've heard that JLPT N2 is the point where you can do business Japanese?

Thank you

By "real life", if you mean only conversation, then you might be fine with N2. I see N1 grammar all the time when I read novels and non-fiction, as well as sometimes while watching the news. If you don't plan on doing those things though, then N2 might be enough.

Bokusenou Wrote:By "real life", if you mean only conversation, then you might be fine with N2. I see N1 grammar all the time when I read novels and non-fiction, as well as sometimes while watching the news. If you don't plan on doing those things though, then N2 might be enough.

Yes, thank you for clarifying. In terms of reading, I'll probably only be exposed to manga like Detective Conan
edit: In which case, if I plan on reading manga, what would you recommend? Still just fine with N2?

N1 is exactly like N2 and N3 in that there are grammar points that are almost exclusively used in written language. But there are many N1 grammar points that are used in spoken language. In a the first few pages of the Kanzen Master book I found をもって、といったところだ、ＸといいＸといい、きらいがある、ところを、くらいなら、ものを、手前, which are all common spoken Japanese. I've heard ところを almost daily while living in Japan because of working at a school (お忙しいところをすみません).

Anyway, the point is moot because at N2 level vocabulary and reading ability your Japanese is still pretty useless, and is certainly not business level in any meaningful sense of the word. N1 is still fairly basic when it comes down to it. I didn't find my conversations with people particularly meaningful when I was at N2 level.

Yeah, maybe even N3 if you don't include harder manga series like Monster. I've only taken N2 and N1, but I'm assuming N3 is a step down or two from N2. However your conversational topics might still be fairly limited to everyday life topics at N2.

I don't think anything on N2 will be irrelevant according to your definition. As for N1, it's not so clear cut. Some of the grammar is used relatively frequently, and some of it is very obscure. However, none of the tests will prepare you for business Japanese at all.

In any case, the grammar section is the easiest section on the test. Things like にもかかわらず, を問わず, そばから etc can be learned as easily as vocabulary. In terms of grammar, you'll spend way more time learning about particles, the passive, the causative, transitive/intransitive verbs, は/が etc than anything on N1.

The reason N1 is tough and requires a lot of study is because you need to be able to listen and read proficiently and quickly, and have the knowledge that goes with that. This is where you need to focus your studies, and I don't think the results are irrelevant.

jimeux Wrote:I don't think anything on N2 will be irrelevant according to your definition. As for N1, it's not so clear cut. Some of the grammar is used relatively frequently, and some of it is very obscure. However, none of the tests will prepare you for business Japanese at all.

In any case, the grammar section is the easiest section on the test. Things like にもかかわらず, を問わず, そばから etc can be learned as easily as vocabulary. In terms of grammar, you'll spend way more time learning about particles, the passive, the causative, transitive/intransitive verbs, は/が etc than anything on N1.

The reason N1 is tough and requires a lot of study is because you need to be able to listen and read proficiently and quickly, and have the knowledge that goes with that. This is where you need to focus your studies, and I don't think the results are irrelevant.

Up to which JLPT level grammar wise did/would you feel was sufficient for understanding most anime and drama audio, such as Detective Conan or Monster (assuming you have the vocab knowledge)