Being of an Arabic ethnicity and a Muslim I feel obliged to learn Arabic, as if i have no choice If there was a JLPT equivalent i guess i'd be around N2.

I'm thinking of studying Portuguese one of these days, also because I feel obliged to because of ethnicity. I wonder if I can find some dubbed anime in Portuguese...

N2 level in Arabic is pretty cool!

I go back and forth between studying German and Japanese, and just studying Japanese.

@Murtada, as a Muslim aren't you obligated to learn Arabic to read the Quaran?

RandomQuotes Wrote:@Murtada, as a Muslim aren't you obligated to learn Arabic to read the Quaran?

You're not obligated to learn Greek to read the New Testament are you ? The Quran has been translated in many languages.

I'm focused only on Japanese right now... but since I do it in English, which is not my first language, I guess you could say I'm laddering ?

I started studying German two months after starting Japanese, and it soon became my main language of study, and I hardly study Japanese anymore. This year, I've only watched about 10-20 hours of Jikkyos on Niko and read three books...

Linval Wrote:You're not obligated to learn Greek to read the New Testament are you ? The Quran has been translated in many languages.

I 'm aware that there are translations, but as I have been told by a few different people, including an Imam, that a translation is not the Quaran. The Quaran is only the Quran in Arabic.

RandomQuotes Wrote:

Linval Wrote:You're not obligated to learn Greek to read the New Testament are you ? The Quran has been translated in many languages.

I 'm aware that there are translations, but as I have been told by a few different people, including an Imam, that a translation is not the Quaran. The Quaran is only the Quran in Arabic.

I've never seen the romanization"Quaran", but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a thing, I'm not very knowledgeable in anything related to Islam.

My point was that being an ethnic Arab and / or a Muslim does not mean that you *have* to know Arabic, regardless of whether or not you are actually the religious type. It's an unfair expectation that robs many "aliens" (I don't like the term, but I'm not sure how to phrase it otherwise) of any sense of achievement about learning their "heritage" language.

But I'm just splitting hairs here. Don't mind me, I like rambling on unrelated subjects.

Whenever I see interesting words (from books, words rarely used), whether in my mother language, english or japanese, I study them. Not sure if counts.

I also need to get back to my chinese studies...

Italian (because I have to & I want to)
Swedish (because I have to & I kind of want to)

It's hard to find enough time for all three but I manage.

Linval Wrote:I've never seen the romanization"Quaran", but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a thing, I'm not very knowledgeable in anything related to Islam.

That's just me making a spelling mistake.

Linval Wrote:My point was that being an ethnic Arab and / or a Muslim does not mean that you *have* to know Arabic, regardless of whether or not you are actually the religious type. It's an unfair expectation that robs many "aliens" (I don't like the term, but I'm not sure how to phrase it otherwise) of any sense of achievement about learning their "heritage" language.

Islam is a region, there isn't such thing as an ethnic muslim, just like there isn't such thing as an ethnic shintoist. Being that a translation of the Qu'ran is not The Qu'ran, and the first part of the Islamic prayers HAVE to be in Arabic, I asked my question based specifically based on my knowledge of Islam. You'll notice I didn't refer to his ethnicity at all, because ethnicity doesn't mean language.

I'm afraid you misunderstood me.

RandomQuotes Wrote:Islam is a region, there isn't such thing as an ethnic muslim, just like there isn't such thing as an ethnic shintoist.

Exactly, which is why I wrote "an ethnic Arab and /or a Muslim", and not "an ethnic Muslim"

RandomQuotes Wrote:You'll notice I didn't refer to his ethnicity at all, because ethnicity doesn't mean language.

Which is, again, the whole point of my previous post.

I'm not sure why we're arguing ?

Linval Wrote:I'm not sure why we're arguing ?

Because you disagreed with this question:

RandomQuotes Wrote:@Murtada, as a Muslim aren't you obligated to learn Arabic to read the Qu'ran

by saying this:

Linval Wrote:You're not obligated to learn Greek to read the New Testament are you ? The Quran has been translated in many languages.

When I was asking specifically about a religious obligation, a Fard, if I remember the word correctly. Like if someone told me they were catholic, and I said something like, 'oh that means you have to go to confession, right'

RandomQuotes Wrote:When I was asking specifically about a religious obligation, a Fard, if I remember the word correctly. Like if someone told me they were catholic, and I said something like, 'oh that means you have to go to confession, right'

Well then sorry I got that part wrong, I was assuming you meant Muslim = speaks Arabic / should speak Arabic.

I'm not interested in discussing the intricacies of religious obligations, I don't know nearly enough about Islam to hold my own on the subject for very long anyway. I was rambling on another point --- namely about not assuming any language knowledge based on one's religion or ethnicity, because it's bad m'kay.

Linval Wrote:My point was that being an ethnic Arab and / or a Muslim does not mean that you *have* to know Arabic, regardless of whether or not you are actually the religious type. It's an unfair expectation that robs many "aliens" (I don't like the term, but I'm not sure how to phrase it otherwise) of any sense of achievement about learning their "heritage" language.

I can think of a few things that are even less fair or sensible about Islam than the expectation that Muslims learn Arabic.

It's religious superstition, it's not supposed to be fair or make sense. People who want sense give up religion, they don't try to make it sensible.

Stansfield123 Wrote:I can think of a few things that are even less fair or sensible about Islam than the expectation that Muslims learn Arabic.

It's religious superstition, it's not supposed to be fair or make sense. People who want sense give up religion, they don't try to make it sensible.

I don't mean to be rude, but this is so besides the point I was trying to make, it makes me wonder if people actually read what I wrote, and not just diagonally.

I was simply saying that one shouldn't automatically assume language knowledge based on one's ethnicity and / OR religion. That's it. Nothing more. I could just as easily have used the example of an ethnically Chinese adopted child raised in ... I don't know, Greenland, and make the very same point.

edit : typo

Studying Swedish, ultimately because Sweden used a religious crusade as an excuse to conquer Finland some 800 years ago.

I want to acquire a reading knowledge of Old English (Anglo Saxon) because I'm a native English speaker and I've all of Shakespeare's plays and most of Chaucer in the original Middle English.

English rocks!

Stansfield123 Wrote:

Linval Wrote:My point was that being an ethnic Arab and / or a Muslim does not mean that you *have* to know Arabic, regardless of whether or not you are actually the religious type. It's an unfair expectation that robs many "aliens" (I don't like the term, but I'm not sure how to phrase it otherwise) of any sense of achievement about learning their "heritage" language.

I can think of a few things that are even less fair or sensible about Islam than the expectation that Muslims learn Arabic.

It's religious superstition, it's not supposed to be fair or make sense. People who want sense give up religion, they don't try to make it sensible.

This post is about learning multiple languages, if you want to bash religion then kindly ***** off to an atheist forum. I came to this site because of my deep interest for the japanese language, the last thing I want is hateful religion bashing twats like you.

murtada Wrote:This post is about learning multiple languages, if you want to bash religion then kindly ***** off to an atheist forum. I came to this site because of my deep interest for the japanese language, the last thing I want is hateful religion bashing twats like you.

Ok, so I'm a twat. That's fine, nothing wrong with it as far as I'm concerned. I've certainly been called worse than my favorite human bodypart ever.

But I gotta draw the line somewhere. I need to at least be a nicely shaved twat. Well kept and easy to look at. Not totally unused, after all women have twats for a reason, but not some kind of loose twat either. A twat that's pleasured to sweet orgasm twice, maybe three times a week.

If you give me that, we're gonna get along just fine. In fact, you know what, I wanna be a lesbian twat. I don't want any kind of filthy manparts around me, just soft lips, thin, sensual fingers, and the occasional plastic accessory.

But other than that, it's all good. I'm totally a sweet, pink twat.

john555 Wrote:I want to acquire a reading knowledge of Old English (Anglo Saxon) because I'm a native English speaker and I've all of Shakespeare's plays and most of Chaucer in the original Middle English.

Shakespeare's great, you should read some right away, which you can because he wrote in early modern English. No need to study Old English to indulge in his writtings.

EratiK Wrote:

john555 Wrote:I want to acquire a reading knowledge of Old English (Anglo Saxon) because I'm a native English speaker and I've all of Shakespeare's plays and most of Chaucer in the original Middle English.

Shakespeare's great, you should read some right away, which you can because he wrote in early modern English. No need to study Old English to indulge in his writtings.

I did read all of Shakespeare's plays (38 in total) a few years ago.

What I meant was, Shakespeare has inspired me to learn Old English. Reading all of Shakespeare's plays in a concentrated period of time made me realize how wonderful the English language is, and what can be done with it in skilled hands.

One book I was looking at says in the introduction that "Shakespeare is the best writer of the English language. Period."

CHIRON
Thou hast undone our mother.
AARON
Villain, I have done thy mother.

One of the earliest "yo mamma" jokes in written history. Courtesy of Shakespeare ("Titus Andronicus" Act 4 Scene 2)

I was lucky enough to study some of Shakespeare's plays with an excellent teacher. Good times. The man's talent to weave toilet humor into the most dramatic scenes is remarkable.

Linval Wrote:CHIRON
Thou hast undone our mother.
AARON
Villain, I have done thy mother.

One of the earliest "yo mamma" jokes in written history. Courtesy of Shakespeare ("Titus Andronicus" Act 4 Scene 2)

I was lucky enough to study some of Shakespeare's plays with an excellent teacher. Good times. The man's talent to weave toilet humor into the most dramatic scenes is remarkable.

My Signet Classic edition of Titus Andronicus has the following helpful footnote to the above passage (in case the reader isn't sure):

done = had sexual intercourse with

Stansfield123 Wrote:

murtada Wrote:This post is about learning multiple languages, if you want to bash religion then kindly ***** off to an atheist forum. I came to this site because of my deep interest for the japanese language, the last thing I want is hateful religion bashing twats like you.

Ok, so I'm a twat. That's fine, nothing wrong with it as far as I'm concerned. I've certainly been called worse than my favorite human bodypart ever.

But I gotta draw the line somewhere. I need to at least be a nicely shaved twat. Well kept and easy to look at. Not totally unused, after all women have twats for a reason, but not some kind of loose twat either. A twat that's pleasured to sweet orgasm twice, maybe three times a week.

If you give me that, we're gonna get along just fine. In fact, you know what, I wanna be a lesbian twat. I don't want any kind of filthy manparts around me, just soft lips, thin, sensual fingers, and the occasional plastic accessory.

But other than that, it's all good. I'm totally a sweet, pink twat.

You have my apologies for telling you to ***** off and for calling you a "lesbian" twat, it was definitely uncalled for.You must have a talent for making people extremely uncomfortable with an imagination and vocabulary like that because you've won me over in that regard.

Well..came here because I thought this was a discussion about learning additional languages, not some kind of religion argument.

Gotta love forums.

Anyway, back on topic... I'm not learning it now but I'd like to learn French one day. I dunno why, I just kind of like how the language sounds I guess. But...I don't think I could learn more than one language at a time. Japanese is proving to be plenty difficult on its own.
Although, everything considered, it'd probably be more useful to learn Spanish...but it just doesn't reverberate with me the way Japanese and French do.