Long story short, I'm going into my final year of college (graduating a term early in March 2015) with a major in computer science and minors in Japanese and International Studies. My original plan to find a job in Japan was through a transnational corp. like Google, but during initial interviews I've been told to wait until I graduate due to the nature of how they handle visas, so that leaves me with BCF more or less if I want to secure a job in Japan before I graduate. I've taken about three years of Japanese (hence the minor) which I naively thought would be enough and have primarily focused on my CS skills but recently started taking the JLPT practice exams and I'd place myself somewhere between N3 and N4, which is clearly not N2 which is 'business Japanese' which 99% of the companies seemingly want. I think only LINE is looking for 'conversational Japanese' and IT folk based on my BCF searches.

BCF is coming up and I'd like to attend, but I'd also not like not to 'waste' money if I have no real shot of getting a job. Is it possible to emulate business Japanese without necessarily being N2 level (because it's probably impossible to make that N2 jump in ~70 days) such that I might actually have a chance at a job in Japan at this year's BCF? Resources people would recommend to help foster interview/business level Japanese? Is there some other job hunting resource I should use instead? I'm under the impression BCF is best as they are looking for students and online postings tend to look for mid-career professionals, so I probably have at best two shots at BCF...this year before I graduate and next year after I graduate...

I really want to punch myself in the face for not fostering my Japanese enough outside of class because I don't want to lie and say I have 'business Japanese' if I'm not N2, but I also really want to work in Japan, but focused too much on my CS skill set and not my Japanese...

I doubt your slightly less than ideal language skills are going to stop you from getting a programming job. I say go for it, you do have a chance.

You might want to look into Rakuten. They require zero Japanese (but prefer at least N4).

I am not too knowledgeable about the Boston Career Forum but what I have heard about it, it sounds like it's largely for Japanese people studying in America, not for Americans. So it could be quite difficult to get companies to pay attention to you at all, unless you have something special to offer.

For the companies that are open to hiring foreigners, demonstrating your competence in Computer Science might be more relevant to them than JLPT N2 ability. As far as compsci is concerned it sounds like there are, relatively speaking, more opportunities that don't require as much language competence (disclaimer: this is really only based off what I have heard over the years from talking to a handful of people, and my (two) summer internships in Japan - I might be completely off so I defer to any other forum members with more authority on the subject).

Flamerokz pretty much stated what needs to be said. BCF if for natives in the US that don't have the opportunity to perform the job hunt in Japan.

I'll pull out the anecdote that I always do with the BCF. I have a friend/acquittance that did his 4 year in Japan and has skills way above N1. He also brushed up on some of his keigo before going. His degree was business. Even with being pretty on par with most Japanese at the event, he still only got a few people that were interested in him and those jobs weren't anything he was even interested in.

So my opinion is that if you aren't interested in wasting the money, then it might not be worth it to go. I've been told again and again that there is a demand for foreign developers as they are seen as generally better, but I think the context of this statement is usually "developers w/ experience."

There are some companies in Japan that might look at you, and its worth checking them out, but I want to warn you OP that pay for developers is far below what is usually paid in the US (get on Daijob and check you'll see what I mean). For a company like Rakuten, a fresh grad would make at most $30-40k/year their first 6-12months there. Compare that to the $55-65k which is pretty common for junior dev positions around the US which any grad could probably get.

Your best bet would be to try at Daijob for "staff positions" or look at individual company sites and apply through there. You can probably pull it off if you keep at it. But don't put all your eggs in one basket, keep searching in your home country too.

PS: The line you were fed by Google and them about visas and graduation is kind of BS since many of the Eikaiwa/ALT companies will take students if they can supply proof that they will have graduated by time they leave for Japan. Try applying to Google 3-6 months in advance of graduating. Considering the way Google interviews, it may take about that long to just get through the process.

If you can, go to BCF just for the experience.
You'll get a better idea if how the system works and how
you could do better next time.

I also did a minor in Japanese. My classmate went to BCF during his final year and got a job as a mechanical engineer for Toyota. He wasn't Japanese or Asian.

vix86 Wrote:Flamerokz pretty much stated what needs to be said. BCF if for natives in the US that don't have the opportunity to perform the job hunt in Japan.

I'll pull out the anecdote that I always do with the BCF. I have a friend/acquittance that did his 4 year in Japan and has skills way above N1. He also brushed up on some of his keigo before going. His degree was business. Even with being pretty on par with most Japanese at the event, he still only got a few people that were interested in him and those jobs weren't anything he was even interested in.

So my opinion is that if you aren't interested in wasting the money, then it might not be worth it to go. I've been told again and again that there is a demand for foreign developers as they are seen as generally better, but I think the context of this statement is usually "developers w/ experience."

There are some companies in Japan that might look at you, and its worth checking them out, but I want to warn you OP that pay for developers is far below what is usually paid in the US (get on Daijob and check you'll see what I mean). For a company like Rakuten, a fresh grad would make at most $30-40k/year their first 6-12months there. Compare that to the $55-65k which is pretty common for junior dev positions around the US which any grad could probably get.

Your best bet would be to try at Daijob for "staff positions" or look at individual company sites and apply through there. You can probably pull it off if you keep at it. But don't put all your eggs in one basket, keep searching in your home country too.

PS: The line you were fed by Google and them about visas and graduation is kind of BS since many of the Eikaiwa/ALT companies will take students if they can supply proof that they will have graduated by time they leave for Japan. Try applying to Google 3-6 months in advance of graduating. Considering the way Google interviews, it may take about that long to just get through the process.

Haha yes, I'm well aware of how little the pay is in Japan for software engineers at BCF, which is odd given that the places where the companies are located (e.g. Tokyo) have some of the highest cost of living rankings in the world which is rather concerning for my GF since she wants to have 4 kids which I really don't think is possible in the Tokyo Metro area given all of the above. I will probably go and focus on the two foreign companies that are hiring SE (Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs) in the hopes of a more reasonable living salary and less of a chance of having to work 9am-8pm and a better chance of raises/increasing rank (e.g. no anti-foreigner mindset or Japanese style of seniority over skills mindset).

I'll definitely check out Daijobs too. It's really strange to me that the pay discrepancy between BCF and Daijob is so high, but I think it might have to do with Daijob being more mid-career professional oriented (although I managed to find a couple of positions that didn't require '3+ years of professional experience in X').

snarfel Wrote:Haha yes, I'm well aware of how little the pay is in Japan for software engineers at BCF, which is odd given that the places where the companies are located (e.g. Tokyo) have some of the highest cost of living rankings in the world which is rather concerning for my GF since she wants to have 4 kids which I really don't think is possible in the Tokyo Metro area given all of the above.

The discrepancy is somewhat softened by the fact that many employers kick in part of the cost of living. For instance, my wife's employer was paying a train pass that was good for getting to/from work and also half of the rent on her apartment. I'm of the understanding that this is typical of many japanese employers for career type jobs at least. Others with more experience will probably be able to add to this.

snarfel Wrote:the places where the companies are located (e.g. Tokyo) have some of the highest cost of living rankings in the world

Thus people get by with less space and no cars. While a family in the midwest might have a 2,000 sq. ft. house with two or more cards a family in Tokyo might have half to a quarter of that space and zero or one car. The cost of staples aren't all that different especially if you ignore specific goods and foods in favor of local substitutes.

snarfel Wrote:the two foreign companies that are hiring SE (Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs) in the hopes of a more reasonable living salary and less of a chance of having to work 9am-8pm and a better chance of raises/increasing rank (e.g. no anti-foreigner mindset or Japanese style of seniority over skills mindset).

You will be fairly disappointed if you think this is the case. The hours are extremely long for new hires and those that rise the fastest in the Tokyo offices are still the native bilinguals. However after a few years at either company you can jump ship to a more reasonable company. (Finance companies being brutal the first couple of years isn't really unique to Japan of course.) I've known two guys who have done this and have excellent work, life, and salary balance.

snarfel Wrote:I'll definitely check out Daijobs too. It's really strange to me that the pay discrepancy between BCF and Daijob is so high, but I think it might have to do with Daijob being more mid-career professional oriented (although I managed to find a couple of positions that didn't require '3+ years of professional experience in X').

Always remember that "X years of exp" is HR speak. Even junior spots tend to be worded with lots of "must have X years of Y."

Also as tokyostyle pointed out. Don't put your hopes too high on work hours even at international companies. The management at many of these companies is still going to be Japanese most of the time. Just view it as time to get experience and then hop to a new position.

tokyostyle Wrote:

snarfel Wrote:the places where the companies are located (e.g. Tokyo) have some of the highest cost of living rankings in the world

Thus people get by with less space and no cars. While a family in the midwest might have a 2,000 sq. ft. house with two or more cards a family in Tokyo might have half to a quarter of that space and zero or one car. The cost of staples aren't all that different especially if you ignore specific goods and foods in favor of local substitutes.

snarfel Wrote:the two foreign companies that are hiring SE (Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs) in the hopes of a more reasonable living salary and less of a chance of having to work 9am-8pm and a better chance of raises/increasing rank (e.g. no anti-foreigner mindset or Japanese style of seniority over skills mindset).

You will be fairly disappointed if you think this is the case. The hours are extremely long for new hires and those that rise the fastest in the Tokyo offices are still the native bilinguals. However after a few years at either company you can jump ship to a more reasonable company. (Finance companies being brutal the first couple of years isn't really unique to Japan of course.) I've known two guys who have done this and have excellent work, life, and salary balance.

So for not new hires (3+ years with the company?) do the hours get more 'reasonable' hence negating the need to find a more reasonable company, (potentially Amazon, Microsoft, or Google?). Not sure what companies are reasonable that hire SE given GS and MS are transnational but the work culture in Japan is still Japanese from the sounds of it.

Tokyo may be more expensive for floor space (is that right?) than London/NY but I think the number of smaller-sized properties is greater so it's easier to live in the center of Tokyo compared to the other two I think.

Go into the finance industry (or at least avoid Japanese companies) if you want fair entry-level wages. If you have trouble with finding a job with your current abilities, do a Masters in Japan first.

tokyostyle Wrote:

snarfel Wrote:the two foreign companies that are hiring SE (Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs) in the hopes of a more reasonable living salary and less of a chance of having to work 9am-8pm and a better chance of raises/increasing rank (e.g. no anti-foreigner mindset or Japanese style of seniority over skills mindset).

You will be fairly disappointed if you think this is the case. The hours are extremely long for new hires and those that rise the fastest in the Tokyo offices are still the native bilinguals. However after a few years at either company you can jump ship to a more reasonable company. (Finance companies being brutal the first couple of years isn't really unique to Japan of course.)

I don't think it really matters if you're native or not as long as you can speak Japanese　and integrate with the group ... there's plenty of western senior management in global finance companies' Japan offices.

snarfel Wrote:So for not new hires (3+ years with the company?) do the hours get more 'reasonable' hence negating the need to find a more reasonable company, (potentially Amazon, Microsoft, or Google?). Not sure what companies are reasonable that hire SE given GS and MS are transnational but the work culture in Japan is still Japanese from the sounds of it.

Glassdoor use it on transnational companies. Restrict to Japan when you look up companies. The company reviews can give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

I agree with others that the odds are against you at BCF. Although just anecdotal, one of my friends recently applied online to a SE position at Rakuten and was hired. New full-time employees (正社員) enter the company twice a year: October (mostly foreigners) and March (mostly Japanese). My friend didn't even major in CS, but a coding-heavy science field (computational biology and bioinformatics). So it might be worth looking into other science/engineering-related positions too.

I had considered applying to Rakuten my self honestly, but looking at their Glassdoor page, I wasn't too impressed with what I heard about it. Plus, I wasn't impressed with the 40k a year salary that people start out with. That would make sense to me if the person had 0 coding experience but if you know multiple languages, understand data structures/algorithms; then the pay just isn't justifiable.

EDIT: Did your friend apply to Rakuten from outside Japan?

Yes, my friend applied from the U.S. Considering that my friend graduated from a university whose name rhymes with a trendy, green superfood, I'm almost certain the primary reason for taking the position is that it's a job in... Japan...!